pauld
Aaron Aardvark
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Absolute Calamity!
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« Reply #240 on: Wednesday, February 25, 2015, 20:49:04 » |
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I understand where you're coming from, but voting the same way has achieved nothing. Something has to change and it'll only change by doing something drastic. Besides, do you actually think they could ever get into power? And if they did get in, do you not in anyway think that being racist and bigoted wouldn't cause some sort of uprising, the like of which we need?*
No, I think the most likely outcome from a strong UKIP showing at the election is to drive the mainstream parties even further into knee-jerk rightwing policies on all the standard Daily Express issues UKIP stands for. Or at the worst case they form the minority part of a coalition with the Tories - that's what the country really needs, a Tory government with a minority partner egging them on to be even more right wing, even more dismantling of the NHS, even more authoritarian, even more dog-whistle racism. That's quite some vision you're voting for there.
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manc_red
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« Reply #241 on: Wednesday, February 25, 2015, 20:59:49 » |
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Or at the worst case they form the minority part of a coalition with the Tories
A genuinely terrifying prospect.
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Barry Scott
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« Reply #242 on: Wednesday, February 25, 2015, 21:08:20 » |
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No, I think the most likely outcome from a strong UKIP showing at the election is to drive the mainstream parties even further into knee-jerk rightwing policies on all the standard Daily Express issues UKIP stands for. Or at the worst case they form the minority part of a coalition with the Tories - that's what the country really needs, a Tory government with a minority partner egging them on to be even more right wing, even more dismantling of the NHS, even more authoritarian, even more dog-whistle racism. That's quite some vision you're voting for there.
Do you honestly think they're going to get any power? I suppose the reality of the situation is nothing will really change. Maybe red for blue and a few token words about something making headlines, then maybe a short period of occasional justification as to why none of their policies have come to fruition. And to acknowledge what you've said: you know far more than me about the political system, and clearly have greater trust in it, so what you say carries far more weight than anything I've typed (obviously ). I would hope though, that if something that awful were to happen I'd firstly be stoned to death and secondly people might start trying to fight this fucked up system.
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Honkytonk
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Whoo Whoo!
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« Reply #243 on: Wednesday, February 25, 2015, 21:26:44 » |
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My local constituency is North Dorset.
UKIP lost to the Conservatives here by a very narrow margin
The fact I could be typing this from a place where 'immigrants should get out because this is OUR country' is our political leaning is a fucking terrifying concept.
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Nemo
Shit Bacon
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« Reply #244 on: Wednesday, February 25, 2015, 21:30:05 » |
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Do you honestly think they're going to get any power? They don't need to get power, they just need to get enough support to get the Tories to turn rightwards. I know internet lefties (although I usually am one) generally paint Cameron as the devil incarnate, but far worse than him lurks on the right of the Tory party.
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Red and Proud
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« Reply #245 on: Wednesday, February 25, 2015, 22:24:57 » |
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They don't need to get power, they just need to get enough support to get the Tories to turn rightwards. I know internet lefties (although I usually am one) generally paint Cameron as the devil incarnate, but far worse than him lurks on the right of the Tory party.
and on the left side of the ahem "New" Labour party. Or are they really the "old" Labour party? Just for balance, just for balance.
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pauld
Aaron Aardvark
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Absolute Calamity!
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« Reply #246 on: Wednesday, February 25, 2015, 22:39:07 » |
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And to acknowledge what you've said: you know far more than me about the political system
I don't think I do and clearly have greater trust in it
I definitely don't. I think the most likely outcome of what you're advocating would be a whole series of very tawdry deals which would push our political mainstream several shades to the right with some very unpleasant consquences for the most vulnerable. And I don't think any of our oh-so-principled mainstream parties would blanch even a shade if they sniffed power at the end of it. so what you say carries far more weight than anything I've typed (obviously ). No it doesn't, that's daft. But I don't share your faith in a Russell Brand style uprising brought on by the excesses of the right. It's been tried before - the European far right and far left both tried it in the 70s - the Italian fascists referred to it as "The Strategy of Tension", the idea being that if they bombed enough tube stations as a counter to far-left terrorism there'd be counter-reaction from the left and eventually a military coup as the state fell apart. While the ultra-left thought if they bombed stuff, then there'd be a state crackdown which would force people into revolt. Neither happened. But a lot of innocent people suffered and died.
