Thetownend.com

KO 7pm. :pint:

Are we expecting a full strength line up tonight?

Pissed my self seeing the EFL charges come out 3 hours before it starts. The club must be livid. Just needed to get their heads down for one more day then run back to Aus.

If anyone is going tonight please fill us in and all things,

Interestingly, when Clem said he was coming back to help oversee the transfer window and had injected some cash to support this, he knew we would very likely not be able to spend any money.

I missed this point. Unbelievable

Going for a 2-0 loss today, can't see a good result with this line up. Just hope it doesn't get embarrassing.

Couple of red cards?

Surely enough ammunition for an extra LSPOD this eve Constanza?!

I'm recording with Morshead tomorrow night.

Piece of piss, 4-1

Will A Hall get sent off for a two footed challenge? is the big question.  Or maybe he will go full Cantona.

I’m presuming Clem will actually attend - or throw Hall under the bus.

Or he could have been struck down with an almighty dose of the (bull)shits

Hmmm this feels a very pro Clem demographic here

Club are streaming it in you tube 7pm

Hall to be sent off surely

It’s heaving. No chance of getting questions in.

is there a link?

The club's youtube page

No stream

I’d be grateful if someone could take notes or summarise at the end please?

Has it started yet?

It's up - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzNTjePO8CM

Oh my this is bad

People shouting out calling him a liar already.

Year 9 powerpoint presentation

'Competitive Budget' on the slideshow  :D

Not going well this is it?

Anthony Hall. What a prick!

He sounds frightened. Good to have confirmation that Karachi is still GO!

It does not sound like a friendly room.

I was about to turn the stream off and then thought this could be fun  :D

Filibustering here. They’ll avoid getting into Q&A for as long as possible.

We don’t need to hear about Jamie Russell’s values of togetherness…. What is the Latin for dishonest and skint?

Yup. Pure time wasting.

Best not under the circumstances.

What does integrous mean, ffs

Empowering our future.

 Constantly sewing the seeds for Gunning full-time.

So much integrity that we reported free transfers as undisclosed so that it sounded like we were spending money.

Organised
Relentless
Ruthless

Well they certainly arent the top one

They're going for the Colin Robinson energy vampire approach, kill the room before the questions start.

Jamie Russell could get a job with Accenture on this performance.

They've just shown a chart identifying Charlie Austin as ageing  :D

Some TED talk this

All waffle trying to avoid any real questions….hall saying they only found out today about the charge was a highlight

The charge they appealed?

Phil King is so far up Clem’s ass it’s likes he’s pulling the strings

Sulky teenager Clem.

Ive turned it off.

It is kicking the fuck off

This is cringeworthy watching to be honest

Get into em,

As much as people want to have a pop, the hosts need to get a better grip and control the questions.

The lad who waited and asked very specifically why we only found about the charges today has the right idea. Nail him on the facts, just heckling is amusing but it doesn't help.

How has he said another admin error for fuck sake. The whole room laughing at him.

It's almost as if nobody at the club or associated with the club have a clue of the level of frustration with a large section of the fanbase - it's obvious they just like listening to the happy voices on a matchday.

Correct, that's how this should be handled.

Me too

"this club costs a million a year to run"

Under Di Canio spunking money left right and centre it was 250k wasn't it?

Gav looks like he's having the time of his life :D

Fair play to Gav stepping up and trying to front this.

Yeah, they seem genuinely surprised by how this is going.

To actually expect to just be able to say "admin error" and NOT expect that response. So out of touch.

Would love Phil King and all the Clem supporters to stop just naming clubs that spend too much like that is what the naysayers are asking for?

The worst thing about this, and we knew about it before this forum, is that the worst communicators at the club are Clem and Antony. Its so sad our leaders are so inept at communicating.

What did he say about a car wash?

He’s got one. Plus a Mercedes in Switzerland.

Might have meant he’s a Rose Royce fan.

Probably more likely valeting service knowing the previous

Walter White had a car wash.

Apparently we’ve got one of the best defensive mids in the league according to Gunning. Who’s that?

It's all fine though lads, we've got a bigger budget than Crewe and Barrow.

I assume McCarthy

You’d Think they’d like to keep that quiet

He’s a centre back.

Why has nobody asked the obvious question based on that age chart?

Are we planning on only getting experienced players by waiting for our players to age, when they are only here for max 2 years! Or will we start recruiting some players to fill the gaps you have highlighted.

Got to be Khan

Clem claims not to be owed any money.
CM - “We’re going to wipe off the debt”

Come on! Be fair! They said they appealed it and only found out the final decision today.

I'm assuming he means Khan. I guess based on the fact that one of the better teams in the League were trying to sign him would suggest he's not that bad

Anybody asked about the club being for sale

I agree. This is actually the toughest thing because they simply cannot communicate clearly.

For Clem I get it; but for the CEO to not be able to get across ideas is awful.

I find it incredible that the opening salvos of death by powerpoint were things we did which is excellent, but they don't seem to correspond to the initial things they said they were going to do.

The new 1, 3 and 5 year plans are obviously, rather vague too. It's all very confusing

In December Clem said to me that the trust he had put in people had been misplaced and that he realised that he need ed to be here far more frequently during the year to oversee things.

Whilst things have happened in his name, it isn’t necessarily his fault. He is however prepared to publicly say that he takes the blame and has apologised.

Apart from naming the individuals concerned, which may be illegal, what do you expect him to say other than admin errors?

He was making a counterpoint to the argument that a bigger budget would solve everything.

If they can do it, and we have a bigger budget, so can we.

Zav Austin is in the room.

Get rid of those he can’t trust and get a CEO that knows his stuff - not some limp biscuit.

Sans knee caps?

Crewe invest millions in their Academy, so not much of a comparison.

And Year One includes getting promoted this season.

Yikes.

The admin errors have happened so regularly. They don't happen regularly at other L2 clubs bar the basketcase ones.

regarding the latest errors or the earlier errors?

TBF It's "push for promotion"

I dont think it's that confusing.

However it is vastly different to his 5 year plan when he took over, which was to be in the championship.

Sadly this forum is being run terribly so nobody can ask the follow  up questions.

Why after 3 years is our 5 year objective now lower than it was when you took over?

If your short term plan is to get promoted how do you plan on getting a competitive squad together given the level of financial competition in this league?

We the fans see no evidence the squad has got any stronger over the last 3 years, how can you make us believe that will be changed over the next 1 to 2 years?

