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Author Topic: Let's Get Political!  (Read 1996427 times)
RobertT

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« Reply #420 on: Friday, April 3, 2015, 20:30:07 »

I remember the last EU referendum, being in 1975...so your old man must have been very young.  At the time Labour was opposed to membership, after all it was the Tories who'd taken us in, under the much maligned by the Thatcherites, Edward Heath.

I thought of Heath just recently when in Salisbury, as he used to live on the Green, and there were always armed coppers, outside his house....of course no longer.  I digress, for me the thing with Heath, was that he'd fought in WW2 in Europe, and so had witnessed first hand, what happens when European powers do not co-operate. Churchill himself, had been an advocate of a European Union.

Labour opposed, as it was believed the EU would be a construct to the benefit of bankers and bosses, with working conditions suffering.  When this proved not to be the case that opposition dropped.

In or Out Reg?  I'm all for it, in fact I'd give up the Pound, but I know my view is probably the minority.  Alongside it, you probably need less National Govt structures and more regional set-ups to make it fully work.  I accept the likely long term end is out, then back in, sort of, and so on.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #421 on: Friday, April 3, 2015, 20:34:03 »

Can we have a political thread that doesn't involve Ironside and Paul (Okay, not Paul at the moment, but I'm sure he's firing himself up...) posting text walls at eachother about how their side makes everyone free cakes and the other side punches babies please? It's tiresome and you're about as likely to change eachothers' minds as you are to turn into pumpkins.

Ironside...Baby Punching Party. 1

Davis.....Free Cake Party. 23,869.
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Ironside
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« Reply #422 on: Friday, April 3, 2015, 20:34:12 »

How am I not taking responsibility for myself currently then? I'd argue I am taking my responsibilities seriously enough and who are you to conclude I'm not, and how?
Well, you have blind hatred for Thatcher, who hasn't been Prime Minister for over 25 years, keep blaming her for everything. Full stop. It's all her fault. It's pretty weird when you think about it, I mean, you were only '4 years old'.

Still, you've declared yourself for Labour earlier in this thread and elsewhere on here, which is fair enough because it's not as if you've even actually thought about it, researched the facts, and drawn an informed conclusion to base your allegiance on, is it? It's clear, based on your post's, you're a tribal voter and not a considered voter.

Do you have constructive proposals or solutions to the very real problems facing this country?
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Genius, Gentleman Explorer, French Cabaret Chantoose  and Small Bets Placed and someone who knows who they are changed my signature but its only know that I can be arsed to change it....and I mean all the spelling mistakes.

Was it me? It can't have been an interesting enough event for me to remember - fB.
Ironside
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« Reply #423 on: Friday, April 3, 2015, 20:36:34 »

I remember the last EU referendum, being in 1975...so your old man must have been very young.  At the time Labour was opposed to membership, after all it was the Tories who'd taken us in, under the much maligned by the Thatcherites, Edward Heath.

I thought of Heath just recently when in Salisbury, as he used to live on the Green, and there were always armed coppers, outside his house....of course no longer.  I digress, for me the thing with Heath, was that he'd fought in WW2 in Europe, and so had witnessed first hand, what happens when European powers do not co-operate. Churchill himself, had been an advocate of a European Union.

Labour opposed, as it was believed the EU would be a construct to the benefit of bankers and bosses, with working conditions suffering.  When this proved not to be the case that opposition dropped.

He informes me he missed the cut by 6 weeks and 3 days.

The rest of that post is irrelevant and superfluous.
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Genius, Gentleman Explorer, French Cabaret Chantoose  and Small Bets Placed and someone who knows who they are changed my signature but its only know that I can be arsed to change it....and I mean all the spelling mistakes.

Was it me? It can't have been an interesting enough event for me to remember - fB.
Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #424 on: Friday, April 3, 2015, 20:36:48 »

In or Out Reg?  I'm all for it, in fact I'd give up the Pound, but I know my view is probably the minority.  Alongside it, you probably need less National Govt structures and more regional set-ups to make it fully work.  I accept the likely long term end is out, then back in, sort of, and so on.

I'm in. Definitely a case for reform, as it's not perfect.
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Arriba

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« Reply #425 on: Friday, April 3, 2015, 20:47:21 »

Well, you have blind hatred for Thatcher, who hasn't been Prime Minister for over 25 years, keep blaming her for everything. Full stop. It's all her fault. It's pretty weird when you think about it, I mean, you were only '4 years old'.

Still, you've declared yourself for Labour earlier in this thread and elsewhere on here, which is fair enough because it's not as if you've even actually thought about it, researched the facts, and drawn an informed conclusion to base your allegiance on, is it? It's clear, based on your post's, you're a tribal voter and not a considered voter.

Do you have constructive proposals or solutions to the very real problems facing this country?
Herthab has it right. Pointless debating with you. Your inaccurate conclusions about me and abuse mean we can't really go anywhere with this can we?
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Ironside
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« Reply #426 on: Friday, April 3, 2015, 21:05:38 »

Herthab has it right. Pointless debating with you. Your inaccurate conclusions about me and abuse mean we can't really go anywhere with this can we?
Why did you give us your sob-story and not answer any of the questions I posed in my post then?
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Genius, Gentleman Explorer, French Cabaret Chantoose  and Small Bets Placed and someone who knows who they are changed my signature but its only know that I can be arsed to change it....and I mean all the spelling mistakes.

