Let's Get Political!

[swindonmaniac]

It's what we as a nation voted for, even if it is a fucking mess created by liars and self-regarding cretins, it's what we voted for. Caveat emptor.

Couldn't agree more !.

[pauld]

In the meantime we would be able to make our own laws and fuck of all non-british murderers/rapists/ muggers/multi offenders who shelter under the big soft Britain umbrella. 

You are going to be so bitterly disappointed by how little difference leaving the EU makes to our compliance to international human rights legislation

[swindonmaniac]

You are going to be so bitterly disappointed by how little difference leaving the EU makes to our compliance to international human rights legislation

Probably true,  but how can things get worse ?, We're currently the laughing stock of Europe.

[horlock07]

We are an international laughing stock. #takingbackcontrol

In case there was any doubt in this....

[swindonmaniac]

In case there was any doubt in this....

      must admit I like the boobs on the bit of stuff in white in the last clip.

[Ardiles]

Exactly,  100% correct.  This whole affair is fucking doing my head in.   
Fuck the million+ people that have signed a petition to stop Brexit.   17.4 MILLION people voted to get out, don't they have any rights ?.
How many people vote for a certain government in the general elections,  then find they are not the party they thought they were. Don't ever recall such backlash when the voters decide they didn't know what they were voting for.
I voted to get out,   I don't give a fuck how we get out,  let's just do it.    And before anyone starts on about the economics,  how much money has been wasted in the last three years ?.   Ok, so life maybe harder initially,  and it may take a few years but I'm sure as a country we would bounce back.   In the meantime we would be able to make our own laws and fuck of all non-british murderers/rapists/ muggers/multi offenders who shelter under the big soft Britain umbrella.  Sorry, but IMO the time has come to do what the majority voted for,  stop bowing down to Brussels, Bercow and the rest of the whinging remainers.

This is the problem.  Politicians have not yet worked out how to take the UK out of the EU without putting jobs and businesses at risk.  And neither, by your own admission above, have you.  Throwing your hands up in the air and saying 'Fuck it, I haven't got a clue how to do this in a sensible way, but let's just do it anyway' might work for you.  But there is nothing to suggest that this is a majority view.

Add in to the mix the polling evidence that suggests that the slender Leave majority in 2016 has now evaporated and that Brexit in any form is now supported by approx 46% of the voting population, the argument for jumping off the cliff with your eyes shut and your fingers crossed behind your back isn't very strong at all.

[horlock07]

Add in to the mix the polling evidence that suggests that the slender Leave majority in 2016 has now evaporated and that Brexit in any form is now supported by approx 46% of the voting population, the argument for jumping off the cliff with your eyes shut and your fingers crossed behind your back isn't very strong at all.

John Curtice (who a lot of Brexiteers were putting great weight to when his results suited them) is now suggesting that things have drifted to remain rather more than previously thought, so frankly who knows (or indeed really cares) anymore.

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1110443949775298562

[swindonmaniac]

This is the problem.  Politicians have not yet worked out how to take the UK out of the EU without putting jobs and businesses at risk.  And neither, by your own admission above, have you.  Throwing your hands up in the air and saying 'Fuck it, I haven't got a clue how to do this in a sensible way, but let's just do it anyway' might work for you.  But there is nothing to suggest that this is a majority view.

Add in to the mix the polling evidence that suggests that the slender Leave majority in 2016 has now evaporated and that Brexit in any form is now supported by approx 46% of the voting population, the argument for jumping off the cliff with your eyes shut and your fingers crossed behind your back isn't very strong at all.

Understand what you are saying,  but we did not vote to which way we would leave,  we voted to leave.
As per my second paragraph,   why should the minofity be able to stall  the majorities decision, surely this is unheard of in politics.
If this all goes tits up, as it seems it may do,  I will never vote again,  democracy no longer seems to work in this country.

[Ardiles]

I take your point, and get the frustration.  But I don't have any answers.  (And I sincerely believe that jumping off the proverbial cliff isn't an answer.)