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ghanimah
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« Reply #247 on: Wednesday, February 25, 2015, 23:45:19 » |
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No, I think the most likely outcome from a strong UKIP showing at the election is to drive the mainstream parties even further into knee-jerk rightwing policies on all the standard Daily Express issues UKIP stands for. Or at the worst case they form the minority part of a coalition with the Tories - that's what the country really needs, a Tory government with a minority partner egging them on to be even more right wing, even more dismantling of the NHS, even more authoritarian, even more dog-whistle racism. That's quite some vision you're voting for there.
I think you're making the mistake that UKIP has any polices - on the NHS or indeed anything else.
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"We perform the duties of freemen; we must have the privileges of freemen ..."
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Reg Smeeton
Walking Encyclopaedia
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« Reply #248 on: Thursday, February 26, 2015, 00:32:47 » |
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. I'm politically interested...always have been.
Get involved then at the grass roots...democracy is a fragile flower, for example in Swindon South, there are 30/40 people prepared to put themselves out, to try and get Buckland re-elected....slightly less in Swindon North for Tomlinson.
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Red Frog
Not a Dave
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Pondlife
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« Reply #249 on: Thursday, February 26, 2015, 04:13:31 » |
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I'm a fucking idiot at best
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Tout ce que je sais de plus sūr ą propos de la moralité et des obligations des hommes, c'est au football que je le dois. - Albert Camus
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pauld
Aaron Aardvark
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Absolute Calamity!
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« Reply #250 on: Thursday, February 26, 2015, 09:42:46 » |
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I think you're making the mistake that UKIP has any polices - on the NHS or indeed anything else.
To be fair, I don't think I've ever accused UKIP of having any actual policies (best exemplified by Farage dismissing any commitment given in their manifesto at the last election on the grounds that he hadn't even read it!) but "Nigel's knee-jerks" which is what they have in place of policy are consistently unpleasant and he's plainly extremely hostile to the NHS.
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Arriba
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« Reply #251 on: Thursday, February 26, 2015, 10:14:22 » |
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I'm a fucking idiot at best
Considering your previous comments on political issues I'm surprised you could consider voting for a party which seems to represent the complete opposite of your personal views. You hate the Tories yet will you vote for an even worse option?
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Ardiles
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Stirlingshire Reds
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« Reply #252 on: Thursday, February 26, 2015, 10:52:01 » |
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I think a lot of people this time around are simply looking to shake up the Establishment/established order. The Expenses Scandal in 2010 was the start; and it's grown from there.
How do you achieve that? In England, many feel that voting UKIP represents the clearest way. And in Scotland, it's voting for the SNP.
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« Last Edit: Thursday, February 26, 2015, 10:55:23 by Ardiles »
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Saxondale
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« Reply #253 on: Thursday, February 26, 2015, 11:04:09 » |
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Christ on a fucking bike. A UKIP vote a protest against expenses scandals? For fucks sake those cunts have taken some lovely european jobs and are hoovering up every bit of cash they can out of it. Not because they want to expose the waste in the political system but because they want their snouts in the trough.
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Never knowingly overstated.
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ghanimah
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« Reply #254 on: Thursday, February 26, 2015, 11:48:28 » |
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To be fair, I don't think I've ever accused UKIP of having any actual policies (best exemplified by Farage dismissing any commitment given in their manifesto at the last election on the grounds that he hadn't even read it!) but "Nigel's knee-jerks" which is what they have in place of policy are consistently unpleasant and he's plainly extremely hostile to the NHS.
Yep, "Farage's knee jerks" is not a bad description. I won't worry, UKIP's polling trend is most decidedly on the down trajectory - he's taken the once promising party (20 years ago) into a political cul-de-sac. I'll be very surprised if they end up with more than one seat -Carswell, which has more to do with his own personal popularity locally than anything else.
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"We perform the duties of freemen; we must have the privileges of freemen ..."
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