Thetownend.com

Has anyone got any interesting stories or beliefs with regard to paranormal activity?

It could anything from:

Seeing UFOs
Crop circle beliefs
Ghosts, do they exist?
Ouija boards, anyone ever done one?

My mum swears blind that she once saw a UFO.
It was probably 40+ years ago now, when she was with her boyfriend at the time.
She says they were sat on the bonnet of their car, a UFO hovvered above them for a fair few seconds then shot off.
It's not that I don't believe her, because she doesn't make up shit like that, but I find it very hard to believe to be honest, I suppose seeing is believing.

Anyone got any interesting paranormal stories?

Fred's ghost has returned apparently. For those who can't remember Fred's ghost, see the below thread.

http://thetownend.com/index.php/topic,27622.msg519744.html#msg519744

can't rule out ufo's as there is alot of unknown out there.
crop circles are made by people.
ghosts are peoples imaginations.
never done a ouija board but think it's probably bollocks.

My flatmate at uni used to claim our house was haunted.

The only time I got a bit creeped out was when I thought I saw him walk out of his room and up the stairs, I went up to talk to him and there was nobody there or in the house. Probablyy imagination though as it was late.

I once used a ouija (is that really how you spell it?) board to try and convince a bird that her recently dead dad wanted her to sleep with me.

I haven't seen a ghost, but my sister has in my flat about 35 years ago.
Also my local pub is definitely haunted, several of us (myself included) have heard a woman in high heels walk behind the bar, true.

i'm not ruling anything out but i'll remain sceptical until i have experience anything first had.

i'd like to experience some form of paranormal activity, i've been out a few times with a paranormal group but never "saw" anything

I saw axs in the Merlin yesterday. That was very spooky.

brilliant

ive been to a medium that knew nothing about me, but told me alot about myself from others from the other side, also it has been said that this life we are in now IS in fact hell and heaven awaits us :hmmm:

I don't believe in fortune telling or predictions of the future, for the simple fact that the future doesn't exist.

But does the past exist in any way other than how it's affected the present?

Well, no, the past is now history and cannot be changed, therefore is a constant.
The future is an infinite number of variables.

i tend to disagree, i believe there is life after death, :alien:

unquote sorry misread your post :headhurts:

Ahh, but if there were two or more possible pasts, both of which would result in an identical current future state, then which one happened? If the past no longer exists then did one definitely happen and the other not?

I don't want to get into the whole Schrodinger's cat thing because that just fucks my head up trying to understand it.

this is going all lost like

Heisenberg was driving along in a rush to get to a party, when disaster strikes, the unmistakeable sound of a police sirens and a copper indicating he needs to pull over.

The inevitable question comes. "Sir, do you know how fast you were going?"

"No," Heisenberg replies, "but I know exactly where I am."

[url width=100 height=25]http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm239/That-Crazy-Dude/ghostbusters.gif[/url]

I can confirm that, after about 20 months of inactivity that our visitor returned at about 4.15 this morning.

Obviously I was fast asleep, it was Charlie that alerted me.

Awoke to find the room ice cold and all the fur on Charlies back standing up and the sound of a small girl giggling at the foot of my bed.

I turned the light on but nothing there.

Went down and got a drink, came back up and the temperature had returned to normal.

Charlie has been skittish all day, really wierd feeling about the place at the moment.

It's complete bollocks.

There is no rational scientific proof or evidence that any of it exists. Therefore it doesn't. You can 'believe' all you like in the paranormal, ghosts, UFOs, the afterlife and gods all you want but that doesn't make them exist or real.

Nope.

Oh OK then

Oh fucking wise one

Why the fuck do you have to be like this all the time Alan ???

I was going to try and justify why I wrote my post but why the fuck should I  ?

You sanctimonious twat

Its just his opinion Mr T,no need to kick off.

Move along :)

Which Mr. T?

There's no rational scientific proof or evidence that love exists, what's your opinion on that?

the angry one

I cant think of anything scarier than a ghost child laughing at the end of the bed.Id sell the house,its freaking me out just thinking about it.

Yes there is. It's a physically measurable emotion that can record an increase in heart rate, pupil dilation and an increase in hormone release etc etc.

That's not an opinion, it is a fact.

The paranormal IS an opinion.

What if it was a ghost child clown which was also crying and looked like it was made of porcelain like a ghostly Victorian doll?

oooh you win

PS much like "I prefer doughnuts to croissants" or "I prefer red to blue". Just opinions.

2+2=4. That is a fact.

Not kicking off at all Yeo.

I just dont like the "This is my opinion therefor it is gospel" attitude that he always spouts.

Not kicking off one bit mate.

And, in fact it is not scary or initmidating one bit, it is more mischievous than anything.

have you ever seen her? what period clothes does she wear?

Again, I am not voicing an opinion Andy.

Show me cold hard real evidence. If you can't then it is not real and shut the fuck up calling me names. Cunt  ;D

have you ever done any research into your house?

Yeah, mine is built from bricks, mortar, concrete, wood and glass. Pretty fucking real. I would imagine Andy's is as well.

quit trollin

Never seen her but Jenna has smelt her lots of times when we first moved in. Been really wierd because have not had anything for nearly 2 years and then all of a sudden this morning she comes again.

Dont know why, but like I said, the place has got a feeling about it at the moment, cant put my finger on it but Charlie has not settled all day

No, can't. It's like giving up smoking or the gash. It will never happen.

Plenty

I have the deeds here dating back to 1729, Originally built by Lord Elcombe as a tied cottage. Once the estate grew my particular cottage was turned into a Surgery/Sick House

My house was built in 1990 on the remains of a pig farm. I don't know why but when I cook bacon it always smells really good.

I've seen some stuff i really cant explain, the most notable of which was when i was working nightshift for Royal Mail about 5 years ago. At about 4/4:30am I'd take the mail from Dorcan to the Highworth Delivery Office. One morning in winter (it was pitch black and I was fucking cold) I was pootling along the road between the South Marston Industrial Estate and Highworth, just gone past the entrance to the house on the left (not the farm that sells eggs, the one well before that) no other cars about, and I had my window open. I see in my passenger wing mirror a flash of light from way over on the left, over the hedge, and it settled right near my drivers side rear corner of the van. I am doing about 40 or 50mph at the time, and it keeps pace with me .Its lighting the road, hedges and trees up behind me like daylight, so fucking bright. I dunno if it was making any noise, but it wasn't audiable over the engine or the wind through the window. It freaked me the fuck out, i slowed right down to about 20 or so, I couldnt take my eyes off it. I was shitting it. It followed me til just about the brow of the hill that drops down into Highworth, and just as quick as it appeared, it flew off back over the hedge. I was so freaked out that when i got to the Highworth DO, i sat in my van until a postman arrived. I never spoke a word of this to anyone at work, or friends, or family.

I've seen lots of weird flashes coming from the field over that hedge as I've been driving about through the years, but never, ever anything like that again. still freaks me out.

Just about sums it up Alan

Put the can down and walk away from the computer

Did you ever do physics at school and the principles of light reflection and refraction? For fuck's sake, why do people try and make abnormal experiences 'paranormal'?

Ok, I'll seriously join in. I stay at a 450 year old pub/B&B in Warwick. When I first arrived I was regaled by the bar staff with tales about how it was 'haunted' and weird stuff happened. So one evening I was sat in the bar at a table next to a couple of lads. Completely randomly, one of these bloke's pints just fell off the table and smashed on the floor. I thought 'oh he is a bit pissed and must have knocked it'. The barman cleared it up and gave him another pint. Twenty minutes later this beer 'jumped off the table' and smashed as well. I was sort of watching and he was nowhere near it. Really bizarre and quite spooky.

A few weeks later I was sat at the same table as the builders. I had dinner and a beer. From nowhere my pint had suddenly smashed on the floor. 'Fuck me' I thought, 'there really is something going on in this place'. Anyway, the staff cleaned up, I had another pint and just sat there and watched it. Slowly, almost imperceptibly, it slid to the edge of the table on a film of moisture. I stopped it and called the landlord over. 'Hey, what's the story with this pint glass?' 'Oh,' he said, 'the pub is so old that the floor is on a slant and glasses slide off all of the time.'

No ghosts, not paranormal. Just basic gravity, fluid meniscus's and cant angles.

Sums up what? I'm offering an opinion, just like you. Prove you have ghosts Andy. Go on. Give me independently verifiable evidence. You can't. It's all in your head.

