Whats wrong with football?

[Berniman]

Out of curiosity, because I don't have a good answer for this, what punishment do you think would be suitable then? "I don't know" is a perfectly reasonable response btw, as I say I don't have a good answer either.

However, I do worry that if the punishments aren't eye-wateringly harsh this isn't the last we've seen of this. And next time they will succeed, which will be a much worse outcome for those fans than any points deduction or relegation would be e.g. one of the obvious logical consequences of such a League would be portability for the franchised clubs as per the NFL. Sticking with my prior examples, Liverpool fans might whinge about a 20 point deduction next season, and Man Utd fans would hate going to play local clubs in Conference North, but they'd hate both of those things a hell of lot less than having their club moved to LA or Mumbai.

I would ban the owners that directly made the play to join this league from being involved in football decisions, which should include not being able to attend matchdays.  I would probably put a European ban in place for next season for the clubs in question due to the nature of this spin off league that they were trying to form.  And not that it would hurt them much I would fine them a significant enough amount to at least stick in their throat - £100M.  That £600M should be re-invested in grassroots.

That's just off of the top of my head.

EDIT: and without reading the other suggestions made

[pauld]

I would ban the owners that directly made the play to join this league from being involved in football decisions, which should include not being able to attend matchdays.  I would probably put a European ban in place for next season for the clubs in question due to the nature of this spin off league that they were trying to form.  And not that it would hurt them much I would fine them a significant enough amount to at least stick in their throat - £100M.  That £600M should be re-invested in grassroots.

That's just off of the top of my head.

Fair enough. Not sure any of that would be a deterrent. Very much doubt the Glazers, FSG etc have any input on "football decisions", that's what they employ the likes of Ed Woodward for. the only thing that might hurt is the ban on European places, which actually falls under the same rubric as a points deduction etc - it's "punishing the fans" again isn't it? And would have no impact whatsoever on Arsenal and Spurs, and probably not Liverpool.

[Berniman]

Fair enough. Not sure any of that would be a deterrent. Very much doubt the Glazers, FSG etc have any input on "football decisions", that's what they employ the likes of Ed Woodward for. the only thing that might hurt is the ban on European places, which actually falls under the same rubric as a points deduction etc - it's "punishing the fans" again isn't it? And would have no impact whatsoever on Arsenal and Spurs, and probably not Liverpool.

IMO - the club not being in Europe doesn't punish the fans that much, certainly not as much as a domestic league points deduction.  A points deduction basically removes a season or two of the "bread and butter" for a fan whereas a European ban is removing the cherry on top - that is all.  However not being in Europe punishes the owners because they will not see the funds and qudos associated with it.  A point deduction does not affect the owners in any way really, except for making things difficult for them for a while - the real losers in that scenario are the fans.

As far as banning the owners - owning a club with the stigma of being banned from football and not being able to ship up at games means that some of the enjoyment of owning the club is taken away, they can't laud themselves as the reason for any success and it ensures that nobody will forget that you were part of the 6 that tried to betray the fans of all European clubs.  It certainly wouldn't be as enjoyable to own the club and make things more difficult for you to operate and might be enough to convince then to sell up and ship out.

[horlock07]

As far as banning the owners - owning a club with the stigma of being banned from football and not being able to ship up at games means that some of the enjoyment of owning the club is taken away, they can't laud themselves as the reason for any success and it ensures that nobody will forget that you were part of the 6 that tried to betray the fans of all European clubs.  It certainly wouldn't be as enjoyable to own the club and make things more difficult for you to operate and might be enough to convince then to sell up and ship out.

Do the owners of the 'big' 6 attend many games, OTTOMH the Glazers are terrified of the fans, when Liverpool won Henry etc were fairly silent, Levy is pretty high profile but both Chelsea and Arsenal have owners who are not commonly seen due to visa issues and not sure about the City lot.

[Chunkyhair]

Problem is - as as already been stated - the owners don't give a shit about the football, just the money (from the Levy's of this world to the Power's).  As has again already been said, football is a strange business in that regard, but the way it has evolved since the PL was set up has made a few (many) people rich but by and large left clubs with huge debts and continually eroded the pyramid with the ESL potentially having been the final nail in the coffin.