As is Adam Hart

Ah sorry, misread it as Defensive minds :D

That's the point i was making. Say you're going to do 1, 2 and 3....if you do 4, 5 and are planning to do 7...

Who's the guy sat next to Clem?

Anthony Hall - the CEO

And the most recent one, that we are aware of, occurred after Hall had been brought in as CEO.  As you say, the fact they continue to occur is likely a result of the operating strategy and personnel in place, all of which is owned and implemented by the owner (given there is no Board).

I'll keep re-iterating.  Actions.  Ignore the PowerPoints, bad as they are, ignore the charts (well, actually don't, because as Riddick highlighted, they showed a problem that totally undermined the words being provided).

It slipped in, almost as a throw away comment, but Clem confirmed we have invested in an Academy in Karachi.  This, despite several attempts over the past 12 months to say it was a personal thing for Zav.  Now, the reporting in Pakistan actually undermined this last year, and made it very clear iy was an STFC initiative.  I actually submitted a question on this one, so wonder if that was simply avoided by now reverting back to accepting it is indeed an STFC run operation.

Actions - everything they actually do suggests either malintent or incompetence.  Neither of which are good for the club in the long term.  Forget protesting, prepare for what comes next.  Ideally that's making public efforts to buy them out over time, worst case it's having a plan if the real shit hits the fans.

Jimmy White circa 1985

Smash open the swear jar! We might be able to afford Kemp

Kingy, he's there cos he said he would be mate...simmer down

Antony Hall sat there like a child in front of his parent

We aren't going to get to the Championship with admin error after admin error for goodness sake Clem.

Phil King really wants to keep his Hospitality job.

Karachi - we really have no fucking idea what it's all about.  Zav arranged something, he seems to be getting some cash and Pikey went off and had a nice holiday, but other than that, we haven't really worked it out other than it causes us to squirm, a lot.

This may be an unpopular opinion. When Morfuni lost it, I saw genuine passion in him. It’s the first time I thought he might care. He just hasn’t the means, or the awareness of what it means to associate with former criminals, and not comply with football league rules or really know how to make the right decisions in general. He might be a decent guy, way, way out of his depth. Karachi, for example. Now confirmed we are doing something there, having been confirmed before that we’re not. I vote incompetence, not malintent.

Adam Hart is just sat there staring at the guys asking the questions.

Aussie Academy - Gav got a holiday, but doesn't really know what it was for.

Jamie Russell - FM 2024 is not real people, it's not real.

Morfuni wouldn't necessarily be the problem, if he got rid of the hangers on, and employed qualified football people to run the club. If it was up front that Clem is not loaded and can't pump millions into the club, but there are no shady characters around and we have a team of qualified football people that are going to have a go with what we have, i think most would be happy with that.

I missed a lot of this, but's one of the better Forum's, in so far as entertaining.  Has anyone asked about the Bike Rack yet?

I mean, he is pretty annoying tonight, but King is actually doing a better job at answering than anyone on the table.

I don't really doubt this either, he might have the passion, but the incompetence, continued admin error after admin error, and the people baggage just outweigh that genuine well meaning and passion. The passion can't outdo that.

Can someone ask Clem how much he wants to buy back the 22% shares, and if he would sell this to the supporters?

That’s down to the 2 women who own the shares - not Clem.

They don’t actually know the expenditure, they need to confirm how much they’ve spent. How can they not know that?

And the chap meandering around about the Debenture is why these are not good events though, in terms of getting real meat on the bones.

No, they need someone to check their formula's in the spreadsheet.  The chart around players ages suggests we should indeed worry about their Excel skills.

They also don't believe the figures, which is insane

If I was Clem I’d have a good idea what fans would be asking. I’d have a crib sheet with facts and figures to hand and at least sound like you know your business - even if it is bollocks, make it sound reasonable bollocks.

He certainly said that, but I think we have to accept Hall is an inept communicator and that's not quite what he meant.

CLEM CONFIRMS HE COULDN'T DO DUE DILIGENCE ON THE CLUB

Is a new fax machine in the budget?

I can accept that Hall is not qualified to the CEO of any business and likely never will be.  I can also accept he is not the sort of person to put in charge of finances.  Maybe he was OK at fixing bogs?

But was a non-Exec Director for years, invested previously in the club, and, as part of the 2 years he just mentioned being in court with Power, he'd be fully aware of documentary evidence bouncing back and forth about the expenses.  Even Power's basic accounts DID show the club being in debt, and the Debentures were on Companies House and part of the public record.

I dont disagree, he doesn't strike me as a ceo, given those I have worked with.

So the new players are only on contracts to the end of the season with options.

CEO - Clem’s Easy Option

"With Bycroft and Glatzel we took over their contracts. I knew this embargo might come and we were working around it. We have been creative and found different ways to sign players. We worked bloody hard on the permanent players. We have the option on them for next season."

This sounds smart, but I'm not sure saying we were creative to get round a punishment will sit perfectly with the EFL...

Our option though which is important..

But with no details on what that option actually covers.

From watching this and reading through advisory boards/companies House etc, I would tend to agree.

I wonder how long the live stream of this will stay on the official clubs YouTube for

I was wondering that too.

None of the questions that were submitted before the event were answered

I'm not really any the wiser after watching that to be honest.. Are they crooks, just inept or just folk trying their best having bitten of more than they can chew . I really don't know .

Definitely some talking points.

I’m not an expert but it sounded to me like there were some very sensitive topics with regards to rules and regulations discussed that didn’t seem to be discussed as well as they could have, can someone more clued up than me shed any light on whether that’s a right assumption or not?

If so, then this stream coming out of a club official channel doesn’t seem great

To be fair to Anthony Hall, I can't imagine him being capable of getting away with shoplifting a bag of Space Raiders, let alone anything more nefarious.

And, if they were crooks, they may at least know what they are doing.

Pure incompetence with a side dish of convicted criminals offering advice and help, a mix that seems unable to run a football club particularly well.  Who would have thought.

I think you are referencing Russell and his description of the signings.  I don't think he was suggesting we bent the rules, just was trying to suggest we had been clever in handling them.  The reality is we took over the last few months of a youth professionals contract that was being let go in the summer anyway.

They also seemed to be suggesting that “Fair Game” (an unconnected third party) was going to come in and tell them whether their accounting was right or not. I’m pretty certain that’s not how it works!

I actually felt slightly sorry for them tonight. Just unable to grasp the fairly basic issues.   