Did I say it was paranormal? No I did not. Read it again. Weird flashes yes, but I didnt call it paranormal. One other point, it was always dark (as it naturally would have to be to see bright flashes of light.) I never saw the point of origin of the light, and it was only ever on that stretch of road. now why, if it was light reflection or refraction, why wouldn't I see anything like it anywhere else on my vast travels? it wasn't like the headlights of an unseen car on a neighbouring road, it was always a massively bright, instant flash of light. If I had to liken it to anything, it would be the split-second flash of a strobe light.

So perhaps it was a strobe light? That's kinda near Honda, isn't it?

so you calling me a liar ?

at this point I am going to do what you should have done about an hour ago Alan.

Going to close the laptop down before I tell you what I really think of you

Good night all

No. If you're such a fountain of knowledge, attempt to explain the happenings in my original post. So far I've heard car, motorbike, helicopter search light, toy helicopter. none of which entirely explains the floating orb of light that flew over a fucking hedge.

Fine. I'm not calling you a liar, you believe what you want to believe. Just don't expect anybody else to believe you unless you have proof and evidence.

An analogy...there is a giant invisible spider sitting on the top of my head. No really, it is there... We could go on for hours and I would never convince you because you cannot see it, touch it, hear it, taste it or smell it. But no, I am convinced that it really, really is there.

Would you call me a liar?

The same argument applies to god, fairies, goblins, little green men, weird lights in the sky and Daggers staying up this season. Fantasy.

I'm just making rational suggestions. I wasn't there, I didn't take readings, have a photometer or a camera.

Ball lightning? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning) Not proven, but possible.

Am I being whooshed here, did you just do that on purpose as a joke?

 :toocool:

ice man.

I'm a proper atheist. I don't even believe in the free market.

If ghosts don't exist, how can you explain Casper?

he's a friendly ghost.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBHhCRH9m3c

For many years the idea of casper being a dead child was avoided by making out that ghosts were an entire different species, so he was born a ghost instead of becoming one.

This brings up some interesting ideas, could ghosts be some sort of undiscovered quantum gaseous intelligence, or maybe being breaking through from a close dimension or something.

Maybe ghosts are wifi electrical interference of forum personalities.

No.

'Undiscovered' is always used as as some kind of mantra that we don't know everything. All it really means is that the 'undiscovered' just retreats further and further away the more that mankind's knowledge improves.

'God rides a chariot in the sky and throws his flaming spears of thunder down upon us'. So we go and fly in the the atmosphere and find he isn't actually there, it is a build up of static electricity. Then it just goes on and on until we now have n+ dimensions and all sorts of unverifiable theories about where apparitions and such twaddle exist but we can't quite see them/it. So they might just as well not exist. When Casper pokes his nose through the veneer of a close dimension and we can get a probe up his arsehole then I will believe it. Until then his anus just doesn't exist.

Mate they made a film about casper, I think he's real.

I thought the true meaning of paranormal was without scientific explanation.

I've also seen many episodes of The X-Files. You can't fool me.

I thought it was an exploitative reality tv show about heavily disabled people trying to live everyday lives.

nah mate thats Lazytown

Nah mate, you're getting mixed up, you don't have to be paranoid about watching that anymore, she's 18 now.

Fabulous

I can now admit to knocking one out over her ?

she's actually 19 now, no worries what so ever.

happy days

something about that pink hair and 80's leggings

I bet sippo is like a chimp at the zoo

there's an ace video somewhere of a gorilla ape thing raping a frog.

Wasn't that on that Karl Pilkington thing the other night ?

Anyways, Charlie's gone to sleep so that means I can now

rape a frog?

Charlie is the name of his frog

http://thetownend.com/index.php/topic,39960.msg853070.html#msg853070

talk talk, some people believe it, some dont, why are you so insistant on proving everything wrong, let the people here, who want to talk about their experiences and leave it.

Toni, im gonna stay over yours one day, i wanna check it out

Well I have studied and investigated the paranormal and Spiritualism for about 25 years, and have quite a library of books which indicate that the paranormal as we call it is a reality. There are as yet incompletely understood laws which govern it.

I have sat in seances with physical mediums, and various phenomena took place which I will not mention here, because naturally you want my personal experiences to comment on. A very basic phenomenon is table tilting, and I'd seen it happen and was part of it several times.

The time came when I was leader of a physical circle in my own home, and we did a table tilt in good red light (40W bulb) as is customary. This time I was in control of the conditions completely, and we started off all touching the table lightly until it got moving, then when it was tilting well I asked all hands to be removed and none of us were touching it with any part of our bodies.  It continued to jump around quite violently in to ourlaps as we sat around it. Later it also tolted out replies to questions through a code.

This proved the paranormal for me absolutely. It matters not if you dont believe me, you have to do it yourself to believe.

And some excellent scientists and intellectuals proved it for themselves,  Sir William Crookes for one.

Has anyone posted the video of Derek Acorah's laughably creepy seance to speak to Michael Jackson yet?

Well go and win yourself a million dollars then if you are so sure.

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html (http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html)

You won't.

i have lived in a flat with a poltergeist that personally didnt bother me but scared the fuck out of visitors. believe what you want talk talk but i have seen stuff with my own sober eyes and not been on my own, witnesses, i love it.

Again, it is not a question of 'belief'. It is physical proof, scientific and reproducible that is required and never is. Without that it is all in your heads - which is fine. It's your brain. But you won't convince anybody else.

so why are you trying so hard to convince people otherwise?

did you get anal probed by a ghost once? and you now have a personal vendetta against them?

Prove they don't exist. if you're so completely sure they don't exist, show us why. You obviously know a lot more than anyone else here, so kindly prove it.

That's kinda like saying "Go on, show us you're not gay by not sucking that cock", but I understand what you're saying. He seems so determined to make people believe that they don't exist it's almost unhealthy.

My personal feeling is that I have never seen a ghost/poltergeist, so because of this I don't believe in them, that doesn't mean they don't exist.

thats pretty much my view point

Yarrp.

It's be foolish to discount something of which you have no evidence doesn't exist. But then it'd also be foolish to think that it does exist without evidence that it does.

When I was up country once, the village folk all insisted on telling me about their ghost. The ghost was often seen walking across one of the paddy fields at night and the showed me that particular field.

They went on and on about this ghost, going on to say about how the dogs would bark and they'd all be scared and stuff. One night, when they were having a bit of a do, they were reciting their favourite subject when one of the villagers from a nearby village said "That's odd, I often walk across that field myself late at night on my way home after a few drinks".

The guy who walked the field decided to stay late that night to see if he too could see the ghost, oddly enough, it didn't appear that night until shortly after he left to go home.

I was the only one who face palmed.

Randi is a complete asshole who makes a living from sensationalism and closed minded scepticism. He never mentions the positive evidence in favour of the paranormal, but uses his rigged challenge to make fun of a serious subject in order to make money. Remember that one proven case proves the paranormal, no matter how many are false or fail. The right conditions must be present, it's not like turning on  tap.

Professor David Fontana, a psychologist, wrote a book called " Is there an Afterlife" a few years ago. Anyone who reads this with an open mind would either have to say that it is all lies and false, or it is as he says in the book, in a very wide survey of all the evidence.

I've never been witness to any paranormal activity. I wouldn't profess to be a believer or a doubter. I'm open minded.

To refute the possibility of the paranormal because of no proof or scientific evidence is very closed minded.

Scientists and experts can't prove how or why the big bang occured, but here we all are...

Until you witness something yourself, it doesn't exist.

Doesn't matter if you believe something exists or not. To those who have witnessed something, it exists. To those who have not witnessed something, it does not exist. Until it happens then it exists.

Thing is if someone tells you something exists which you know doesn't exist you've got to ask yourself the motives of someone telling you something exists when you know it doesn't. Unless it does and you just haven't witnessed it yet. In which case you know it doesn't exist.



Pressed F5 but I'm still here.

I think that the older I get the more sceptical I become.

Explain this to me, pretty much everyone has a mobile phone with a camera/video yet not one conclusive picture or video exists of any paranormal activity and that goes for UFO's too.

Let's face it if anything does exist I'm sure Crispy would have captured it in one of his videos!!

I was thinking this earlier too, it's a very good point.

EDIT@ThePlagiarist
Wondered how long it would be till the Berkleyan Phenomenalists poked their noses in. They always turn up in debates like this, it's spooky, like they've got a sixth sense

PMSL !

I'm still hopeful that the LHC might reveal something interesting.

But until Brian Cox, Stephen Hawkins or some other famous science bod says that there are ghosts, I'm sitting firmly on the fence.

