Let's Get Political!

[Legends-Lounge]

Italy is a bad example.  They've been in kick the sandals off and chill mode since the fall of the Roman Empire, barring a brief flirtation with Fascism.

A bad example? No, an example. Everyone’s own differing opinions will decide whether it is a good or bad example. Wait till their financial situation implodes, then you’ll see the real Italy.

[Reg Smeeton]

A bad example? No, an example. Everyone’s own differing opinions will decide whether it is a good or bad example. Wait till their financial situation implodes, then you’ll see the real Italy.

It's tricky to know what the real Italy is, after all it's only existed for a couple of hundred years and in it's early years under Garibaldi had to fight to maintain integrity, from Austrian and French occupation.

Garibaldi though was popular in GB, for his internationalism and socialist outlook, (socialism with a small s)

He ws so popular in GB that we named a biscuit after him.   Garibaldi, was also a believer that European unity was the way forward, a situation that still applies in Italy today.

[donkey]

Next time there is a vote here what happens when neither of them get any?

We get Finland?

[Legends-Lounge]

It's tricky to know what the real Italy is, after all it's only existed for a couple of hundred years and in it's early years under Garibaldi had to fight to maintain integrity, from Austrian and French occupation.

Garibaldi though was popular in GB, for his internationalism and socialist outlook, (socialism with a small s)

He ws so popular in GB that we named a biscuit after him.   Garibaldi, was also a believer that European unity was the way forward, a situation that still applies in Italy today.

I’m not sure I agree with your last sentence. Have you read Yanis Varoufakis ‘and the weak suffer what they must’? Or his other tome ‘adults in the room’?

[Reg Smeeton]

I’m not sure I agree with your last sentence.

Doubtless there are many in Italy, who see unity as involving right wing populists, but they still see things in a European context.  So we see Salvini, cuddling up to Orban, and the Polish Law and Justice Party, with an agenda to move the EU to the right.

[Legends-Lounge]

Doubtless there are many in Italy, who see unity as involving right wing populists, but they still see things in a European context.  So we see Salvini, cuddling up to Orban, and the Polish Law and Justice Party, with an agenda to move the EU to the right.

I strongly suggest you read the two books I mentioned. I doubt you will and if indeed you do I also doubt you’ll change your opinion on the EU.

Honda like Airbus have backed the wrong horse in global business terms. Airbus with the 380 and Honda with their tired long in the tooth civic C/W the demise of Diesel engines.

[Reg Smeeton]

I strongly suggest you read the two books I mentioned. I doubt you will and if indeed you do I also doubt you’ll change your opinion on the EU.

If you read my musings on this subject over the years, you'll have seen that I've always been ambivalent about the EU... aware of its flaws as an organisation and the UK role in it.

Our membership has always been a bone of contention in both main parties... indeed I go back to the days of Francis Noel Baker as Swindon MP.... an individual with the sort of back story, that it just isn't possible to have any longer... he quit Labour due to it's platform of opposition to the EU (as was)   That position is still held by many on the left including Corbyn.

Come the ref initially instinctively I swung that way, but ultimately voted remain, thinking of future generations not only in the UK but Europe.  Whilst I get the Lexit position, that to create an environment for the radical change required, you need to break up the pillars that sustain neoliberal capitalism like the EU... it is a somewhat utopian view, as part of the EU story has been about keeping the lid on fascism and conflict which has traditionally found fertile ground in many European countries.

In the 2 and half years since the ref.... I've paid very close attention to the arguments, and my presentl feeling is that Brexit isn't suddenly going to crash th eeconomy, but rather it'll be a slow puncture, like with Honda, economic factors for decisions, not helped by Brexit, as future planning comes into the pipeline.

[RedRag]

Honda like Airbus have backed the wrong horse in global business terms. Airbus with the 380 and Honda with their tired long in the tooth civic C/W the demise of Diesel engines.

Seem to have been quite a few who have "backed the wrong horse in global terms". 

Just in the last month:

Honda, Nissan, Ford, JLR, Schaeffler, Airbus, P&O, AXA, Bupa, Prudential, Barclays, Bank of America, UBS, Credit Suisse, Hitachi, Toshiba, Dyson, Panasonic, Sony, Phillips.

I think your "wrong horse" might just be the Unicorn Kingdom.

[Pax Romana]

They won't of course, but the seven should resign and fight their seats as independents or whatever.

When this has happened in the past there has usually been at least a degree of justification that something has changed significantly since the election.

Not this time. Corbyn was in charge with the current labour manifesto.  Their seven constituency electorates were therefore presumably happy with the leader and the policies which may make them very misguided but that was their prerogative.  If the MPs didn't support that leadership or those policies then they shouldn't have stood on the labour ticket.

Hatton is back in the fold so at least that makes the score 7-1.

[pauld]

They won't of course, but the seven should resign and fight their seats as independents or whatever.

Completely agree. But as you say, they won't because they know they'd lose. However a few of their constituencies, such as Angela "funny tinge" Smith, are tight enough that they might scrape enough votes to split the Labour vote and let the Tories in.

[Sir red ken]

Guardian today say 10,000 jobs will be lost because of the Honda,Brexit related closure, of the Swindon factory.

[Reg Smeeton]

Guardian today say 10,000 jobs will be lost because of the Honda,Brexit related closure, of the Swindon factory.

It's reckoned that 1 Honda job supports about 4 supply chain jobs etc. Not all the losses will be in Swindon

[Batch]

It's reckoned that 1 Honda job supports about 4 supply chain jobs etc. Not all the losses will be in Swindon

Indded. But a fair few are local. 400 workers sent home from the seat manufacturers in Highworth today.

[bathford]

Guardian today say 10,000 jobs will be lost because of the Honda,Brexit related closure, of the Swindon factory.

My son works at Honda and this has nothing to do with Brexit. This is down to the downturn in Diesel sales linked to over capacity across Europe. Purely for political reasons, the European manufacturers will not cut back production. This stance is supported by their governments who don't want to see redundancies. Their unions would shut their countries down if they tried it.

[Batch]

what % of Honda produced in Swindon are diesel? genuine q, saw a claim it was 17% earlier.

Not that it negates the point of over capacity in general, protectionism in Japan and yes cost of production of future models must be a factor too