That one actually didn’t trigger in my head, it was things like discussion of other clubs funding practices that set alarm bells off

2 and 3, being guided by 1 I think

The biggest red flag for me is how Anthony hall seemed to admit that they have no idea what they’re spending £8m a year on (and by inference how that’s increased by over £1m yoy) and need to get a third party to mark their homework

It’s been three years. What are they doing

Fair Game, and our seeming reliance on using them as some sort of seal of approval worries me.  I'm not even sure I have that much respect for them, based on having a look around their stuff.  It seems a bit better than Maguire or the Big 4 Consultancies usual attempts at 'analysing' football finances, but it looks a little nothing more than a pressure group to try and get some money out of the Premier League.

Our reasons for using them are purely for that, and trying to get someone to look like an independent org to rubber stamp our Accounts.  In reality, they won't dig deep or have much of an understanding - they are not free Financial Consultants.  

Just get a fucking competent Accountant on the books.

I think Hall stumbling around this bullet point is because he really doesn't know how to word it in a way that makes sense and isn't a little underhand.

Hall, not much of a leader I think that’s clear

That was pretty painful...far too cringeworthy to watch in its entirety so skimmed through but I had to stop when Clem brought up that bloody Mercedes AGAIN that's been stuck in Switzerland for at the last 3 years at least. It's clearly the main obstacle to the Club moving forward at this point.

Jesus fucking wept...

Commercial guy was impressive (or at least, relative to everyone else!). Would put 50p on him being CEO this time next year!

Don't forget the 20 people they found using Child tickets, that was used again.  Unless we fix these things we can never expect to increase the Revenue.

Him and Jamie Russell came across well.

The rest was like a shit Partridge episode.

Phil King claiming players don’t want to play football these days and that’s why we can’t make signings  :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

Nowhere near enough experience - he's basically done this job at Hereford before us and run some DJ nights.  Not saying you are wrong in the outcome, just that he should be nowhere near such a job.  

Yeah, but in the good old days you could just slip them something in an envelope round the back of the Arkells once the lights were turned off.

Clem's constant claim of having purchased the CG is annoying me now.  He was even called out on it tonight, applauded at being called out, and then did it again later on.

Commercial director mentioned boxing events. I'm sure that'll he for Adam Harts fighters run by whatever name MTK Global are operating as now.

Recently in the news for money laundering.

Oh yeah the good old days

Basically,

You can see why STFC is on a road to no where.

Morfuni is clearly so far away from being a success as a football club owner or a business manager.

He could be a good stand in for Dell Boy or Albert Arkwright in Open all hours.



    

That was painful viewing

Genuinely felt a bit sorry for them- they’re so out of their depth here it’s embarrassing

Also appears many questions submitted up front not answered

Actually think they are very incompetent- and cannot see many ST renewals without a regime change tbh

Also how the fuck could Clem not do due diligence- he was connected with the club 2 years before he took over so surely had some idea

My take having been there tonight.
*Clem has a pretty strong support still
*I have never seen anyone read a PowerPoint word for word before
*We want to be paid to develop other peoples players
*Karachi is still clear as mud
*Phil King thought he should answer most of the questions himself and also got away with cracking racist jokes before it went live.
*Clem showed some bite, but just repeats the same things over and over
*There was far more getting chucked at them than I expected, I just don’t think it was quite channeled correctly.
*Adam Hart was effectively acting as a bodyguard to Hall at the end.
*A lot of questions just seemed to get spin put on them so the answers weren’t always clear.
*The 1, 3 & 5 year plans are just words.
*Gunning gets a special mention for comically nodding and agreeing when he got asked if the budget was correct for where we are in the table

Yeah, Phil King a little bit racist a little bit sexist. I’ll know what to look forward to when I’m in hospitality.

He doesn’t have to be. Just employ people who know what they are doing and let them get on with it. How on earth has he put together a company with a £300m T/O.

That Meredes shambles has gone on so long the car is probabky in negative equity :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

I quite like Phil king (not racist, sexist jokes). But he was abysmal.

Watching Adam Hart spend the entire night just staring at the dissenters was certainly interesting, a pretty intimidating guy.

Hart certainly has a ‘presence’ about him.

A right nasty bastard.

I need to know the racist joke. I've cringed so much tonight, I may as well cringe a bit more.

I switched off fairly early due to the Young Enterprise standard presentation, Morph looking put out at being called out, the clapping for club representatives that don't deserve it and Phil King telling us how Clem saved the club and, in effect, trying to tell the naughty boys off that weren't on message. Shambles.
Many thanks for all of you who kept a running commentary.

So no one was brave enough to ask about Harts involvement? We had plenty in Zav

Not sure, I’m watching back now.

Can’t blame anyone who feels slightly hesitant given the characters involved…

Something to do with a bloke in a curry house, but he did it with an Indian accent for the waiter.
I’m not woke in the slightest, but was very surprised he told that “joke” at a fans forum.

I tuned in eventually. I didn’t watch the PowerPoint, but listened to the questions.

I thought it all rather shouty and embarrassing to be honest. Superficial answers to questions and no follow on probing.

Agree that Jamie Russell and the Commercial fella came across well. The rest not so much!

There was a question about kids on the bench, but that’s as close as it got.

Probably because the cunt was staring at everyone.

I felt sorry for Alex Pike, he got absolutely put under a bus to answer the Karachi stuff.

Agree with most.
Russell and the commercial chap came across well.
Pike go thrown under the bus.
Hall and Morfuni just came across as incompetent and dodgy.
No q’s for the women’s team reps - why waste their evening?
Overall concerning! :crash:

I’ll be honest, I decided it wasn’t worth the potential future grief for evasive answer.

Was that you that come up to us after and said hart was eyeballing you all out the whole time? 😂

Productive evening. Said what was needed to be said imo. Good to see 8 or 9 others pipe up too. Some good questions. Some embarrassing ones. Pike and Russel speak well. CEO and chairman pair of clowns 🤡 completely out of depth.

Zero conviction in answers. Massive own goal with the Karachi stuff. Clem Morfuni get out of my football club.

Did you manage to ask any questions personally?

Yeah it was, he literally spent the who night arms crossed staring at you. Was spectacular viewing.

When’s the MotM vote going up?

PotM please, Mandie Coe outperformed at least half the panel, in that I'm not sure she said anything at all.

Who tf is Mandie Coe?

Head of the women’s team, her husband is David Coe who is the sponsors representative on the Advisory Board. Who doesn’t actually represent the sponsors at all.