I made crop circles many years ago. They're a riot. Also got caught making one by the pigs and they didn't believe us, which was quite amusing.

I stayed here sometime last year, http://www.westonmanor.co.uk/ and stayed on the side of the hotel in another building. I went out for a few fags before sleep and noticed the lights come on in the upstairs corridors a few times. (They came on automatically in this building when you walked through the corridors.)

I remember hearing a guest or 2 upstairs and heard doors opening and closing and taps running and things. In the morning I was told I was the only person in the hotel and no one else went in or out of the buildin I stayed in. Nice. Needless to say the second night wasn't relaxed. :)


The life you experience after death is identical to the life you experience before birth.


Surely it's like religion though. The burden of proof is the responsibility of the believer, not the non-believer? For the record I'm indifferent to it. I've seen things that are unexplainable, but just dismiss it really. I always believe there a rational explanation however hard it might be to prove.

Sir William Crookes was a famous scientist of his time, and proved materialisations of spirit entities in to our physical conditions, with scientific experiments with a physical medium. This can be read about for example in "The History of Spiritualism", by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. ( Yes the author of Sherlock Holmes books, and a supporter of Spiritualism).

Unfortunately true physical mediums are very rare today, as it takes years of development, dedication to it is lacking in modern life, and they have often been accused of fraud, whether there was or not. Some are still tucked away in private circles for their own interest and satisfaction, and I don't blame them. Crookes was attacked by the scientific establishment,who put his career at risk for trying to tell his truth. He had to withdraw from investigations after that, but always maintained the same views.

I can't believe this post passed me by.

Did it work, Ben?

It's like something that Jeremy from Peep Show would attempt, genius.

No.

No he didn't.

Asides from the fact that I have read a thing or two about Crookes, you are preaching to an audience who have access to google.

Prove me wrong.

If you've studied it for 25 years and have books that only indicate that there could be paranormal activity then that's not proof.

i saw ufo , looking toward fairford.....
Cannot be a uk build plane as this thing moved like i have not seen before, Was not a latern either.

UFO's are hardly paranormal though. It is perfectly rational to imagine that they exist, in fact the universe is so large that it would be ludicrous to believe that they don't exist.

Whether they have visited Earth or not is another matter entirely, but they are far from being fantasy.

It's perfecly rational that aliens exist, for the reasons mentioned. UFO's do exist - i often see flying objects which i can't identify

Well of course. But for the sake of argument I was sticking with the visitor's from Mars type UFO's.

Bloody hell, I'm agreeing with TT. In my view its all bollocks but for those who believe in it, fair enough.

You put them all into the same basket way too easily.

If ghosts exist why has nobody harnessed them as sex toys?

All unproven. I'll also put goblins, elves, decent Scummers etc in the same bracket.

goblins exist. I can prove it.

http://thetownend.com/index.php/topic,6374.0.html

There is absolutely no reason for UFO's not to exist, none whatsoever. In fact it is mathematically almost impossible for them to not exist. There may not be proof yet, but their existence is extremely highly probable. Discovering aliens is no different to finding a new species in the Amazon. UFO's do not belong in that list.

Another odd one out is religion. The reason being that there is so much evidence showing that religion has got it all wrong.

Life after death, nobody can know for sure. Including yourself.

What if we don't exist?

I didn't say it was proof. I said indicated, which means that the people who wrote the accounts were convinced it was real and paranormal. Proof is difficult to define. As I said. I "proved" to myself that the paranormal is real, because the table tilting we did was not explained by the known laws of physics. It does not prove it to anyone else I speak to. And if you did it yourself, and you saw what I saw, would you dismiss it because it was impossible, even if you could not come up with a mundane explanation?

UFO's, by their very definition, exist.

I once had a medium spirit dude tell me how amazing he was because he'd just told a lady that she had an elderly relative who'd had arthritis.

No it isn't!

You know very well I cannot prove you wrong. I don't preach, and I have access to Google as well.
Neither of us were around at the time to question the accounts of what happened. I choose to believe what I read from Doyle and other accounts that it was genuine. I presume you are referring to an unproven allegation that Crookes was having an affair with the medium, Florence Cook, which made him a cheat. You are entitled to your own belief, as I am to mine.

I'll be open to believe in anything when somebody can show me a repeatable experiment giving predictable results.

Until then I'll stick with the idea that all the spiritualism stuff is just a way for menopausal ladies to feel better about their empty lives, which is fine if it makes them happy.

I was on holiday in Greece one year sat in the garden of the villa watching meteorites when I saw a satellite (slow moving and bright) and waiting for it to slowly disappear (as they travelling beyond the reflection of the suns ray) but as it got directly above us it suddenly changed direction 90 degrees and shot off into the distance at a speed that must have been at least 10 times faster... totally freaky moment as it was way to high to be a plane and it's speed meant it was out of sight with about half a second...  It was one of those moments when we all looked at each other and just went 'What the fuck...'

Nope.

I am referring to the FACT that what Cookes thought were apparitions of sorts were simply scientific phenomena.

Just because you choose to believe something does not make it proof. Don't try to redefine 'proof'. And if you are stating something as fact I.E: "Cookes proved it", then you are preaching.

You are going on blind faith pal, do you read the bible as well?

The real physical universe is composed of matter and energy. If that is the case then you can detect and measure both of them. Objects or forces (the application of energy) do not materialise out of nothing and neither do they disappear into thin air. We all know this from our everyday experience.

This is all about truth. Truth is reality. The burden of proof lies with the person who proposes a theory. I refer you back to my invisible spider sat on my head post. I can rant and rave about how much I BELIEVE that it is there, but until I can prove with physical evidence in the form of detection or measurement then I have no right to insist that anybody else should agree with me.

Wobbly tables lifted up by the knees of conmen in darkened rooms, half awake dream residue ghosts, lights in the sky and fairies at the bottom of the garden can either be physically real or not. If they are then there is a rational real explanation. If not then they must be in the individual's mind.

The truth hurts and people do not like having their delusions blown away. If you can't handle it then I suggest that you seek professional mental help.

Ah, come on. Don't start having a go at the fairies. That's going too far.

haha,

you do make me laugh, i've never witnessed someone so hell bent on trying to put their point accross.

We get it Talk Talk, you dont believe in it, why does it get to you some much that some people do?

 :D

It is not a question of beleving in it or not. The point is that it is all fictional, non-existant and a waste of human capacity. If people stopped believing in god for example then they could use their brains to make their own rational decisions about improving their lives and the world based on universally preferable behavior (i.e. common morality).

I feel strongly about it because it is just such a waste.

common morality is an interesting choice of words Talk Talk, do you think there's some sort of binding absolute moral right which we should all abide too?

I'm open to all that is the 'paranormal'. I feel that there must be more to our life on earth. Where we go after we die is unknown, but i think you've got to be very small minded to think that there isn't anything else.

Unfortunately my sister passed away just over three years ago. I had a very good friend of mine who about 6 months or so later went to see Psychic. She got in contact with me a day or so after asking to meet up as soon as possible as she had some information to give me.

It turned out that during the meeting with the physic. A girl had got in contact and the Psychic asked whether she knew someone that had died in an accident recently. (My friend didn't let on her name) I've listened to the tape and it freaked me the fuck out big time. I haven't got the exact dialogue on me but it went a bit like this.

Psychic: Do you know someone that has died recently?
Girl: Yes i know of someone
Psychic: She's saying something about a bridge
Girl: I think i have an idea who you're on about
Psychic: She's coming across as a young girl and wants to get a message across
Girl: Ummm.. Ok
Psychic: I'm getting some sort of name beginning with a C.... Char..... Charlie?
Girl: I think the name you maybe looking for is Charlotte?
Psychic: Yes.. i'm getting that now. Charlotte wants to say to she's ok and is peaceful.

Now i don't believe in stuff like this. But this friend of mine helped me through all the shit i had on my plate at the time. My friend met my sister once before she passed but that was a way of getting a message me perhaps? I went to see a Psychic about a month or so after and got fuck all in the way of communication with 'the other side'.

Just find it strange that the Psychic had no way of knowing my sister and it wasn’t related in any way, shape or form to my friend!

Haha. well played sir.

I'm not getting whooshed in this thread.

if psychics talk to dead people,how come they can't even get their names right without prompting from those who sit there hoping to hear from dead folk?

OK then, we will have to agree to disagree. I would like to ask one question for your views before I give up on this as it's going nowhere.

