trivial things that make you smile,or make you feel good

[Bogus Dave]

You can’t trust the office of national statistics you sheep

[Audrey]

It virtually says they are putting up prices but only when people are actually in the pub.

Genius!

[horlock07]

Hold the front page, Aud, you've got the right data, just reading it wrong.

The ONS reports:

2,050,206 since Covid started
Of which, 206,879 were deaths that "mentioned" Covid (not necessarily directly caused by, but the person had Covid at the time of death)

Oh god don't open that can of worms, I'm old enough to remember all the fuss being made that it was apparently a massive government plot to mention covid on death certificates to try and show more cases and scare the population.

[Audrey]

You can’t trust the office of national statistics you sheep

Fuck off. It’s the ONS who are responsible for my pension increase!

[Audrey]

Oh god don't open that can of worms, I'm old enough to remember all the fuss being made that it was apparently a massive government plot to mention covid on death certificates to try and show more cases and scare the population.

Not trying to be confrontational but it’s weird that almost anything Boris and his cronies said on any subject was usually treated with disbelief yet on this one subject they believe everything he/they said.

[RobertT]

Not trying to be confrontational but it’s weird that almost anything Boris and his cronies said on any subject was usually treated with disbelief yet on this one subject they believe everything he/they said.

It's not about believing Boris, or any politician.  The Data shows us information, from which we can infer.  The data you used to support a claim was the right data, but you inferred the wrong thing - the excess death number you quoted was not on top of Covid, it was ALL EXCESS deaths in the period of Covid.

There were actually more deaths that mentioned Covid than the total Excess deaths - which is why the distinction of "mentioned Covid" is used.  The person had it, but it's not necessarily the thing that was the "cause of death", just like HIV doesn't actually cause deaths, but we should be worried if we have it.  It creates the conditions from which a cause of death occurs by fucking up the immune system.

[horlock07]

Not trying to be confrontational but it’s weird that almost anything Boris and his cronies said on any subject was usually treated with disbelief yet on this one subject they believe everything he/they said.

Who are 'they'?

[Audrey]

The ‘experts’

[RobertT]

The ‘experts’

But you've just used data incorrectly to show "they" were wrong.  The Data does not show that.

[horlock07]

The ‘experts’

Has any expert in anything believed a word Boris Johnson has ever said (or did say about Covid), I have a whole WhatsApp group full of memes which were circulating between medical professionals mocking and disproving just about everything which came out of his mouth/office during that period?

[Audrey]

Oh no. I didn’t say they were wrong. They just didn’t know what the outcome would be. They made assumptions. But they were wrong about vaccines preventing transmission - they didn’t. They were wrong about vaccines preventing death - they didn’t.

[Audrey]

Has any expert in anything believed a word Boris Johnson has ever said (or did say about Covid), I have a whole WhatsApp group full of memes which were circulating between medical professionals mocking and disproving just about everything which came out of his mouth/office during that period?

You knew it was mainly bollocks when almost from the start any speech he gave always contained ‘following the science’ was mentioned, cos he knew if/when the shit hit the fan he’d covered his own arse.

[RobertT]

Oh no. I didn’t say they were wrong. They just didn’t know what the outcome would be. They made assumptions. But they were wrong about vaccines preventing transmission - they didn’t. They were wrong about vaccines preventing death - they didn’t.

Fuck me Aud - now you are changing your argument.

Lets re-read the data:

2,050,206 deaths recorded in England and Wales (Scotland reports separately).

That was 194,584 above the expected total for the period (Excess Deaths)

Of the 2m, 206,879 mentioned the person having Covid - a high % will be caused by Covid, but not all.

It is not saying it's an extra 194k on top of the 206k.  They are both data contained within the 2m.  it should have been 1.8m if we had normal death rates, but we had 2m.  Of the 2m, 200k mentioned Covid, which is a very close nnumber to the 194k that we exceeded normal rates.  NOT ANOTHER 194k on top of Covid.

Covid is clearly the major cause of Excess Deaths since Feb 2020.

You are now saying that Vaccines did not prevent death - provide the dataset you are relying on, because what I see is Excess Deaths begin to return to the norm after about 18 months, you know, when people were largely vaccinated.

Your point on transmission is another point entirely, one I agree on.  Govt's the world over made it seem like they prevented transmission, they did not and were not designed to.  They reduces transmission by default, but that was because they were very good at reducing the viiruses ability to take hold and cause the patient to remain infected for more than a few days.

[Audrey]

All I’m saying is that some people who were vaccinated still died.

‘ The European Medicines Agency (EMA) reports that 11 448 people in the EU have died after receiving COVID-19 vaccines[1]:

8 368 for the Pfizer BioNTech vaccine (1 345 more than 2022);

1 579 for the AstraZeneca vaccine;.

1 161 for the Moderna vaccine;

339 for the Janssen vaccine;

1 for the Nuvaxovid vaccine;

0 for the traditional, inactivated Valneva vaccine.

[RobertT]

All I’m saying is that some people who were vaccinated still died.

How many?  Very few -the data showed a significant % of those who died were unvaccinated.  It was never reported as a Cure and never stated it completely protects.  They always stated a % of improvement in your chances of avoiding serious disease and death.

You added some data after I posted a response - it actually shows just how small the volume was for those who were vaccinated.