Judging by the comments on the youtube stream, there is still a massive amount of 'if we didnt have Clem, we wouldnt have a club, get behind the team!' apologists. I turned it off after a while, complete fucking shambles.

No womens football questions to me was unfair they are part of the club.

Let me start by saying I am not pro or anti Clem or anything but these are my thoughts.

- The bloke has made mistakes. He has admitted them and apologised.
- He has purchased the ground which will save money in the long run.
- He is obviously very passionate.
- He needs to let the football people do the football stuff
- I think he believes in loyalty hence the Gav appointment. He needs to think long term though.
- Is he right for the club? I don't know. I think his heart is in the right place but not sure if he is the man to take the club forward.

Likes others have said, the commercial manager spoke very well and very passionately.
Thought Gav Gunning was very confrontational. Bit of brown nosing I reckon.
The DOF man, whoever he is, wasn't very forthcoming.

I think we need to reassess at the end of the season. Let's see what figures come out of the audit then take it from there.

That meeting was not managed well. A stronger chairperson would've helped, not having two contradictory roaming mics would've helped (Vic was alright). I've been in council meetings with more aggro and it was managed much better by council officers ffs.

Fair play to the club I suppose and well done supporters club for organising.

They need to get a finance professional and administrative professional in and ditch Mr Hall. A await with baited breath the next drama, probably with the Trust centre stage.

He didn’t buy the ground though and he needs to stop claiming all the credit for that. Nigel Eady bought the ground and has gifted 50% of it to the club (Morfuni).

Why is the audit so late? Year end May 23, I would expect an audit around Jul/Aug 23. Accounts are meant to be filed within the next 4 weeks.

I don't think this lot looking at the books would affect accounts being filed https://www.fairgameuk.org/about

https://www.swindontownfc.co.uk/news/2021/august/coe-capital-wealth-management-ltd-continue-their-loyal-support-of-town/

How many mistakes is too many mistakes? It's one after another, after another, after another. They never learn. Don't see any other L2 clubs making as many of these 'admin' errors as we do.

Really really impressed with the Commercial fella, put him in charge of "Admin"

I was listening to the stream while walking back from the gym, someone was going on about three words and the academy. Stopped listening.

Just fired up the live steam reply in a random place, and clem is ranting! The thing was a farce. too much shouting and Phil king was too involved in filtering and answering questions.

too many people on the panel as well.

Not read or listened back but just skipped through the adver live blog. Sounds like an 'interesting' evening.

Agreed, waste of time having the woman there.

Nice to see the women's team doing well but not many really give too much of a shit about them, especially given the myriad of more pressing issues

I feel sorry for Mandy being there. I would say that this is a EFL mandated fans forum
https://www.swindontownfc.co.uk/fans/customer-charter/

So to that extent, they had to run it as it there isn't a suggestion that there's trouble at the mill, meaning people are going to be overlooked.

Kingy defending Clem from the more vocal element (IMO it strayed into being unconstructive at times) saying "he doesn't have to be here".
No he doesn't...but his company also did a powerpoint saying they wanted closer fan engagement and to transparent...so you can't really have it both ways.

If you look at clubs like Barrow and Harrogate, their income based on gates are probably the lowest in the division. But they seem to be run and organised like a couple of proper football clubs. And they are reaping the rewards. I make no apologies for mentioning Wrexham again, not a fair comparison money wise as their owners are loaded but they came in with plans, recruited a brilliant experienced football man in Shaun Harvey and are reaping rewards. Barrow and Harrogate show that it is possible without pumping in loads of money.

I don't know whether Clem is just stubborn but his inability to put proper experienced football people in the club is beyond me. That's 2 EFL charges we've had now, due to 'admin errors'. It's not really acceptable and is thoroughly avoidable.

One other thing of concern that no one has mentioned. Tried to get Hall to commit that there won’t be any more late payments and that the ‘embargo’ on the summer window won’t happen.  He answered with some waffle that it only applies to this window and is suspended for next but then he watered it down by saying something like we’ll do our best but things happen. Not exactly reassuring, I think we need to brace ourselves for that getting triggered.

Apologies if this is something I should know. When exactly did Black sell the debenture to Power/Curran?

I just can’t help but think if it was before Clem took over he should have known about it and been prepared for a stitch up. If it was after, then why wasn’t he also given the chance to buy it.

From memory: companies house that showed the debenture existing, didn't show it changing hands to Power/Curran.

Clem's claim that the debenture gets triggered if:
We reach the championship
HMRC sue us (soapy tit wank)
STFC was sold

Seems odd, as someone pointed out the chronology of ownership also includes Jed's crew inbetween Black and Clem.

Too many people blindly accept this 'three day deadline' with the threat that they would regain control and plunge us into administration.

Not a shred of this makes any sense.

His response was that he checked with the lawyers and they said it could be called in in 3 days. The fact the same lawyers said that he didn’t need to notify the EFL of the share transfer doesn’t add much credibility.

The same lawyer whose wife got a % share in said football club?

Clem's legal team appears to be a useful only as a scapegoat.

When Clem talks about any big topics from now on - shares, EFL fines, ZA, Karachi, expenditure, budgets

my automatic position will be it's a lie, unless proof is provided.

and the question from a fan about whether that's something that can legally be enforced was skipped over

Nobody is ever going to give a 100% assurance that someone won’t make a mistake.

What he could have done is express how furious he would be.

But in any job, can you ever give 100% guarantee that a mistake won’t happen?

That was car crash TV last night, I watched it all and I came away thinking we learn pretty much nothing from that at all.

From the off Clems body language was in the defensive then half way through went into attack mode as he answered questions put at him, how unprofessional that he cannot stop himself using vulgarities for even an hour, I felt quite embarresed by his use of Anglo Saxon. It does not show passion it shows a lack of respect and self control.

I am erring away from Clem and co being outright crooks to being totally businessly inept.

We could have done without Phil King being so far up Clems arse he lost sight of sunshine at times, constantly stopping the line of questioning when it got to close to the knuckle.

The Pakistan thing was skirted over, stating that it is part of the clubs plans yet the club is not paying for it as its solely Zavs baby....yet they include it as part of the club plans, how can that be? either its part of the club or not, you cannot have it both ways.

Yes we know Clem saved the club, you dont need to use that as THE only point in his favour as you kept reminding us, its not just about saving us its about moving forwards and not backwards, we all know Clem does not have the funds to improve our league standing thats obvious or we would not have an embargo, so just own up and stop blustering out a series of lies.

