Alistair Darling's budget

[jonny72]

does the national debt effect you in any way really? i can't say i've been hit massively hit in the pocket by labour, infact things are better for me than they've ever been.my mortage rate is fuck all,and tax is more or less what it's always been.
gordon brown was a hero a couple of years ago when the economy was booming,but now it's backfired a bit he's a cunt of the highest order.

Well if you've going to blame the Tories for creating the hoddie culture, then you need to give them credit for all of the above as well. It was the Tories that sorted things out when Labour bankrupted the country in the 1970's, reduced tax rates to what they are now and laid the foundations for the financial growth and stability we've had until the last couple of years.

Labour might claim the economic boom as theirs but in reality it was the Tories that got it on the path to recovery prior to Labour coming to power in 1997. All Labour did was preside over a booming economy prior to completely and totally fucking it up, again.

Having said that I don't know that I'll be voting Tory this time. At present its a case of voting for the least worst party rather than the best one, which isn't much of a choice. I'm all in favour of a "none of the above" campaign, if a large percentage of the ballot papers are spoilt the shit will hit the fan and its probably the only way we'll be able to get all the political parties to stop acting like a bunch of complete and utter cunts.

[jonny72]

but i think it was far worse back then with mass unemployment and whole communities wrecked by thatcher. many still have not recovered.

Thatcher didn't destroy those communities the workers and their unions did that, all Thatcher did was give them the rope to hang themselves. Anyone who thinks the destruction of the unions that Thatcher presided over was a bad thing obviously can't be planning to travel by plane or train in the near future. If anything we need her back to destroy the remaining militant unions so they can stop fucking the whole country over, again.

[Talk Talk]

i'd say the 80's were fucking grim times under them, which saw the breakdown of the country in many ways.
people moan about now, but i think it was far worse back then with mass unemployment and whole communities wrecked by thatcher.
many still have not recovered.

Ah yes. Thatcher 1979-1990. Blair/Brown 1997 on. I can see how effective they have been in stimulating economic activity and bringing unemployment down in the last 13 years. 'Far worse' under Thatcher, eh?

[url width=732 height=472]http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/images/2009/Feb/uk-real-unemployment-nov08.gif[/url]

[Colin Todd]

I was reading about this the other day. The true economoically inactive percentage of the working age population is over 20%.  Even considering that some of those people dont want or need jobs and recieve no state support (ie housewives or rich people basically) thats a fucking shocking figure which goes along way to explain why the country is broke.

[Arriba]

Thatcher didn't destroy those communities the workers and their unions did that, all Thatcher did was give them the rope to hang themselves. Anyone who thinks the destruction of the unions that Thatcher presided over was a bad thing obviously can't be planning to travel by plane or train in the near future. If anything we need her back to destroy the remaining militant unions so they can stop fucking the whole country over, again.

i couldn't disagree more.
the unions fight to protect the workers, who would get shit on if it wasn't for them.
how are the unions fucking the country over?
i think the fat cats are,not the unions.
you mention the trains.flogged off by the tories and a shit service it is. should still be a public service,just like the gas,electric,water etc.

[iffy]

The structural economic disparity in the country is between old and young - more than it has ever been. It's not about Labour or Tories. And it's kind of broken forever.

If you're 55, chances are you own your own house, you have decent pension provision, you're relatively clear of debt, though credit has been easy to get. If you went to University, it was mostly paid for and you were able to get on the housing ladder. There have been, if not jobs for life, then decent employment opportunities for the majority of your career. (obviously, with lots of exceptions, like miners).

If you're 25, chances are you've just graduated from a university with thousands of pounds worth of debt and you're coming into a job market that will treat your degree as a right to an entry level job. Even if you could pay off your debt and raise enough for a mortgage, no-one will lend to you.

The only pension provision you will get is that which you provide yourself, whilst an increasing portion of the income you do earn will go to funding the pensions of the 55 year olds with all the wealth.

There are four ways for a 'normal' person to accumulate wealth: property, investment, pension entitlement and inheritance. Except for the last, each of these doors are closed to this generation, who are condemned to live hand to mouth for the majority of their working lives. I'm not sure you can blame the EU, or immigrants, or Labour or the Tories, but the current generation of 15-25 year olds are fucked and will be living with their parents til they're 40.