I stated, as I would in a Court of Law if questioned under oath, that I witnessed a table tilt, and there was no human physical agency doing it, against the laws of physics.  I am a trained scientist myself and by no means gullible. Three more witnesses were there and would testify too.

As I understand it, the possibilities are:

(1) I have lied to you with intention to deceive
(2) We were all deceived, because we were not intelligent enough to realise we were touching the table, and fooled ourselves
(3) It was a real physical phenomenon, paranormal compared to present knowledge.
(4) It could not have happpened, therefore did not, no need to even look at it.
(5) Other I cant think of.

Select which statements fit your own views.

From Phoenix Nights

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avgGMJPEeuk

Arriba, i understand where you're coming from but the way i see it. For someone to have no relations to this friend of mine to have a message sent to her is, for me, weird!

I can totally understand why people don't believe but i'm under the view that everything happens for a reason. Why? I just don'y know!

my point wasn't in direct reference to your post.
just a general point.
were you the lad who lost his sister from the bridge over the a419?
i remember someone posting about it at the time,but forget who made that post.

I think the idea that "something happened that I don't understand" equals "something happened that nobody can explain in current established physical terms, must be something spooky" is not only incredibly arrogant, but incredibly closed minded.

Maybe the table moved (is that what you're saying happened? you were sat around a table and it tilted slightly?), maybe you'd had too many bevys, maybe you imagined it, but you're only applying a spritual explanation too it because that's what you're looking for.

I've read Lord of the Rings too many times, I could take it as evidence that there was somebody with some sort of invisibility ring wandering around the room and fucking about with you.

Did you try and repeat the experiment and get the same thing to happen again, recreate the exact situation in which the 'table tilt' happened? If not it's not exactly scientific.

I honestly thought you were trolling the thread, that seems like a complete textbook example of cold reading.

This thread is a waste of bandwidth. Have you ever tried telling one of the god squad that god isn't real? good fun but waste of time.

Basically if anyone believes this lights in the sky ghosts in the attic stuff fair enough, just don't expect to be taken seriously by anyone except religious nutters or cult members.

If I did a bit of research I would prove that most people who see ghosts and aliens have empty lives.

The closest tangible thing to religion which exists and is provable is following a football club. The town end is my chapel!! :smugfu:

It's called cold reading.

I saw a magician pull a rabbit from a hat once. He must have been using real magic.

I understand the cold reading theory if it. To be honest - i had to look it up! I'm still a believer none the less...  :)

What happened to me saturday night was chilling.  Just turned the light off got into bed, said good night to sussex and was just nodding off and I heard this whistling.  it was a human whistle and I thought it was outside and someone just walking down the footpath at the end of our garden but the position of the whistle never moved.  It was a happy whistle.  Then it all went cold around me and every hair on my body stood on end, it was coming from next to my bed! I was paralysed with fear and I wanted shout fpr Paul or grab hold of him but I couldn't move, I broke out in a cold sweat, then it felt like someone put their hand around the back of my neck and then stroked my hair!! This really has scared me!

I am scared of the dark at the best of times but in the last year strange things have been happening around the house.  I never feel alone and always have someone watching me.  There is def something there, every now and again I get a waft of musty old man ( that isn't sussex) it seems to follow me, before it has only ever been on the landing or stairs. I have named him Arthur!

I have been on ghost hunts and taught how to try and communicate but I daren't on my own! eeeeek.  

Reg?

Its fatbury...

derek acorah is in swindon on wednesday - he can settle this once and for all!

Cold reading is an art, not a theory.

When you say your paralysed with dear, were you properly paralysed?

I ask because all my life I've suffered with Sleep Paralysis and this is often accompanied by hellish fear along with voices, hallucinations, the sensation of being shaken or thrown around and the horrible feeling of not being alone. It's only because I suffer with this on an almost nightly basis that I'm able to dismiss it all entirely, although as a child that was harder.

I've often seen someone strangling me, little people or children (more like a kind of troll like figure to be honest) pounding my chest, people stood looking over me, whispering noises, being tickled and any number of strange things. It's never nice, but nowadays I've learned to almost find it quite fun in a being made jump kind of way.

I've never witnessed you, ergo you don't exist.


The real physical universe materialised out of nothing and is continuing to grow into the nothingness...

I'm often paralysed with dear. It's a fetish of mine.

Sorry, but you don't have a clue, you weren't there and you obviously underestimate my intelligence. It was not a scientific experiment in terms of repeatability. There have been other occasions when I have experienced table tilting and know it was not explainable in normal terms. However this is pointless, nobody can be expected to see my viewpoint unless they had seen the same event with their own eyes and reasoning.
 I am annoyed to be termed arrogant and closed minded, I always thought myself the opposite. Ah well as others see you...

Vealy?

Anyway, that is mental Barry. No wonder you are a bit of a nutter ;) When my misses was in hospital with a kidney infection, she had all sorts of stuff 'happen' to her. She said some guy tried to strangle her, ghosts sat on her bed, bed levitating and stuff. The thing is, I was in the room with her at the time and saw nowt. We reckon it was a combination of a high fever and powerful drugs.

It does go to show though that there are so many questions left unanswered and things are not always necessarily what they seem.

 :doh: Stupid typo. *Deer

Are you taking the mick? If not then bloody hell!!

You physically cannot move - I wish I could say that I was asleep or it was a dream but it was before I had even gone to sleep, I had only just got into bed and I was sober :(

haha oops

No I'm serious. It happens most often as I start to drift off or have just drifted off. It's like I'm asleep but not. I often get a rushing sound in my ears first, like when you screw your eyes closed, then I feel like I'm being pushed about or doing somersaults. I then begin to feel quite scared and often become aware of someone being in the room. If I then open my eyes I occasionally see things (only a few times a year). The most common is a troll like thing sat on my chest, sometimes beating my chest or strangling me or a shadowy looking old women or man (often Abraham Lincoln) in the corner of my room. If I keep my eyes open the paralysis subsides and then everything is fine fairly quickly. I often just close my eyes and go back to sleep though, as it takes a bit of bravery! :)

As you can't move or make a noise though it's pretty unsettling, especially when I wake into that state from a dream.

The exorcism of Emily Rose springs to mind here.

Hallow'een is going to be fun this year...

Nothing paranormal about Sleep Paralysis:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

Sort of like a waking dream.

I'd been wondering where my girlfriend kept disappearing to every night.

Nothing paranormal about wanking dreams buddy. I have em all the time

Did anyone watch Derren Brown Investiagtes: The Ghost Hunter? It was a really interesting watch and shows how people can be manipulated/made to think other forces are at work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1aXO2wlQkk&has_verified=1

I think there are a lot of things in the world which cannot be explained, at least not conclusively. This is paranormal in the sense that there is yet a decent scientific explanation.

A lot can be explained however and therefore isn't paranormal.

Did Fred ever find out what happened?

Very wierd.

Oh and another episode, which really busted the myth of mediums:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhYSI5sWi8s&feature=channel&has_verified=1

11 pages and not one mention of linda beaton.

I prefer Oxford Beaton.

There is now...

I often waking up having no recollection of how I got home, or even what happened when I was out.
Spooky eh?

Absolutely there is. We all know it - in that is against our morals to murder, rape, physically assault, steal, commit fraud and so on. Granted not everybody sticks to it, but even those people know that fundamentally it is wrong.

It applies to everybody in the world, no matter what race. This is because it is favourable to the species, if it wasn't then the human race would have died out long ago.

It distils down to one phrase: "nobody should initiate the use of force against another person or their property". The problems in the world are caused by human constructs such as religious groups and governments. These entities do not really exist, only people exist. If morals are universal then they should apply to the people within them. Instead we have religious leaders who incite murder by saying "kill the infidels and the non-believers". Governments who invade other countries and kill hundreds of thousands of civilians. Governments who steal from their citizens through taxes under threat of imprisonment. Churches whose leaders condone the rape of innocent children. Does an average person transform into someone different when he or she puts on a uniform or a funny hat or walks through the doors of a parliament? No.

When the realisation that these entities commit acts that are immoral and evil becomes widespread then we will dispense with them and the world will be a much, much better place. That's why I feel so strongly about wasting time believing in all this paranormal rubbish - there are much higher ideals that we can all strive to attain through the use of reason and evidence.

Fred you should have us believers over for an evening of trying to contact your little girl.

Paranormal activity is just science the human race dosn't understand yet.
Things that seem weird now will be easily explained in years to come.
If you had talked about electricity 200 years ago you would have been burnt for witchdom...nice word witchdom.