Admit you can't afford to solely run the club, that you need outside investment, the fans will (in the main) fully understand and appreciate that and probably help too, but dont hide it as you will get found out and certainly dont lie about it as you seem to forget what you told people previously and change your lies, that is the sign of an untrustworthy liar.

When someone brought up about the EFL statement saying that it was "inferred that the club was up for sale" yet you constantly denied that despite obviously using that as a bargaining tool to the EFL for a more lenient deal.

Whatever you are Clem, one thing, you are a bad liar.

Oh and as for Anthony Hall, you sir seem a thoroughly odeus individual, constantly on edge waiting to attack comments you do not like and why now choose to apologise for basically calling fans "freeloaders"? maybe you should have apologised earlier and saved face.

I came away with the feeling that the "water clarity" level gone from "thick as shit" to "muddy as fuck".

Jamie Russell came accross quite well if a little snappy on player signings, the commercial chap spoke well and seems to know and do his job and Gunning came accross as quite a calming influence, no wonder the players seem to like him.

This:

Oh and as for Anthony Hall, you sir seem a thoroughly odieus individual, constantly on edge waiting to attack comments you do not like and why now choose to apologise for basically calling fans "freeloaders"? maybe you should have apologised earlier and saved face.

Should of come out a day later and apologised.

I agree about the ineptitude, but how does that explain the business he has grown - Axis. Surely you can’t do that without some degree of business acumen. We still don’t know about the debts that have been paid off. I presume they’ve just been rolled over into a personal ‘loan’ to Clem.

I remember asking Power on a phone in what % he was charging on his ‘loans’ - said he didn’t know, turned out it was worth £14,000 a month. If Clem is doing likewise it’s a bit disingenuous him saying his isn’t taking a salary out of the club.

What are the 2 other shareholders getting as a return on their shareholding?

It’s never ending.

Can't wait to see the detailed accounts to show why we are making losses. Open and transparent.

For something as basic and fundamental for a multi million pound company, yes

Clem's not wrong, that there is a lack of processes in place at STFC.
Looking at who is doing what in the offices with a view to cutting overheads is going to be bloody hard work.
They're trying to run before walking

He has stated that they are interest free loans

The PowerPoint stuff on Identity was reasonably interesting.

Ant & Clem delivered the 1,3 & 5 year plan bit with all the charisma of a couple of wet lettuces.
At least try and put some enthusiasm into it. Talk around each point & sell the vision if there really is one.

Clem is clearly not a front of house operator & ideally a CEO should be a polished communicator that can listen, elicit trust, exude honesty and know the workings of a football club inside out.

In general it's ok for any Chairman & CEO to be a couple of cunts just don't show it to staff or more importantly to the paying customers.

Stable door firmly shut, locked & barred.

It got triggered by the sale but doesn't mean it has to be enforced. Which is why it wasn't enforced on previous sales.

Whether the three days is correct we will never know.

haha, they can't please all the people all the time. Found it a bit pointless myself. Word salad without the meat of how it really translates to make the first team better other than "consistent approach". IMO it should help progression of youth team, that's the positive. But benefit the fist team - dunno.

The 1 year plan was unrealistic. I can see why they lobbed promotion on there though. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Don't think Black was that bothered to call them in, not as if he needed the money.
It was only when Power/Curran offered to buy them off him he thought OK, I can be done with it now.

Anyone that has been in the corporate world would have seen plenty of those presentations, they are usually bollocks to be fair.

Think you're right about Clem, have heard this from several people that have had dealings with him. Can we quite engaging one on one but dislikes the audience thing. As you say he needs a CEO that can do that kind of thing if he doesn't want/like to do it, Anthony Hall is just another car crash

I haven't watched the forum yet (that treat is for Friday) but the snippets I've seen on the socials suggest the powerpoint was pretty underwhelming. I do have to hand it to the powers that be for making a (probably token) gesture that they are trying to build something a bit longer term, but it's just so uninspiring and I don't really get the feeling that their heart is entirely in it. A bit like when you did your homework on the bus on the way into school.

As with a lot of things the club are doing currently, it does feel a bit like 'do the bare minimum'.

I doubt it was that he wasn't bothered more the likely hood of getting the money was zero before Clem took over.

I’m not sure the manager needed to be involved in heated discussions.

The company I work for had one earlier in the week. An hour and a half of pure, unadulterated balls that flew right over my head.

My favourite bit was Jamie Russell and the other guy patting themselves on the back for their IT skills putting the buzz words on to the badge. We are so amateur!

For someone who ate their own d*ck, you have quite a low level of empathy 😂

What is interesting is that they have the 3 buzzwords on the badge…but then you have the additional buzzwords running across the bottom of the badge (ie Salubritas et Industria) one of which is repeated.

It just looks so poor.

That makes sense. I guess i had assumed trigger = enforced.
In reading up on debentures, it's likely covered all in the terms and we'll also never know that either (understandably)

It was a shame that the forum did not run better, there was a lot of people there that wanted to ask questions (including Clem's fans), but when it started you had the group of people shouting their questions and that is how it continued sadly, they kept doing this, then you had Phil King & Vic Morgan trying to get to people to give them a mic and people shouting again, and King wanting to be in charge, then King climbing so far up Clems arse you may as well have given him a shovel to dig his sh!t out.

I know there is strength of feeling and people were annoyed and wanted answers - didn't we all -  but if it had been run correctly then maybe it would not have descended to that level and everyone would have got their question and point across, I would not blame this onto Morgan as I think he probably done the best he could in the circumstances, and seeing how he has handled other forums previously.

I did notice that any questions asked in advance did not get asked either as it seemed that Hall had decided that he wanted to go home.

If only there was a competent CEO in place that the fans could respect and would listen to him and potentially accept explanations, instead we have Clem who clearly does not like speaking to big groups and Hall who cant communicate but has to mumble with his answers and does not fill anyone with confidence.

In defence of the shouters that was partly Phil Kings and to a lesser extent Vic’s fault. They would let you ask the initial question but then would walk off with the mic after it was asked so you couldn’t follow up the answer you got. This resulted in people raising their voices in order to challenge what was said.

It's tricky because we don't know what paper trail exists outside the filing at Companies House, the ownership of the Debenture never changing as registered there.  On that basis, we can assume Black may have sold the rights to the Debentures to Power/Curran - and we can assume that with a high degree of confidence because it came up in the Power vs Standing trial.  