Ideally, I guess we'd have had the consensus-building approach I mentioned a few posts back.  Then, we might have arrived quickly (or more quickly) at a Brexit plan that could get passed.  But it didn't happen that way.  The Tories have, instead, attempted to push through a Brexit plan that very few others outside their party could get behind...with neither a decisive voting margin in the 2016 vote or a majority government.  Given that, there was bound to be resistance all along the way.

[swindonmaniac]

I take your point, and get the frustration.  But I don't have any answers.  (And I sincerely believe that jumping off the proverbial cliff isn't an answer.)

Ideally, I guess we'd have had the consensus-building approach I mentioned a few posts back.  Then, we might have arrived quickly (or more quickly) at a Brexit plan that could get passed.  But it didn't happen that way.  The Tories have, instead, attempted to push through a Brexit plan that very few others outside their party could get behind...with neither a decisive voting margin in the 2016 vote or a majority government.  Given that, there was bound to be resistance all along the way.

Fair points,  like yourself I have no idea what the answer is but I said before,  l just want it done with,  probably like millions of others !.

[pauld]

Probably true,  but how can things get worse ?, We're currently the laughing stock of Europe.

We are indeed, but not because of our human rights policy (which is, apparently, why you voted Brexit even though most of this legislation is in UK law because we signed up to the International Convention on Human Rights, not because of our membership of the EU), but because of the solution that you propose for it - Brexit.

[pauld]

Add in to the mix the polling evidence that suggests that the slender Leave majority in 2016 has now evaporated and that Brexit in any form is now supported by approx 46% of the voting population, the argument for jumping off the cliff with your eyes shut and your fingers crossed behind your back isn't very strong at all.

tbf, the polls in 2016 didn't predict a Leave victory so don't know that relying on the evidence of the polls really tells you how people would actually vote if given the chance again

[donkey]

Last night's results:

No Deal - Con in favour, Lab not
Common Market 2.0 - Lab in favour, Con not
EEA/EFTA - Both not in favour
Customs Union - Lab in favour, Con not
Labour's Plan - Lab in favour, Con not
Revoke A50 - Lab in favour, Con not
Public Vote - Lab in favour, Con not
Contingent Pref Arrangement - Con in favour, Lab not.

[Ardiles]

tbf, the polls in 2016 didn't predict a Leave victory so don't know that relying on the evidence of the polls really tells you how people would actually vote if given the chance again

I get that.  And opinion polls are obviously different in status to the 2016 referendum.  Just trying to make the point that either side is on shaky ground when trying to argue that they represent the ‘will of the people’.  The truth is that, as a country, we’re hopelessly divided on this.  You’ll never get this over the line by trying to impose a hardline solution that favours one extreme or the other, because it will be far to far from the centre of gravity of public opinion and there will be too much opposition to that.

Instead, try to find a balanced approach that a majority can coalesce around.  Theresa May was always a Tory 1st and a national leader 2nd.  (One columnist described her as 'Tory to her fingertips', which I thought was a good way of putting it.)  She has put her own party first and the country 2nd every step of the way, so that kind of approach was always going to be beyond her instincts & abilities.

[Reg Smeeton]

We are indeed, but not because of our human rights policy (which is, apparently, why you voted Brexit even though most of this legislation is in UK law because we signed up to the International Convention on Human Rights, not because of our membership of the EU), but because of the solution that you propose for it - Brexit.

Many Brexiteers conflate ECHR with ECJ.

 Maniac, as a point of informatioin, the ECJ is in place to settle matters of EU legislation, between EU countries.  ECHR, we essentially were responsible for forming  at the end of WW11, in order to try and prevent future genocides and fascist regimes getting free reign.

Logically if we're out of the EU then you'd think ECJ rulings would lapse..... however if we want to do deals with other EU countries those deals will still be susceptible to ECJ rulings.... in other words we can't enter into illegal dealings with other EU countries just because we want to...