This summed it up for me as to where the mindset is:

Perez reiterated his view that the ESL was created "to save football", having also previously said the move had been made because young people were "no longer interested in football" because of "a lot of poor quality games".

Fucking hell - in spite of everything that has been spouted on here by all of us (inc. me) about the crap football we have been watching over the years, we will continue to go to watch and support Town, as will fans of teams at all levels of the game from Sunday League to CL.  To spout that the ESL would save football is contemptible, and would be insulting if Perez thought that anyone would believe it.  It will line the pockets of a few clubs (more specifically the owners) to the detriment of the game as a whole!

My fear though is that - again as many have said - this was a half baked ill conceived attempt to do somethat  that will reappear better planned and organised by the protaganists in the future.  There is a real need for the authorites to act to prevent that, but that is where my realist hat comes on and I say to myself - they will do fuck all.

[jayohaitchenn]

I would think it's obvious why young people are not getting into football. It's really fucking expensive.

[horlock07]

Its quite the spectator sport to see Perez slowly going round the bend... https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56842442

[horlock07]

This summed it up for me as to where the mindset is:

Perez reiterated his view that the ESL was created "to save football", having also previously said the move had been made because young people were "no longer interested in football" because of "a lot of poor quality games".

I would think it's obvious why young people are not getting into football. It's really fucking expensive.

From recollection didn't Perez say something along the lines of 40% of 'young' people not being interested in football, on that basis 60% are which seems no different to how it was 40+ years ago and still seems a pretty good rate for any sport.

He is making a complete bell end of himself and if they want any chance of such a thing progressing they need to take the microphone away from him ASAP!

[pauld]

Do the owners of the 'big' 6 attend many games, OTTOMH the Glazers are terrified of the fans, when Liverpool won Henry etc were fairly silent, Levy is pretty high profile but both Chelsea and Arsenal have owners who are not commonly seen due to visa issues and not sure about the City lot.

Abramovitch is apparently one of the most frequent attendees, the others barely go at all. Abramovich aside, as he does actually apparently genuinely enjoy football, they don't particularly like football. So banning them from attending games would be one of the most ineffective punishments it's possible to think of, if anything they'd be relieved to have an excuse not to have to put in the very few token appearances they currently make

[Berniman]

Abramovitch is apparently one of the most frequent attendees, the others barely go at all. Abramovich aside, as he does actually apparently genuinely enjoy football, they don't particularly like football. So banning them from attending games would be one of the most ineffective punishments it's possible to think of, if anything they'd be relieved to have an excuse not to have to put in the very few token appearances they currently make

The banning from the games is not the key point here though, the banning from football is.

[pauld]

The banning from the games is not the key point here though, the banning from football is.

OK, my apologies if I got the wrong end of the stick, just you seemed to have focused on that. Agree that banning them from football would certainly be a huge deterrent. Not going to happen unfortunately.

Man Utd training disrupted this morning by anti-Glazer protests from fans btw

[Berniman]

Yeah, we know that none of what I suggested is going to happen, I was just wracking my brains to think of some sort of punishment where the fans were less affected..

At the end of the day they will do what they are going to do and nobody will have a real say in it.. the same as the result of the charges against STFC

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

I see our erstwhile leader met with Ed Woodward a few days before the ESL announcement. Of course, there were no discussions about this breakaway and the billions of pounds there would be sloshing around.

There seems to be no facet of life in this country where that inflated sleazeball doesn’t leave his slime all over it.

Two faced fucker.

[horlock07]

Herein lieth the problem

https://www.thebusinessdesk.com/northwest/news/2077847-call-on-manchester-united-owners-to-reduce-their-shareholding-in-wake-of-esl-debacle

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

Maybe this is the solution

https://www.beesunited.org.uk/in-focus/why-the-brentford-model-of-a-fan-director-and-a-golden-share-could-work-at-your-club/