The Debentures were held against all assets of the business, meaning they essentially become worth something when certain events occur, like the ones you list.  The sale of the business to a new owner presents the opportunity for new funds to be available, so the Debentures regain their value.  Power made it public that he had negotiated with Black when he wrestled control from Jed, to avoid having to pay on that transfer of power.

The pending 50% handover of the Freehold is what created the sudden need to resolve the situation.  If the club had not been given that, the Debentures were still worthless to cash in - there clearly wasn't any cash on hand or assets worth forcing a sale of.  The freehold could easily be valued at more than the Debentures, so once that asset was on the books, the owner of the Debentures could force a sale or take control.

Whether it was 3 days or not, that transfer of assets was the trigger point.

Now, all that detail was known before the CG was purchased and before Clem took control.  To not know this again suggests terrible incompetence.  In fact, the Debentures were in the Accounts and published on Companies House since 2012.  The Standing case was public knowledge.  It smacks of being ill prepared and not paying attention, or not having the right people in place to run the club.

Actions!  Their actions here showed they can't run a fucking tea shop.

Debt - Clem is trying, in recent interviews and the forum, to claim he has cleared the debt.  In terms of having paid off who was owed money, he is correct.  In terms of the business that operates the football club that we support, the debt still exists, just owed to him and his business (we still do not know whether the wives are directly owed money by STFC or if that was handled as a private matter, so Clem would have loaned the club to pay the Debentures in a legal sense).

The first accounts did not list any interest payments payable - so on that front, the evidence thus far suggests it is not accumulating interest - not that it ever was, because it was trade creditors who were owed money and the Debentures did not appear to be interest bearing.

If it was STFC, and the "loan" was accruing interest, I assume this wouldn't be shown explicitly in the level of accounts we release?

It seems unlikely - the Accounts do have a note that the Director loaned the business money on an interest free basis.  We did pay 20k in interest payments in 21/22, but the source is not identified.  Then we list over 500k in borrowings < 1 year payment term.  I think others have said that we've used credit cards to pay for things in the past couple of years, we may well be accruing interest that is being charged to the company (assuming these were personal CC's).

Next Fans Forum:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7HmhrgTuQ

He was given half the ground by Nigel Eady, but he shouts and gets angry when questioned.

How does he make money out of the ground? If he’s struggling to fund the club how is any redevelopment going to get paid for.

1. A mistake is buying skimmed milk instead of semi-skimmed.
Not paying HMRC late, twice, and not reporting to the FA you have sold over 20% of the club.
2. He hasn’t paid a penny for the ground, the club was gifted it, and if you believe the rumours, they aren’t even paying the JV the rent on time.
3. Is he passionate? Or is he just a bloke who gets all angry and shouty when he’s being questioned?
4. Completely agree - because he hasn’t got a clue how to run a club.
5. Believing in loyalty isn’t an excuse for having a convicted money launderer around the club, trying to appoint him as vice-chairman and then claiming ‘he’s your mate’ when asked what his role actually is.
6. It’s pretty obvious he isn’t right for the club, 2 FA charges in the last 12 months, a low budget, falling crowds a small squad and a struggling team show that.

I was watching last night with headphones on so the wife could watch the TV.
She said to me at one point, that bloke with dark hair (Hall) looks a bit shifty. :)

I think she needs an eye test mate.

Hes way more than just a bit shifty ;)

Just had a memory jump up at me. did King keep saying yates about 50 times instead of Young?

Yates and Kemp repeat repeat.


 

Phil King couldnt have been anymore up the ownerships backside if he tried

Boycott the Dolphin now then?

Yes thank you it became apparent during the debate as they named him. Was a bit sheepish about his silly ST holder comment

It was all a bit embarassing in my view, it's fair that they had their say but to continue to disrupt the Q&A just meant it was a non event as not enough good questions were asked rather it was just 6-7 people shouting over each other.

Have to say my history of talking absolute incessant nonsense, I called out the possibility of going under umbongo some weeks ago. I'm not happy that it's true but no one else was mentioning the possibility of such a scenario - it now begs my original question:

If you were a skint owner and couldn't afford to buy players/invest in a competitive budget, wouldn't it make sense [for them] to manufacture a scenario which would put a club towards/into an embargo? That way you can then say ''oopsy daisy, we can't actually buy any players as we're under an embargo''

When I initially wrote similar a while back, it was with a bit of t-i-c and mild conspiracy but now the club are, I wouldn't put it past the current regime to have pulled that. Seems too clever for them though doesn't it?

They're not quite hustlers like Power, probably still corrupt but most definitely incompetent. Still, I heard Anthony got ''Star of the Week'' at Nursery but then called the Head Teacher a cunt which is why he had a face like a slapped arse all evening and Clem kept cracking his neck like he was getting ready to '...take a swing at ya.'.

What absolute fucking fun and games. It looks like I'm crying with laughter but I just had a emotional crying wank into the empty fucking cup that is STFC [at this moment in the clubs history]. I think this still gets worse before it gets better  :doh:

What about the cunts who gave Anthony a round of applause for saying sorry🤣

Next level bootlicking that is.

Hope there weren’t any TEF members joining in :D

Gavin Gunning on Fan's Forum:

There were some people there that don't have the best interests of the club at heart. I just hope the fans will get behind Clem as he is really getting behind us with the signings we have made and hopefully the ones we will make.

You have to realise that Clem is a businessman in Australia, so getting cash across is not as simple as you think.

I now have visions of Clem having to put cash on a round the world boat and it taking two months to get here, like an Ashes tour in the 1920s or something.

It's a stunning feet of shipping that businesses can even operate across borders.  Maybe Clem pays in sheep?

I hope he's talking about the hangers on rather than the actual fans? That's a pretty brave/stupid thing to say.

Be on about the fans wont he

On the bright side, "we don't have the best interests of the club at heart" is going to scan really poorly into songs.

Does anyone else read the live press release blogs in a Dublin drawl or just me? For Flynn I also read his words in his Welsh brogue. (accent, not shoe.)

He’s actually a bit of a dick isn’t he?! He’s obviously got an air of cockiness about him but will be interesting how he reacts once we have a couple of defeats and the questions that come his way. Not well is my suspicion.

 :facepalm:

I think I get money for getting people to sign up to Revolut, perhaps I should suggest it to Clem.

That is what you get from a 33 year old thrust into a management position. No experience to engage brain and know when to perhaps stay quiet.