That's a very silly argument. How could you talk about electricity when it hadn't been discovered?

Ummm, I don't think Leefer meant the electricity you get from sockets in the wall.

Fukin hell..............people thought about helicopters and aeroplanes centuries ago....dont mean they were invented then...electicity and other modern things were thought of years before they became something we used.......a rocket to the moon wasn't invented 200 years back....dont mean that people didn't think about it.

Leefer, the first battery was invented 200 years ago, the century before electrostatic generators were being built and Franklin did his kite experiment thing.

Ergo, electricity was definitely discovered by 1810.

The actual dates and facts are quite irrelevant, the point remains.

TT is being very narrow minded and I am thinking that perhaps this is not a discussion for him.

Theories have always been conjured up to deal with the unexplained. The sun circles around the earth. Thor rides a chariot in the sky and throws thunderbolts down. The earth is flat. The Chinese believed that an eclipse was caused by a giant dragon eating the moon so they made a hell of a racket to frighten it off, which unsurprisingly worked.

It doesn't mean they were right at the time and were ultimately proved to be wrong. There was no truth to any of these theories, they were just that - theories waiting for proof. The advancement of thought, reason, evidence, knowledge and science gave the answers. The difference between the above and paranormal crap is that all of the above are real, consistent and reproducible.

So to say that paranormal activity is just things that science hasn't discovered yet is plain silly. It doesn't exist.

Cheers Sie....my point really is that things we take for granted today like TV,Radio Texting etc would have been incredible inventions centuries ago........people may have wondered if these things would ever happen.
So things we dont understand today(ie paranormal activity)may be easily explained in the future....we maybe may even use it to help in our daily tasks.

What about dimensions that we have not found yet, or dimensions that we have not even been able to imagine?

Who are you einstein....just because we dont understand it...dosn't mean it dosn't exist?
If one day we understand it....then it has always existed 8)

That's exactly my thinking too.

I suspect that TT is trolling. Or is he really that ignorant?

If you can show me physical proof for another dimension then I will agree that it exists. You can't, so therefore it is equivalent to not existing. It's a pointless argument.

I can come up with as many sci-fi scenarios as the next bloke for how the universe (or parallel universes or string theories or blah blah blah) could be, but that does not make them real. They are all in the mind.

Going back to the Casper analogy, if the incredible advanced alien life forms that could exist in this other dimension poke their noses into ours then great, I will wholeheartedly embrace them (probably wearing a radiation suit). Until then, it's all cock waffle.

Jeez, you are hard work. If there is a repeatable measurable physical phenomenon, say like the sun going down in the west and rising in the east then it does exist. Understanding and explanation is neither here or there. It happens.

Paranormal bollocks cannot be measured or repeated consistently. Therefore it does not exist.

 
Talk Talk...........lets leave it there ;D

So prior to gravity being discovered and subsequently measured, it didn't actually exist?

Has anyone watched those Derren Brown videos yet? They're quite entertaining.

I'm watching one now, in between allowing TT to get under my skin.

So then professor, please do tell us how many dimensions there are!

Yes, it did exist. Obviously. Unless rocks fall upwards when released. The theory of gravitation didn't need to be there for a real, measurable physical effect to happen. Science explains, it doesn't create.

Have you got proof he's actually under your skin?

Otherwise, it doesnt exist - or something.

May take on it - surely we haven't discovered and explained everything in the entire universe. There must be something out there we haven't currently got the technology to see or the intelligence to prove at this point. Does not mean it isn't potentially out there somewhere.

I still want you to tell us all how many dimensions there are.

You are really getting on my tits. Not that I have proof of that, as Dave quite rightly points out, if he exists.

Meh. It depends on if your frame of reference. Spatial, 3. Temporal, 1. String and M-theory and all that goes up to about 11 I seem to remember. But they are just theories and there is no evidence for them.

PS quantum physics allows for an infinite number, but they aren't spatial or physical, rather more functional.

In a way I agree with Talk Talk, but unfortunately theres no reasoning with (a) the god squad or (b) ghost hunters... but in general the things which are invisible to us are sometimes only because we haven't been taught to see them. :doh:

It's a common analogy in trading, like compare the first time you saw a chart of the FTSE100, to if you looked at the very same chart now, with two five ten however many years of reading charts. You will see infinitely more patterns which always existed in the chart when you first looked at it, but your brain wasn't conditioned to read them, therefore they remained completely invisible.

Think of the first time you read a foreign language or something. :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

so going back to my previous point...

if the universe itself materialised out of nothing and is continuing to grow into that nothing then that nothing does not exist and therefore it is not possible for the universe to be growing into it but it is.

i know that there is an infinate part of the universe that doesn't exist at this very moment in time but it soon will.

if this 'nothing' is completely unquatifiable then it is both equally possible and not possible that something 'else' is existing in that 'void' as we are to understand it.

if that void does have something else and our universe is inordinately close to growing into the void then is it not entirely possible that the void is inversely growing into the universe and the 'paranormal' is phenomena that we are experiencing in the cross over between the two... whatevers?

Ah, metaphysics.

Generally it falls into three camps. "Brain in a tank", "higher being manipulating us" and "physical reality".

No prizes for guessing which one is right.

The theory is actually that there are 12 dimensions.

but what do the 11/12  dimensions contain, what are they exactly?

Theories  ::)

That's what Leefer has been saying though. He's not saying 'ghosts exist and in a few years time science will prove that'. More like there is an already occurring phenomenon which will be explained by science in a few years time, then possibly harnessed for modern living. Like electricity was back in the day.

 

I'm speechless.

There was once a time that such discussions would flourish in the TEF. Who the fuck let this ignorant troll in?

he is a ghost who lets himself in.woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Nobody knows where the universe came from. We have no knowledge of it and our instrumentation can only measure back so far (in terms of big bang induced background radiation, astronomy of very ancient stars etc). So saying that it came from "nothing" is an assumption, not fact. Current models suggest that the universe is expanding but thirty years ago that model was based on a universe that cyclically expanded then contracted.

The bottom line is that we cannot see out to the edge of universe. All we know about is what is close to that edge. Just like the end of the earth two thousand years ago, we can only theorise until our measurements improve.

Perhaps the TEF is experiencing sleep paralysis.

Abuse does not become you. Try being keyboardless.

and surely there you've blown your whole argument to pieces?

i neither believe or disbelieve in paranormal activity - i once had an experience that was pretty chilling but it could have been anything.

but you've just said we can only theorise until our measurements improve - who's to say that one day measurements will not show the 'paranormal' to exit?

no matter what you say now the above statement nullifies it

Hang on a minute. If the paranormal can't be proved, it's bullshit. But if the existence of the universe can't be proved, it's ok because it will in years to come?

I don't think Talk Talk really understands science, it's good he's so enthusiastic about it though.

I think he's just being a drunken troll, that's my theory anyway.

the Derren Brown 'ghost busting' thingamy is cool.

Completely agree, I tried to tell him last night to put the can down and walk away from the PC but he has just continued to make even more of a dick of himself.

I am more annoyed with myself for rising to it and getting annoyed by it

No it doesn't at all. Being hit by lightning has a very real physical effect. Five hundred years ago you might not have had a voltmeter or ammeter to measure the electricity (or even knew what it was) but you could tell from the charred flesh that you had experience it. Being breathed on by a ghost or some other twaddle is not proof. There is no physical evidence for it.


Patronising quote of the year young Benjamin  ;D

Take a film of your ghost then. Put a recording thermometer in the room. Prove it.

You won't. You can't.

Erm, the existence of the universe is proven in my experience. It's kinda like all around me? I can tell because all of my senses tell me so.

I quite like the one about Joe Power (the medium). You start off thinking he's all kinds of awesome.

Correct....it is a good posability that the Ghost of Queen Victoria will be looking amused in future years......and we will harness that,maybe put her in Maddam Tussauds greeting people......and no one will think it strange :D

But abiding by holy TalkTalk's rules and laws of all things every man on earth should take as gospel truth; if you can't prove how or why it exists, then it doesn't.

I've got a video camera and a thermometer. What do I do next?

Actually don't answer that.

You read but do not understand. That's not what I have been saying. You don't have to prove how or why, just give real evidence that whatever you believe in exists. Then I and everybody else will take it as fact.

He is being sarcastic all the way through, but so subtly that the 'mediums' don't get it.

I don't think he was being that sarcastic, on a scale of one to extremely sarcastic it was only medium sarcasm.

For an extra pound into the Gypsies palm.....you can go large.