[Samdy Gray]

how are the unions fucking the country over?...
...you mention the trains.flogged off by the tories and a shit service it is. should still be a public service,just like the gas,electric,water etc.

A shit service that makes money for the economy, unlike Royal Mail for example which is haemorrhaging money out of it's arse because the Union members are reticent to change.

[jonny72]

Even considering that some of those people dont want or need jobs and recieve no state support (ie housewives or rich people basically) thats a fucking shocking figure which goes along way to explain why the country is broke.

I was shocked to find out just how much money a single parent with a couple of kids can get from the state - more than enough to have a pretty comfortable life style in a pretty decent house. There seems to be little to no attempt to make the absent parent to pay their fare share or to get the parent with the kids to work.

From top to bottom the entire benefits system is completely and utterly fucked and it is getting worse and worse under Labour. I dread to think how much money is being pissed away compared to how it could be if it was done properly, yet there seems to be little emphasis on sorting it out from any of the parties.

[Talk Talk]

i couldn't disagree more.
the unions fight to protect the workers, who would get shit on if it wasn't for them.
how are the unions fucking the country over?
i think the fat cats are,not the unions.

Completely blinkered. I am not a union member and I am not being fucked over. Neither is my partner, my two eldest working children or any of my friends who work in non-unionised organisations. We are all happy with our pay and conditions. It is only the public sector, nationalised or recently nationalised monopolies that have unions any more. Why? Because there is no competition and so it lines the pockets of the union leaders. I agree with Jonny, unions are complete dog shite - look at the effect it has on the railways, Royal Mail and BA.

[Arriba]

Ah yes. Thatcher 1979-1990. Blair/Brown 1997 on. I can see how effective they have been in stimulating economic activity and bringing unemployment down in the last 13 years. 'Far worse' under Thatcher, eh?

[url width=732 height=472]http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/images/2009/Feb/uk-real-unemployment-nov08.gif[/url]

what that doesn't show is how communities were wrecked.nor does it show how times have changed, mass immigration etc.

[pauld]

A shit service that makes money for the economy

No it doesn't. The rail network is more heavily subsidised now than it was when it was nationalised. Like the banks, all that's been privatised is the profit, not the risk

[iffy]

Ah yes. Thatcher 1979-1990. Blair/Brown 1997 on. I can see how effective they have been in stimulating economic activity and bringing unemployment down in the last 13 years. 'Far worse' under Thatcher, eh?

[url width=732 height=472]http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/images/2009/Feb/uk-real-unemployment-nov08.gif[/url]

International comparisons for UK unemployment now tend to include people on long-term incapacity benefit. One big reason for this is that when they went through the mine closures, tens of thousands of people were put on incapacity benefit rather than the dole. There are some shocking stats about places like Merthyr Tydfil, where nearly the whole working population is on benefits and the local economy is dead.

So yeah, Thatcher was ace.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4217648.stm

[Arriba]

A shit service that makes money for the economy, unlike Royal Mail for example which is haemorrhaging money out of it's arse because the Union members are reticent to change.

it's not that simple sam.
royal mail makes a profit too.

[Arriba]

Completely blinkered. I am not a union member and I am not being fucked over. Neither is my partner, my two eldest working children or any of my friends who work in non-unionised organisations. We are all happy with our pay and conditions. It is only the public sector, nationalised or recently nationalised monopolies that have unions any more. Why? Because there is no competition and so it lines the pockets of the union leaders. I agree with Jonny, unions are complete dog shite - look at the effect it has on the railways, Royal Mail and BA.

it's the fucking useless fat cats that ruin it,not the unions

[Talk Talk]

No it doesn't. The rail network is more heavily subsidised now than it was when it was nationalised. Like the banks, all that's been privatised is the profit, not the risk

I wondered when you would be along  

I completely agree with you Paul. Bring back the Great Western Railway proper, I say.

[url width=422 height=388]http://www.steamindex.com/media/gwrlogo.gif[/url]