Maybe Anthony Hall can start an OnlyFans site?  Confessions of CEO(Plumber).  Quicker access to cash for the club.  Maybe if Clem still had a profitable business in the UK, instead of one that he had to liquidate, moving money would have been easier.

Poor from him. Very poor. He's been a bit part employee and he has no right to question fans worried about their club.

Imagine the scenario of us losing heavily at Bradford, no wonder clem celebrated so hard. That would have been a very different forum. I was 100% behind Gav as he was never part of the problem but he should learn to shut the fuck up. It was his words that said how shit league 2 is, well Gav we are 14th in that shit league

Inexperience showing there. You deflect that question.

To be fair, he's bang on the money saying that there were people there who didn't have the Club's interests at heart...

He was sat beside them...

I read the quote and was about to post the same thing.

God help us

Great minds?

What a cunt.

Unless he is talking about the likes of Zav and Adam Hart of course, which he isn't.

It won't get the same reaction, but that comment is definitely worse than the freeloaders but he didn't say freeloaders comment, right?

So let me get this correct.
You are saying that Gavin Gunning is a cunt?

 just watched the film footage . bit of a shit show all round . The  pissed up supporters also sounded a bit twattish . Were they tef ers?

cuntish thing to say*

don't think so. not seen anyone admit it anyway

Gav Gunning. Pure company man. Nothing else. Stayed in clems spare bed.50+ years of supporting Swindon runs through my family, ST for 14 or so consecutive years, fork out hundreds on hundreds going home and away, yet you ask about Karachi and call out 39 days of late payments, mad Gav thinks you don’t have the club’s best interests at heart

I was one of them that made voice heard. About 8/9 of us. Nobody was “pissed” or a “yob” it’s just the chat the clem protectors are pushing.

 I am no 'protector ' of the PowerPoint plumber but the yelling geezers  sounded deranged . The mc s did nothing to help an orderly exchange of considered views .

On a totally different theme - best hope any prospective customers don't get their hands on the video.  It really showed why so few companies use the STFC facilities for corporate events.

 The bar worked hard to ensure everyone was refreshed

I was referring to the Amateur feel to the production.

 Yes understood. my post was a poor attempt at humour

As someone who dabbles in filming, it was frustrating to see whoever was operating the camera[s ] was allowing focus to pull out every time the auto focus had set. They weren't locking focus or had seemingly selected to lock focus toward the left corner of the frame. It's basic stuff.

And were the table used for the ''top table''...were they like premium pasting tables or something? I'd have had those tables dressed with red and white material. But when the club logo has been adapted for a presentation by people who aren't [to my knowledge] working in graphic design - then it's hardly surprising.

Also either hire a professional host or at least a professional speaker for the presentation. There was zero energy - many of us have been in a room where some middle management has bumbled on about COSHH with a few Powerpoint slides for a few hours but my god, the STFC hierarchy made 6yr olds ''Summer Project'' look professional  :cry:

The LS pod sounded like Sam M was making his case to be Comms Director at the club. If he wasn’t, he should be. Might be a very good long term signing (and would clearly end up as CEO!)

I hope not. I respect Sam and his opinion (if not always agree) and his investigative nature. Wouldn't want him to be lobotomised into reporting the corporate line.

To be fair I think Comms do a great job - they can't control the uncontrollables.
Sam seems a bit obsessed with the comms - I guess because that's what he does.
I'm starting to think that Sam is right that there isn't anything deliberately dodgy about Clem's operatation - they are just somewhat inexperienced/ unqualified at the top.
On reflection - I liked Clem's passion when he got a bit narked - suggests he's in it for the right reasons.

I still don't understand how you can run a business & not know where the expenditure is going....

You blag it and hope for the best :D

Jeez, I'd hate to think what a bad job looks like.

I think a lot of the time - at the Trust and at the Club - "bad comms" is used to mean "decisions and actions that the best PR in the world couldn't put a coat of gloss on".

It's the old polishing a turd problem.

It’s the fans fault.
Quite insulting to be honest.

I posted a couple of days ago I don’t think Gunning should have been involved in those sorts of discussions and not sure why he needed to be there as it was obviously going to get heated.

I'm not sure why they didn't stick to the original agenda of having an on the field discussion and an off the field discussion. They probably should have had Clem and co on first to face the music, then had the football side on after.

Exactly that Bob, pretty sure if Hodgetts would have been involved it would have been more professional.

In my opinion, its totally unprofessional that it only takes one direct or slightly difficult question for him to lose it. It's not passhun, it's being over defensive when he's being called out on his bull crap as well as continued swearing {couldn't give a hoot he's from Aus and that's ''normal'', he's supposedly an International businessman so you'd think this self professed cultured man would know a thing or two about basic etiquette}, in a public setting. He just went for the ''if I shout louder than anyone in the room then I'll command respect''' tactic. Probably saw it on Andrew Tate's ''How to be an Alpha Male'' YouTube vids  :D

Classic ''instantly reactive'' character rather than ''prepared response''. Especially when most of those ''difficult'' questions should have been easily answerable. It wasn't like anyone asked him something unrelated to the club. It was mostly stuff he knows about and is relative - caused via his running of the club.

For a person at the top, he really doesn't like being told ''it's on you buddy'' or to that effect. It's just a barrel of excuses. If he was partner in any other decent business {I'm not counting his own ffs} then the other partners would have quickly seen through his bs and there'd be restructuring to get the unprofessional oik out.

He who shouts loudest might well be heard but often has the most to hide and often the most weak. The empty vessel makes the loudest sound.

I gave up after about 20 minutes. Was there a whacking great fridge or something directly behind Russell? Why didn't they move those tables forward to give them more room to sit down!!

Also Phil King comes across as a right plonker. Walking around as if he owns the place and then confusing Young with Yates. Felt sorry for Vic Morgan. He's had some stick on Twitter which seems to be grossly unfair.

You did the right thing mate. It's the best part of two hours I'll never get back.

Also feel for Vic sas he's generally a good bloke. It's a weird one with Phil King because my previous experience of him in hospitality {admittedly a good ten years ago} was that whilst being quite bolshy, he entertained in an ok way. Maybe ''Pontins Compere'' would be about the level. At the forum though, you're right - he was an absolute tit.

