Alistair Darling's budget

[Arriba]

the whole politics debate is never ending and cannot be won really.for every opinion, there is a counter one.
i'm pro union and others are anti.i hate the tories, others think they are the answer.
at least we are able to have the debates we have, and make the choices we do.long may that continue!
think i'll leave it at that.

[jonny72]

I'm all for workers rights and aren't opposed to unions of some form but the right to strike needs to be taken away as in the vast majority of cases its a completely unjustifiable and disproportionate response. Maybe some kind of enforced mediation would be the solution - if there is a dispute it goes to an independent mediator whose decision is binding on both parties.

I still don't get what unions gain from strike action. Any moron can see that strikes at any company will lose it money which in the longer term is only going to lead to more redundancies and lower pay as the company has to make up for the losses one way or another. Its always the employees that are going to lose out.

[Arriba]

maybe i wont leave it at that.

jonny,take the last postal dispute.the union repeatedly requested the intervention of acas to resolve the issues.royal mail refused this and wouldn't play ball,ignored agreed procedures etc.the union then balloted for strikes which then took place.in the end royal mail agreed to acas coming in to mediate.so if they had done this from the start there would have been no strikes.had there been no union, they would have just done whatever they liked to the workforce and service.
time and time again posties were told there was no money,yet crozier and his croneys were coining in huge bonuses.fats cats creaming it in,whilst the workers had their existing roles attacked.
i wouldn't call that unions wrecking royal mail.infact i'd say totally the opposite as they were trying to protect the service and jobs.

[Simon Pieman]

On the other hand I work for someone in exchange for money. They throw all kinds of shit at me and I gotta take it because I need the money. I can always look for another job if I don't like it.

Strikes should only occur as a very last resort to leaving your job, if the employer is seriously taking the piss. How many times have Royal Mail workers striked in the last decade? Quite honestly why do they work there if it is really that shit and makes them that unhappy?

[Arriba]

On the other hand I work for someone in exchange for money. They throw all kinds of shit at me and I gotta take it because I need the money. I can always look for another job if I don't like it.

Strikes should only occur as a very last resort to leaving your job, if the employer is seriously taking the piss. How many times have Royal Mail workers striked in the last decade? Quite honestly why do they work there if it is really that shit and makes them that unhappy?

of course people could leave and plenty do.
but if you have an employer who is taking the piss, at least as a union member you have a voice and can stick together.
those who are not in unions and have all manner of shit thrown at them, will either have to accept it or move on.
there seems to be a rise in employees getting more shit by the day in all manner of jobs.
i think those who are treated well and are not part of a union can count themselves lucky.i wouldn't count on it lasting.

[Simon Pieman]

Unions are a good idea to facilitate reducing the gap between employer and employee expectations. I'm not against the idea of Unions as such. I just don't understand the merit of much of the strike action which occurs because it pretty much never achieves what it sets out to do.

[Talk Talk]

I haven't got a problem with unions either. As long as it is voluntary collective bargaining, as in getting together because as an employee you want someone else to represent your common objectives.

What is completely wrong is the imposition of union membership. It's just like having the mafia around. Just like a mafia, it isn't about protection, it is about exploitation of the 'subscribers' and wealth and power for the union dons.

Monopolies almost demand unions, because there is no competition. Which is why I hate the form that they take in this country.

[Talk Talk]

So i say to you brothers i urge you to stand up and fight!...shite i am turning scouse.

Stand up and fight for what? Unemployment?

This country is poised on the rim of the economic toilet. We don't manufacture anything any more. We no longer innovate or lead the world in design or technology. Our service industry as it stands is circular, providing to the same population. The only thing we have had for the last twenty years is some very clever people in the City of London who have been able to make money out of the world because they were the focus of the financial markets. Now even they are being driven abroad because of the retards in power are legislating their incomes away. Yeah, let them be 'fat cats', at least they were keeping the country afloat. Madness.

So what's left? Ah, England - the global tourist destination. There's nothing else. Swindon twinned with Disneyland? I fucking hope so, at least we will get some foreign exchange.

[url width=320 height=240]http://huseyincakir.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/thats-all-folks.jpg[/url]

[jonny72]

We no longer innovate or lead the world in design or technology.

Except for the British designed processor that is used in 98% of all mobile phones sold.

Other than that we're shit though.

[NZrobin]

From the other side of the world it clearly looks like the British ecomony is in a very, very fucked up state.
Like many of your comments I to was left of centre in the mid 1980's and hated the divide and distroy antics of the then Tory govenment lead by queen bitch...
However, it is clear that Britain is now suffering from all the politcal correctness or lack of leadership shown for so long under Tony Blair and his clowns..
Britain will need a complete change of focus in work ethics and possibly the hard reality of a break down in social welfare payments / hand outs. The cold hard facts are that the type of behaviour (relying on govenment handouts for suppliments / payments / top ups) has now become the norm for the majority of families that it could take a major national / international disastor to bring back reality once again. 
In saying that employers need to take a stand where they need to reward their staff with realistic pay rates where their work force don't need to get "top ups" to simply survive. Hopefully this would encourage more productivity in the work force. By the same token welfare payments need to be adjusted / trimmed back to an affordable level. God forbid, I am now sounding like a fucking Tory...!!!
As for trying to up the taxes on petrol, cider or tabbaco to rectify the past ill managed decisions..I suggest it would be like re arranging the deck chairs on the Titantic just prior to its sinking.          

[Summerof69]

I noticed some figures yesterday in regards to the country's debt. When Nu Labour tookover in '97 the public debt was some £365bn, large but manageable.

Over the last few years the debt has shot up, and is expected to be in the region of £785bn at the end of the tax year, and increase of £150bn in a YEAR.

Instead of tackling that, and try to cut the deficit, under the tax and spending plans in the budget, it is estimated to virtually double again over the next five years to £1.4tn (TRILLION), a massive 75% of GDP.

We're fooked under Labour.

[pumbaa]

The public sector now accounts for 52.1% of Gross Domestic Product.

I really shouldn't get involved in this thread, but that 'fact' (and Toddy's post that there has been a >1M increase in the public sector workforce under Labour) has shocked me somewhat. Where exactly have they been employed then? Doing what? Because they sure as hell aren't in my area of the public sector, which has been cut left right and centre for the last 15 years. So I'm just curious as to what areas of the public sector they have been employed in. 

[Lumps]

I haven't got a problem with unions either. As long as it is voluntary collective bargaining, as in getting together because as an employee you want someone else to represent your common objectives.

What is completely wrong is the imposition of union membership. It's just like having the mafia around. Just like a mafia, it isn't about protection, it is about exploitation of the 'subscribers' and wealth and power for the union dons.

Monopolies almost demand unions, because there is no competition. Which is why I hate the form that they take in this country.

Fuck me I didn't realise you lived in 1930's Chicago.

[Talk Talk]

Fuck me I didn't realise you lived in 1930's Chicago.

Fuck me I didn't realise you lived in 1950's USSR.

[spacey]

You think you two have got it bad! I'm living in Coventry in the early 80's