Was it me? It can't have been an interesting enough event for me to remember - fB.
Arriba

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« Reply #427 on: Friday, April 3, 2015, 21:14:11 »

Why did you give us your sob-story and not answer any of the questions I posed in my post then?
Sob story? Nah mate just a life experience.
I answered the first question you asked. I then asked you some questions which you ignored, so why should I continue to answer questions for you? particularly when you've been deliberately insulting and made some ridiculous conclusions that mean whatever I say is irrelevant anyway.
« Last Edit: Friday, April 3, 2015, 21:16:37 by arriba » Logged
Ironside
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« Reply #428 on: Friday, April 3, 2015, 22:08:46 »

Sob story? Nah mate just a life experience.
I answered the first question you asked. I then asked you some questions which you ignored, so why should I continue to answer questions for you? particularly when you've been deliberately insulting and made some ridiculous conclusions that mean whatever I say is irrelevant anyway.

Yep, sob story, it's all Maggie's fault.

The only question's you asked we're relevant to my criticism of you and not  relevant to the question of the wellbeing of the economy which, as I made clear in my original post, is the bottom line.

How about giving us some solutions instead of bleating on about how hard done you are? Which party do you think provide a solution and why?
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Genius, Gentleman Explorer, French Cabaret Chantoose  and Small Bets Placed and someone who knows who they are changed my signature but its only know that I can be arsed to change it....and I mean all the spelling mistakes.

Was it me? It can't have been an interesting enough event for me to remember - fB.
jonny72

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« Reply #429 on: Friday, April 3, 2015, 22:58:36 »

It's funny people putting Thatcher down and saying they'd never vote for the Tories. Fact is that the main thrust of Thatcher's polices have now become the norm and adopted by Labour as much as the Tories - low personal taxes, a reduced state, privatisation for example. The current Labour party are as much a relation to the Thatcher Tory era as the current Tories are.

As regards the migrant worker debate. My experience is that migrant workers (especially those from Eastern Europe) work harder, don't moan and don't take the piss like their British counterparts do. The problem isn't the migrant workers, it's the British workers who need to stop relying on everything being handed to them on a plate and do some proper hard work instead.
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Honkytonk

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« Reply #430 on: Saturday, April 4, 2015, 00:49:48 »

We've got a pretty high number of eastern Europeans in our area,  considering we're in the middle of the countryside,  and frankly there are zero problems with them.  They work their arses off and I would be highly surprised if they are a meaningful percentage of people who claim benefits.

Yes there are people who take the piss.  But they always exist no matter what their nationality is. I could name two dozen or so 'native brits' who do fuck all work and yet are always in the pub buying ten or twelve pints on a regular basis. What fucks me off is that I, and others like me are working out collective arses off serving them , and part of my wage is essentially going to fund their habit. I don't see why in this day and age benefits (universal as they now are)  couldn't be stuck on a card of some description that won't accept a transaction including non-essentials. The dole is there to pay the rent and put food in people's mouths, not to buy them fags and booze.

I have been on the dole and I am happy to pay back into it now I'm making some half-decent money. The benefits system and the NHS are both brilliant things that need protecting. Reform,  probably, but protection,  definitely.
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otanswell

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« Reply #431 on: Saturday, April 4, 2015, 06:33:07 »

Well that debate was crap, wasn't it.

The only moment of any interest was Farage deciding to have a go at foreign people with AIDS. Those evil bastards.

That was hilarious. If your foreign and have AIDS fuck off back to where you come from, he's right in a sense to be honest
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herthab
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« Reply #432 on: Saturday, April 4, 2015, 07:26:34 »

How much a year is lost to the country through benefit fraud? How much is lost through tax loopholes for big business? Both should be addressed, but why is the main focus on the first one?

Jonny is right in the sense that Thatcher's legacy has been widespread and affected not only her own party. That doesn't make it a good thing though. Take privatisation of essential services; how many of those have been improved because of it?
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@mwooly63

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« Reply #433 on: Saturday, April 4, 2015, 07:57:23 »

How much a year is lost to the country through benefit fraud? How much is lost through tax loopholes for big business?

Remember some figures saw the other day 1.2 billion v 102 billion ( in that range ) but as the larger amount is from the Tories cronies you know which one is chased.
Also the figure for unclaimed benefits is amazingly huge as well.
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Red and Proud

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« Reply #434 on: Saturday, April 4, 2015, 08:52:55 »

How much a year is lost to the country through benefit fraud? How much is lost through tax loopholes for big business? Both should be addressed, but why is the main focus on the first one?

Jonny is right in the sense that Thatcher's legacy has been widespread and affected not only her own party. That doesn't make it a good thing though. Take privatisation of essential services; how many of those have been improved because of it?


Pretty much all I reckon. Plus they pay their way and contribute tax into the system rather than being dependent on tax bailouts that were the norm before they were privatised. You must bare in mind and remember that any investment into a business either via a tax handout or by private means (share issues, loans or owners own cash) demands a return in productivity and profitability, which the unions always fought tooth and nail over, that's why this country got overtaken in the 60's, 70's & 80's.
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