The event needed one compere and one professional speaker {or someone good enough to do both}. Morgan alone is probably too reserved to control a room with Qs firing everywhere and King is too stupid. A proper Q and A structure would have worked. Good example, I went to a private screening of a TV show a few months back, which was followed by an open Q and A. The event didn't have any pre approved Qs and so everything was reactive after the screening. Some might say that the mood would be completely different but purely from a Q and A perspective, it was quite a simple initial instruction to the audience 'If you have a question, put your hand up and we'll bring a mic to you. Anyone else, please respect the person asking and we'll be able to get more questions for the panel'.

The key point in all of that was that they didn't just take the mic away once someone asked a question, they allowed a follow up on the answer {if required} or were given the opportunity to say ''thanks for your answer'' etc. At the Fans Forum, they didn't appear to do that and that was part of the problem. But also, a bigger part of the problem was that several of the answers - and mostly the ones coming from both the owner and CEO, were very poorly executed. As if they'd gone in blind, oblivious to any real issues or a need to fix/apologise for them.

Reminded me of the compere in The Office, when Brent went on stage at that nightclub in Slough.

An oddity has stuck in my mind from the Forum.  It seems Clem has a new bee in his bonnet, around a lease provided to a car washing "company" - I use the inverted comma's because they are notorious for attracting just the types Power would indeed let in, but Zav is still hanging around as well, it's sort of ironic.

Anyway, why is this such a big deal?  It's likely they were leased vacant land - it's not like someone is going to roll their car into the Legends Lounge.  As such, as much as it may be irritating that you can't use that space, why did we seemingly kick them out and make a big deal about it?  Clem seemed really irate with it - it's almost like the group that have remained have tried to scorch the earth of anything they saw as being Power linked, but got themselves into hot water as a result.  I this case, the business suing us for loss of earnings, which is a tricky case to make (in terms of it being a high number in a court case) but almost certainly something the club would lose if there is any sort of confirmation of a lease.  It's the same as the Mercedez, which I presume Power was clever enough to lease via the club and not personally.  As much as Clem and Zav may be irritated tp pick up the tab, tough shit, it's a cost of the business.

He seems to have spent far too much time and energy trying to fight the wrong battles.

In fact, the reason this stuck with me was because I was just thinking that the club has always done a bad job at utilising it's one great advantage in the local business market - affordable space.  The rent is really low in comparison to commercial rents, even before the JV.  Sub letting space is one of the things the club should be actively engaged in as a way of maximising that asset.  A car wash, which may be a bit dodgy, is not the best idea, but it's actually not the worst one either.  It's better than most other ones we've had for sweating the assets we have.

What sort of legitimate businesses and local community groups could lease affordable space at the county ground?

1 - cowork space for small businesses
2 - gym / boxing club
3 - webuyanycar
4 - administrative and spiritual home of Swindon sport clubs, like Bristol Sport at Ashton Gate
5 - mobile NHS services like giving blood
6 - restaurant and/or coffee shop, like Kofi Coffee at Ashton Gate
7 - local bakery selling to the trade and direct to local people
8 - travelodge / budget hotel

any others?

If the club really wants to be seen as a community club how about helping the homeless - shelter, food kitchen. OK, there’s no financial gain but the PR side would be huge.

great idea... charities are always strapped for cash, but need office space, and get grants from trusts and foundations. The Bristol Sport model is really interesting - obvs they have a millionaire owner but the role they've played in regenerating a dodgy part of Bristol is really inspiring. They plan to build a hotel at the ground next year so they can host international conferences and bigger music events.  I had a meeting there a few weeks ago and kept thinking "the last time I was here was when we won 4-0 in the early 90s".

https://www.bristol-sport.co.uk/who-we-are/

Correct. For saying that about fans asking questions. 100%.

This.

They do know. Shite like Karachi and Adam Harts 'strength and conditioning' with Zav and Hart on the take.



but but but a merc in Switzerland!!!!

It's a bit irritating, but how much time, money and effort has been wasted on that bloody Merc in Switzerland? How much could the settlement amount actually have been? I get that it's shit paying other people's bills, but would it not have been easier to just write that off and be done with it?

Not sure what they expected tbh if it was leased under the club and not LP

Probably spent more on bloody legal fees than the settlement cost.

Due to depreciation it cant have been that much surely?

Anyway, i hope it gets put in the club museum, the amount of trouble it has caused

Someone tried working on this with the club and got blown out by the football club

If they hadn't sacked off the Car Wash people, they'd be able to clean it up first as well.

:D

They do do this in their defence . Up until recently i collected all the left over food on matchdays and dropped off to the local car parks and the guys on the street. Unfortunately, family commitments and bad health has led to me notr being able to and getting reliable volunteers proved difficult. Pauld and others have helped and were amazing but it got a bit much .

We also did not get resolution on two key projects - the bike rack and the shooting nets for the training ground.  I presume Anthony Hall is slammed doing his introduction to Excel class, so has not been able to attend to these matters personally.

The shooting nets makes me chuckle every time I see it in the AB minutes.  It makes me visualise our training sessions with the Youth team having to put out some training tops to make goals and spending half the session arguing about whether it was in, wide or would have hit the post in a real goal.  Entire sessions come to a screeching halt when a shot is close to being over....

In regards to the car wash that's a bit of a shit area as well tbh. My understanding is that lee power leased it to Ranford(or another) for a absolute stupid amount of money and when we basically fucked them off and took it back he has counter sued us for loss of earnings for around 100k :eek:

Problem i have is people like Zav Austin etc would have known about this so should not be the suprise we think it is

That's my point, it's not a surprise - it's clear they just went after any contract Power had signed us up to, especially if there was any sense of it being personal.  I imagine it's not properly documented, in the form of a 12 page signed lease form, but there is probably something in a text that the Leaseholder has been able to show.  You never get full value on unearned income, but they will likely win something if it went to Court.  Either let them use it or settle.

I really meant using the CG as a hub.

They used to do the warm room in the JR room

Maybe Clem’s office would do - what with all that hot air.

Squash courts would be good

The car wash stuff doesn't seem  to make sense . My experience of dealing with commercial premises tells me that the arrangement  was unlikely to be a lease.  but if it was, and the tenant was turfed off the land they could  ask a court to get them back on it . some thoughts from  a legal bod would be interesting .

Outstanding figures like the EFL Hardship Loan, Swiss Toni's Car Lease, and Tommy Vercetti's Car Wash all would just be settled/written off for the relatively nominal figures they are. We're talking a good three years and it's probably no more than 25Ok. Even using gate income they could have easily paid these off by now.

And it would have been a handy excuse to use, to say that the planned transfer kitty for the summer has been impacted due to the settling of legacy debts  :soapy tit wank: