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Author Topic: Let's Get Political!  (Read 1996593 times)
kerry red

« Reply #630 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 16:27:45 »

If there were to ever be an English National Party they would be branded right wing racists.

It's OK for these poxy hanger-on countries to play the nationalism card but woe betide if we English did the same.
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Ardiles

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« Reply #631 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 16:43:33 »

...and the reason for that, quite clearly, is that there is massive asymmetry in the UK.  There are 10 of us (assuming, like me, that you're English) to every one of them.  It's a problem, because Scots (and Welsh and Northern Irish) can quite justifiably claim to having their wishes over-ridden almost all of the time by the English.  And that's yet another reason why so many Scots are now getting excited by the prospect that they're going to be HEARD.  At last!

My own personal solution to the problem - which I know would not be welcomed by everyone - is to federalise the UK.  But not purely along national (England, Scotland, Wales, NI) lines, because that would not deal with the asymmetry problem.  You would also have to regionalise England in to units roughly equal in size to Scotland...and the EU has already done that for us:



In a UK Federal Parliament, representatives from Scotland would be able to find common cause on many issues with representatives from the more left-leaning regions of England.  And they would not feel outvoted on everything by a block of 54 million English voters.  A lot of English voters would not like the regionalisation, I know.  But I think something like this needs to happen if the union is going to continue.
« Last Edit: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 16:45:24 by Ardiles » Logged
Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #632 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 16:52:15 »

^

You've left out Gibraltar, which is part of the South West. 
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janaage
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« Reply #633 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 17:22:13 »

So why didn't the fuckers vote YES in the referendum and do us all a favour?

If they're going to return wall to wall SNP MPs they obviously didn't have the bollocks to sever ties with the old nanny.

Shaggers

Fucking hell are you that thick that you can't separate the independance vote and voting SNP at the GE.

Fair play to Ardiles for putting some effort into his thinking.
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Hammer

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« Reply #634 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 17:37:16 »

Fucking hell are you that thick that you can't spell independance

 

Independence. It's independence.

Sorted for you Audrey.     
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Red Frog
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« Reply #635 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 17:46:35 »

...and the reason for that, quite clearly, is that there is massive asymmetry in the UK.  There are 10 of us (assuming, like me, that you're English) to every one of them.  It's a problem, because Scots (and Welsh and Northern Irish) can quite justifiably claim to having their wishes over-ridden almost all of the time by the English.  And that's yet another reason why so many Scots are now getting excited by the prospect that they're going to be HEARD.  At last!

My own personal solution to the problem - which I know would not be welcomed by everyone - is to federalise the UK.  But not purely along national (England, Scotland, Wales, NI) lines, because that would not deal with the asymmetry problem.  You would also have to regionalise England in to units roughly equal in size to Scotland...and the EU has already done that for us:



In a UK Federal Parliament, representatives from Scotland would be able to find common cause on many issues with representatives from the more left-leaning regions of England.  And they would not feel outvoted on everything by a block of 54 million English voters.  A lot of English voters would not like the regionalisation, I know.  But I think something like this needs to happen if the union is going to continue.

Best post of the debate to date. Who said nothing good comes from the EU? (Which is, incidentally, one reason why this will probably never be adopted…)
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jonny72

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« Reply #636 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 17:48:23 »

Cameron needs to make his mind up.  Either he's a unionist, or he's not.  The Scots were told repeatedly - by Cameron and others - in the build up to the referendum last September that they were valued members of the union who should help shape the UK.  Like it or not, many of them are voting SNP precisely in order to make themselves heard.  So which is it?  Dave is flip-flopping big time.

At the time of the referendum, there were all sorts of promises from Cameron, and to be fair it was a result of the last minute Brown led intervention, about Devo Max.  Cameron promptly reneged, and raised the flag of English nationalism for party convenience, with his attempt to shaft Labour, over having Scottish MP's.....he will now in some form or other pay the price....

Did I miss something? How did Cameron renege on the deal that was offered to Scotland? How is he flip-flopping?

The SNP are the ones that reneged, they made it clear the referendum was a once in a generation opportunity, yet within minutes of them losing they were already working on other ways to gain independence asap.

His opposition to the SNP and them having a place in government is that they are anti-Union and their sole interest in being part of a Labour led coalition is to break up the Union. Don't see how him being anti-SNP means he's against Scottish people having a voice, or even Scottish MP's being part of government.

The only way I can see us preventing a break up of the Union is going federal, but unfortunately neither Labour or the Tories are interested in that option.
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Red Frog
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« Reply #637 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 17:52:15 »

The only way I can see us preventing a break up of the Union is going federal, but unfortunately neither Labour or the Tories are interested in that option.

Yet. As you yourself pointed out (and Harold Wilson before you), a week is a long time in politics.
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Tout ce que je sais de plus sūr ą propos de la moralité et des obligations des hommes, c'est au football que je le dois. - Albert Camus
THE FLASH

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« Reply #638 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 18:33:40 »

BBC journo on radio 4 in swindon tonight.

To Merlin Landlord: "Who do you think will win tomorrow?".

Landlord: "Swindon, as they are playing Sheffield United".

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Ardiles

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« Reply #639 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 18:35:51 »

Did I miss something? How did Cameron renege on the deal that was offered to Scotland? How is he flip-flopping?

The SNP are the ones that reneged, they made it clear the referendum was a once in a generation opportunity, yet within minutes of them losing they were already working on other ways to gain independence asap.

His opposition to the SNP and them having a place in government is that they are anti-Union and their sole interest in being part of a Labour led coalition is to break up the Union. Don't see how him being anti-SNP means he's against Scottish people having a voice, or even Scottish MP's being part of government.

The only way I can see us preventing a break up of the Union is going federal, but unfortunately neither Labour or the Tories are interested in that option.

I won't disagree with any of the points you make.  But in answer to your question, one minute he (Cameron) is telling the Scots that they're an integral part of the UK and that they should play a pivotal part in shaping its future; and the next he's portraying the expression of their democratic wishes as an apocalypse.  (Don't know about you, but the strongest theme that I have picked up on from the Tory campaign is the aversion to a Labour/SNP tie up.)

In my book, that's a flip-flop of epic proportions.  If he wants the Scots to remain in the UK, he has to treat them as grown ups (as he said he would before the Referendum).
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pauld
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« Reply #640 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 18:37:08 »

Don't see how him being anti-SNP means he's against Scottish people having a voice, or even Scottish MP's being part of government.
Because the SNP are going to take Scotland by a landslide if the polls are even half right so by definition he's set his face against the voice of the Scottish people and pre-declared he's opposed to their MPs being part of government
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kerry red

« Reply #641 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 18:49:06 »

Independence. It's independence.

Sorted for you Audrey.     

Fucking big touche !
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jonny72

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« Reply #642 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 18:59:18 »

Because the SNP are going to take Scotland by a landslide if the polls are even half right so by definition he's set his face against the voice of the Scottish people and pre-declared he's opposed to their MPs being part of government

Not sure how that is any different to the SNP being willing to do anything to block a Tory government.
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Arriba

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« Reply #643 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 18:59:35 »

If I was Scottish I'd vote snp. Hardly surprising they are doing so well up there. As an Englishman and resident I would like some of the benefits they already get that we dont.

Gonna be close overall and I reckon Swindon will be split, Tories winning the north and Labour the south.
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@mwooly63

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« Reply #644 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 18:59:46 »

BBC journo on radio 4 in swindon tonight.

To Merlin Landlord: "Who do you think will win tomorrow?".

Landlord: "Swindon, as they are playing Sheffield United".



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