I don't understand because you're spouting a load of contradictory bollocks.

Example? I will try and help you out here, you do seem to have a problem getting the hang of this.

Please do stop feeding the troll. It's getting embarrassing.

To be fair...Talk Talk walks the walk.....and sticks to his guns.

There's one Talk Talk

I believe that neutrinos exist although it's a bit of a leap of faith, I couldn't personally prove they are there. They gave us loads of free sandwiches for lunch just before that lecture and I fell asleep. Neutrinos will now forever be a mystery to me.

Oxides and Neutrinos i believe Ben.

The 'ghost photo' guy is great.

It reminds me of the Daily Mail making out pictures of Princess Di from the clouds.

That was in response to


You can't talk about electricity if it hasn't been discovered. It's like me talking about the the ZX81 in 1976.

But he's also a condescending little prick. I can't understand it or explain it, but it is a repeatable and measurable phenomenon so it must be fact.

Abuse is the last resort of the beaten.

I know, I've been there before.

Not abuse, just an observation.

I would just like to say, Alan you are a cunt

Thanks.

Measured any good ghosts recently?

Like gravity you mean.

Anyway, have a read up on Benjamin Franklin who actually died over 200 years ago, he did a few experiments with electricity, so it definitely did exist prior to that.

It was Leefer who gave the date, not me.

Gravity always existed, it might not have had a name or a theory but it has always had an effect. Perhaps the cavemen called it 'ouch'.

what's this thread about again?

He did, but you were the one who said it hadn't been discovered.

Have a look at the evidence, it's there in the previous pages.

Talk Talk has just proved epic failure does exist.

I'm confused talk talk, are you saying ghosts are like gravity or electricity? because I think both of them exist.

Ghosts are recordings of time naturally captured. I can't flop out their cocks to see how long they are!

You misinterpreted what I said. 'Electricity' as a word did not exist before it was coined for a theory. I did not say that electricity did not exist, it blatantly did, unless lightning and static electricity magically appeared with Benjamin Franklin.

I was being obtuse.

Anyway, none of this proves that paranormal activity is real, cos it just ain't.

Apart from the pornhub, this is the most fun I've had on the internet in over 200 years.

Hahahahaha.

So the people who have seen it first hand are lying are they? Every single one of them? Okay then....

And round we go again. Nobody suggested that they are lying. They can believe (in their heads) whatever they want and surely do. But until they prove what they believe, repeatedly and under observation they have no right to expect anybody else to.

I apologise, i couldn't be arsed to read the whole thread - Too much bitching for my liking! But how do YOU personally explain what happened in Fred's case (Not the most recent happening, but the one with the mirror moving from its fixed place on the wall, to the door - There's a link in this thread about it, if y'missed it). Just curious as to what you think

prove it

Nobody is expecting anybody to believe them.

But you are expecting everybody to believe that they don't exist. you are worse than the muppet woman from the Dawkins thread that I posted a while ago.

Exactly....photographs from the past...or recent present.

I don't have to explain it, I wasn't there. I don't know if it happened or not.

Last week a man came to my door and tried to sell me double glazing. You can choose to believe me if you want. But unless I have real evidence then it's your call.

Did he have a name?

Mr BOGOF.

Oh come on, you know what i mean....In other words you can't explain it. That's all you needed to say

I got a snake, man!!

One time I fed it some beer, man!!

It was slithering this way and that... it was all FUCKED UP!!



Believe what you will. The burden of proof however, lies solely with me.
 :-[

I don't have to Andy. The burden of proof is with you. You are claiming that this happened.

I was driving home tonight and five hundred yellow monkeys swung out of the trees in front of my car. Amazing it was.

See what I mean?

Yes, fair enough.

A pint of Cobra?

Prove it motherfucker. I dare you to fucking prove it.

No shit! The same happened to me!

I don't feel I need to or am obligated to in all honesty

If you don't believe me thats just fine, hardly going to lose sleep over what someone like you thinks

But you are happy to lose sleep over something that is made up?

like what ?

Like your ghost. I thought you said that it wakes you up.

Two old cunts with a combined age of well over 100 years arguing about who saw a ghost.

I'm just glad the internet isn't real :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

Actually, it was his dog. I can corroborate that Fred's dog is real.

200 years actually. I taught Benjamin Franklin everything he knew about electricity.

got there before me Si

and do you know something ? ............... I dont mind being called a cunt or what ever, what I will not do is stand by and have someone call me a liar.

What an absolute wanker

Pedantic. Ghost makes dog wake Fred up. Fred sees ghost.

More likely that dog half wakes Fred up whose arse is hanging out of the duvet and so is freezing cold. A dream about Mex's obsession with little girl's feet drifts slowly drifts away...wakes up properly. Room at normal temperature. No ghost. Dog happy for attention.

Dude I wouldn't give a fuck about what is said on the internet.

Unless someones calls me a mother fucking mother fucker then theres hell to pay. Fury unleashed.

 :crash:

Show me where I have called you a liar, Andy.

Time you put the beer down me old mate.

At first, i thought you were Talk Talk under a different alias, but you're actually quite funny, so you can't be.

Talk Talk - Stop trolling

and tell me where I have said that I have seen a ghost ?

So, going by TT's logic, all those who believed that the earth wasn't flat, when everyone else believed it was, were talking bollocks?

There are things that can't yet be explained. It neither makes them true or false.

Open mindness isn't your strong point Alan, is it?

Ok then, small girl giggling. That sounds like one of Mex's successes to me, either way.

I'm very open minded. Show me that the earth is flat and I will take it as fact. Introduce me to the aliens who live amongst us and yup, that's good enough. Get me an appointment with god and I will accept that a bloke with a white beard really does live upstairs.

Until then...

Back on topic a bit. Has anyone thought they've ever dreamt stuff which then actually happened at a later date?

I went though a spell of about a year when I was 10 or 11 when this happened to me. It was seriously freaky and I actually started to believe I was dreaming stuff in the future. In hindsight I don't think that was the case (I can elaborate why if anyone is remotely interested) but there were things which happened which turned out quite accurate and my mum and dad were getting freaked out by it too. It was nearly all inconsequential stuff which happened and always to me and not other people.

Thereby missing the whole concept of having an open mind.....

I don't believe in little green men, but that doesn't mean I don't believe in them. There is statistical evidence showing that alien life forms do, in all probability exist. You would be a moron to dismiss that just because you haven't experienced it. You presumably believe in men landing on the moon, yet you haven't personally witnessed it first hand.

Erm, yes it does.

Yeah you will :)

Erm no it doesn't. It's called having an open mind. I have no evidence that proves they exist and I have no evidence to prove they don't. Therefore I have an open mind on the subject. It's not that difficult a concept to grasp, is it?

Not at all. An open mind means that you will accept new facts. Being religious or dogmatic (for example) means you will not.


Little green men may well exist. It is possible. But not FACT.

I don't have to 'believe' that men landed on the moon. They did. Rock samples in excess of many kilograms that do not exist on earth have been recovered from our satellite. If I wanted to witness those first hand I would go to a museum and ask to see them. I don't have to as the available supporting information is satisfactory.

And how would you prove those rocks are from the moon?

Either Hertha is whooshing or has been whooshed.

I don't think I have laughed at a thread so much in ages. It's a shame that the original sentiment has been derailed in a way though.

No, it's called tautology.

I don't believe in that either. Prove it.

I started writing a reply about spectrographic analysis from the Earth of the moon's geology and corroboration with the rock samples that came back but I really can't be stuffed because this is headed to 'prove to me that the moon landings really happened'. Which is a waste of energy tbh.

Who the fuck are you to call me a tautologist?

Fuck knows. Unless I've lost the ability to read. But when I did logic "thing a" always equalled "thing a".
Nah, the original thing was bollocks. The derailing has been hugely entertaining. What with this and that Udders fan who thinks Jonnie Douglas is some kind of ninja assassin, it's been a highly amusing couple of days

I saw it in a dream, you doing stuff tautologically. Prove I didn't

I didn't see it in a dream, but that doesn't mean I didn't see it in a dream.

I can't. You may be right, I have an open mind on the subject.

When I was 16 I worked part time in an Electronics place and there was a woman there who said she spoke to spirits,she never made a big thing out of it or made any money out it or anything she just occaisionly said things to people that were a bit odd.My family went away leaving teenage me at home for a week and like most 16 year old left home alone I was making full use of my Dads Porn collection . When I went into work weird lady knew id been wanking all weekend,though I cant quite remember how she brought the subject up,I remember it freaking me right out.Maybe it was my greasy palms or haggered washed out look.I hope that is the case because the alternative is that spirits have nothing better to do than watch me crack one off  and if that is the case id have thought the Spirits that would be most interested in me would be my dead family members.. Ive not wanked since,you never know when your dead Nan might be watching.

Hahaha, brilliant!

20 pages of mostly shite.

Talk Talk could've just summed up his stance in three words and left the thread alone.
"I'm an empiricist".

Spiritism

In 1870 Crookes decided that science had a duty to study preternatural phenomena associated with Spiritism (Crookes 1870). Judging from family letters, Crookes had already developed a favorable view of Spiritism by 1869 (Doyle 1926: volume 1, 232 – 233). In this he was possibly influenced by the untimely death of his young brother Philip in 1867 at age 21 from yellow fever contracted while on an expedition to lay a telegraph cable from Cuba to Florida (Crookes 1868). Nevertheless, he was determined to conduct his inquiry impartially and described the conditions he imposed on mediums as follows: "It must be at my own house, and my own selection of friends and spectators, under my own conditions, and I may do whatever I like as regards apparatus" (Doyle 1926: volume 1, 177). Among the mediums he studied were Kate Fox, Florence Cook, and Daniel Dunglas Home (Doyle 1926: volume 1, 230-251). Among the phenomena he witnessed were movement of bodies at a distance, rappings, changes in the weights of bodies, levitation, appearance of luminous objects, appearance of phantom figures, appearance of writing without human agency, and circumstances which "point to the agency of an outside intelligence" (Crookes 1874).

To find support and assistance for his research, he joined the Society for Psychical Research.

His report on this research in 1874, concluded that these phenomena could not be explained as conjuring, and that further research would be useful. Crookes was not alone in his views. Fellow scientists who came to believe in Spiritualism included Alfred Russel Wallace, Oliver Joseph Lodge, Lord Rayleigh, and William James (Doyle 1926: volume 1, 62). Nevertheless, most scientists were convinced that Spiritism was fraudulent, and Crookes' final report so outraged the scientific establishment "that there was talk of depriving him of his Fellowship of the Royal Society." Crookes then became much more cautious and didn't discuss his views publicly until 1898, when he felt his position was secure. From that time until his death in 1919, letters and interviews show that Crookes was a believer in Spiritism (Doyle 1926: volume 1, 169 – 170, 249 – 251).

Dr ciaran o yeo brilliant!

...and.

Well I believe that Crookes accurately and honestly reported his investigations, and they at least "proved" to himself scientifically that the paranormal was a reality. Survival of death, and the truth of Spiritualism, are separate matters to be considered. Each apparent paranormal activity has to be examined on it's merits. I only go on what evidence I experience or read, it is a matter of personal judgement.

A friend of mine is a developing physical medium. She has her own website, where she shares her experiences and will answer any questions. She suggested I post the link here for anyone interested, whether you think it is all bollocks and a waste of time, or would like to explore intelligently what has happened to take her in that direction.

physicalmediumship.forumotion.com/index.htm

What evidence?

you just posted something that Crookes and some other blokes said, their opinion with no evidecne to back it up.

You are trying to use a persons opinion as evidence. Jog on!

I'm not sure what you mean. Crookes has  described in detail the conditions and protocol for the experiments, with controls. That was not opinion, it was what he saw and experienced, therefore evidence. You can research it for yourself. If you don't believe his account of his evidence that is up to you. That is an opinion. My opinion is that it was valid evidence. Yours obviously not. What do you consider valid evidence? 
For your view to be valid, I would have throw all my books away which described personal evidence of paranormal by those who actually did it, and I would have to deny and lie about my personal paranormal experiences. I am not prepared to do that, because I trust my own judgement about truth and falsehood.

I read a book once about a rabbit who dressed in a little jacket and shoes and made Farmer McGregor very angry when he ate his radishes. He got his come-uppance though as Farmer McGregor chased him off and he left his little jacket on a fence, so he had to go to bed with no supper. So don't anyone tell me animals don't wear clothes or I'd have to throw all my Beatrix Potter books out and I'm not prepared to do that

It was his opinion that what he saw was paranormal activity, with no evidence to back up his theory.

Evidence is numbers, facts, calculations, physical evidence, something that can be tested. Somebody saying something is not evidence, it is heresay.

He proved nothing. He didn't even prove anything to himself, he just convinced himself by fuelling his fantasies based on selective data. I think that you need to check up on the definition of proof because you seemed a little confused and more than a bit gullible.

What you are doing is believing in something purely because somebody has written it down in a book, sound familiar?

Not very funny pauld, but each to his own.   :)

Never mind, my opinion is that I will see two good teams this evening,  the crowd will be witnessing the evidence, and they will all have different opinions about the evidence, and wil react to the evidence with emotion, or lack of emotion.
Hope there's a good atmosphere tonight and they play like they did Saturday. Fantastic in my opinion.   ;D

I think you are incorrect about what evidence is. It is all that is testified to be true  by witnesses of that truth. A Law Court uses witness statements as evidence.
The evidence in all cases has to be examined as to it's truth.

As for proof,it is not as simple as you make out. My dictionary says, " Facts, evidence, argument, etc, establishing or helping to establish a fact".  Or a "  demonstartion or act of proving". Or wevidence, documentation, facts, data, testimony, substantiation " . I could go on.

This kind of approach was done by Crookes and I don't see why you don't accept his evidence.
There is no reason not to, except if he was a liar. If so, why don't you say so?  It is quite clear that he was sure  of his facts and their interpretation.

That's my opinion anyway, you are welcome to yours, you might be right for all I know.

I'm wasting my time aren't I?

Yeah, that's my trademark

Here's ghost

[url width=361 height=445]http://www.urb.com/uploads/blogs/7278/Ghostface-Killah.jpg[/url]

 I don't know why we are so far apart on this. I have researched all that I could from Crookes own accounts of his evidence, as written for example in "History of Spiritualism" , Volume 1, p.119 to 125. Too much to type here. If you don't accept it as evidence then we are both wasting our time.

Go back to your definition of legal evidence - one definition you omitted was a form of "evidence" that's usually specifically excluded from legal proceedings as being unreliable. Hearsay.

As has already been mentioned numerous times, it is nowt but heresay. You are expecting us to just take somebody's word for it.

Einstein, for example, has theories. Evidence backing up his theories and research: E=MC2.

Darwin's theory of evolution. Evidence backing up his theory and research. Thousands upon thousands of fossils demonstrating his ideas.

Crookes has a theory. Evidence backing up his theories and research: HELP ME OUT HERE!!!!!

Looks like your dictionary is faulty mate, I'd take it back.

hmmm... that's the Scooby Doo dictionary where 'wevidence...' is compulsory when chasing the paranormal...  Of course it always ends up being the the caretaker dressed up in a white sheet...

I can't see how I can. He conducted scientific experiments with mediums, and recorded the results. He was a great scientist and I trust his honesty in the reporting. It's in books, and in scientific journals, like The Quarterly Journal of Science, of which he was then editor, and in the SPR Proceedings V1, p.98., "Researches in the phenomena of Spiritualism".
He said it was not fraud or imposture, and found no other explanation but what is called paranormal. I choose to believe him.

 His theory was that communication with a Spirit World was possible by means of physical mediums, who had a special rare ability to produce ectoplasm, which enabled paranormal phenomena to take place, including communication with spirit forms by means of materialisations and direct voice.
I can't think of anything in the written evidence which would convince you this was the case. If you don't believe it is possible, then it's ruled out. Unless you witness it for yourself, which is very rarely available nowadays due to lack of mediums. How would it be possible to authenticate Crooke's investigations?  Or the other scientists who worked with mediums in that period?   German scientists did a lot of investigations, and Professor Charles Richet. Paranormal phenomena was reported by them. However, once again it's not worth the trouble of typing it out, you would have to read for yourself, and it still is not what you call evdence.




 

Could this be interpreted as progress? Let's go with it.

So ask yourself this: If I can produce evidence that backs up Einstein's theory of relativity and Darwin's theory of evolution, for example, then why is it that you cannot produce evidence to back up Crooke's theory of things that go bump in the night?

Why is that?

Bollocks. Everyone knows the fossils are fakes planted by a 4000-year old and surprisingly mischievous God just to fuck with our heads and root out the unbelievers. You're really not helping your own case here BR

Poor normy, stop picking on him.

Although that tilting story made me picture Casper playing pinball.

i've heard of many people(some are family members) of faith and the afterlife who had terminal illnesses and knew they were going to die.they said to their loved ones that they will come back to them when they pass on to let them know they are ok.
those loved ones are still waiting.......

i believe those who feel a loved ones presence are imagining it. the human mind working with the emotions.

What did you expect?

Because of several reasons, you might call excuses. :)

The only evidence available is through the agency of physical mediums
All our accepted knowledge does not include the paranormal.
Religious Churches and orthodox science are generally very anti for their own reasons. It is not a religion as such.
Physical mediums have more or less died out, for various reasons
The phenomena is unpredictable and not controlled by the medium and circle
Some of it can be spontaneous and therefore not occurring under test or circle conditions
The  "energies" or attitudes of sitters can affect the results.
I am unable to produce evidence because now I have no access to a physical medium to give evidence
When I did sit in seances with a physical medium for a year, I did experience some evidence to back up Crookes.
That evidence like the table tilt I described is not believed by anyone here, which is quite typical

I now know another physical medium, whose circle is said to produce phenomena, and communication by voice. I have visited and investigated, and examined the physical evidence from the seances they had. This included apports, and writing on pieces of paper brought in from outside the room by an unknown agency. This is their evidence, not mine, and it may or may not be genuine phenomena.
Next step, I intend to sit with that circle when they invite me, and see for myself. I will draw my own conclusions from the evidence. Again we are no farther forward really, I would not expect you to believe anything outside normal laws.

If for example you were then invited,  you accepted, and you experienced phenomena outside the laws of physics, what would you do? Nobody else would believe you as it is too wierd to take for most people.

Even if a team of scientists came in with all sorts of equipment, what would that prove? Would they be trusted, would they affect the conditions, etc etc. They write a report about what happens, and we're back to not believing books and accounts again.

This is wearing my brain out!  Hope it 's worth it. If you take any note of the Society for Psychical Research, they published "The Scole report" in November 1999. I bought a copy, in which they investigate the genuineness of a range of physical phenomena with a mediumistic group. There you will see full descriptions of all they did together. 447 pages. There are photos of the evidence they received as well as the accounts. It takes some effort to wade through it, but it enables you to make up your own mind on the contents. However, it is only a book. like all the others. is this evidence you would accept?

It's because there isn't any, innit?

A simple yes or no will suffice

Normy, in the nicest possible way... You're a deluded cunt. Grow up.

Normy is even older than me....I think he may come back to haunt you...

I don't care how fucking old he is. He's a gullible twat.

Thank you for the compliment! I am honoured to be deluded about this subject, along with Sir Willian Crookes, Sir Oliver Lodge, Lord Dowding, Arthur Conan Doyle, Professors like Archie Roy and David Fontana, and many others.   ;D

Conan Doyle was a junkie so that's another shot in the foot from yourself there normy.

You sound rather desperate there BR!   :beers:

the first 8 minutes at the CG tonight

And i'm honoured to be right about this subject just like the 6 billion or so other people you haven't listed.

You want to show a bit of respect! If I remember rightly Normy's fucked a ghost, which by my reckoning means he's had sex with a dead person

That pisses all over your half-arsed granny record!

at last a linda beeton reference. thank you spacey.

pmsl

You did use the word prove I'm afraid, look back at your own post FFS, and you clearly have not the first idea of what the word means.

Mathamaticians prove things. No-one else ever proves anything. Ask any scientist, they'll never claim that level of certainty, (which is why the CERN physicists got themselves in such a knot with the press by refusing to emphatically rule out the posibility that the LHC would "create a black hole that swallowed the earth").

Scientists gather evidence that supports a hypothesis. That's pretty much all they ever claim.

This thread is fucking hysterical. I've seen / heard / smelt / otherwise experienced something I don't understand - doubters have to PROVE TO ME THAT IT ISN'T GHOSTS / GOD / SOME OTHER BOLLOCKS!

Fuck me. Can I suggest you all go and find a copy of Derren Brown's Trick of the Mind book and get a fucking grip.

I've had a copy on my bookshelf for quite sometime. I keep meaning to read it, but then forget because I get wrapped up in some new book I bought. I will take it down and put it next to my bed to read after I finish The Greatest Show on Earth.

Uh? I can prove lots of things. Like rocks fall downwards. I will drop one on your foot and see if you experience it. Like I get drunk on fifteen pints of Guinness - the evidence is clear. Like jumping off the Canary Wharf Tower will kill you (your turn this one).

What do you mean no one else ever proves anything?

Because that's not how science works. And it's also why science works. And it's why you've contradicted yourself so many times in this thread that you've come across as a bit of fool.

Science provides the best models, they get tested and used for predictions until they don't work any more. That's the whole point of the scientific method, everything get's tested and used until a case is found where something doesn't work anymore and then a whole new branch of why and new theories comes about.

It's why the scientific methods are better than blind faith in stuff, because it's built around testing things until they don't work anymore and then you come up with something better, not just sitting around ignoring everything which doesn't agree with your own view of the world.

fuck me is this still going on ?

Only to show Alan that if he tries a bit harder he might just about manage below average intelligence.

never pretended to be, not like some people

ooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhh nice edit Ben

nah that's true.

Ben. I am very well aware what the scientific method is honey  :)

Gravity is a well proven theory. Funnily enough it works in reality. Like the theory of light or loads of chemistry stuff. Proof means that what we experience matches the theory.

So just fuck off, patronising cunt.

Alan had empty quoted me, which I took as him agreeing with me, so I quoted that (forgetting that quotes in quotes don't show up), so nothing showed up when I quoted him. Then he deleted his post completely, so I deleted mine because I didn't want it to look like it was aimed at you.

and yeah but yeah.

People shouldn't be able to delete their own posts.

POT.KETTLE.BLACK

How's the ghosts tonight then Andy? Had any ectoplasm splashed over your face?

dont know, just came out of hospital TT

speak for yourself about the ectoplasm, not really into pervy stuff myself

Yeah well I have a bit of a shit cold and spent a few hours in bed this afternoon. Such is life.

Perhaps the ghost will heal you tonight.

Tara.

Gravity is a brilliant example, rocks will definitely continue to fall to earth as predicted by our current understanding and models of it's affects. But then gravity is still a bit of a mystery, there's a lot left to explain why and how it works.

Which is why you come across as a bit of stupid knob dismissing other peoples experiences on the basis that they don't fit into your understanding of how the world works on the basis of scientific understanding, because it's the exact opposite of what science is about.

There are much better ways of disputing all the spiritual stuff without being so fundamental wrong.

Sorry I didn't realise I was patronising you, I thought you were just a bit thick.

Patrick Swayze proved a;l this was true clever cunt he was

Jesus you are a cunt

You are a good lad andy but leave jesus out of it

Is TT this thick in real life?

He's very denimy

You motherfuckers can't stop me
Even if I die, I'm gon' be a fuckin problem
Do you believe in ghosts, motherfucker?
Real live black... ghosts
Feel me?

I am surprised at you Alan, you are well aware of what I have been through oncology wise.

Your comments have been low in this thread.

I just think you have hit rock bottom in all honesty

Jane Jane went to Spain
In a chocolate aeroplane
She saw a ghost
Eating toast
Half way up a lamp post

Best one yet Si

well done, have a gold star ! x

Barry's got a bookcase AND a Kindle. That's some proper paranormal phenomena shit right there.

You know when you've got modding powers, but you want to change/derail/moveon/nudge-in-a-different-direction a thread without using them?

You've shown some good work there. I used to always resort to man. man and atees

Talk Talk is a keyboard warrior always willing to have a pop at someone for the sake of it.

I actually want Freds ghost to rape him and even better get it on video

You see that's why I like you Benji, you hang about on here acting the goat and getting pissed on cheap cider or decent red wine, (depending on your cash flow), but you're one of the most rational, and informed of the forum members.

He's only just bought the Kindle to be fair, so it's hardly that paranormal. I know plenty of people that have Ipod's and CD players; some of them even have good old fashioned record players as well.

A proof doesn't have to have anything to do with reality. Somethings are 'impossible' but can be proved to occur. Easiest example, mathematicians can prove theories in spaces of greater than 3-dimensions, but we all know anything other than 3-dimensions is utter shit.

Oh, and the rock analogy, you may drop a rock off of a bridge and it may fall; but can you prove that for every rock dropped off of the bridge, that that too will fall? Induction, prove it for one thing; then prove it for everything else.
 
(of course each will fall, but what's gravity other than a force)

And ghosts don't exist, there is no heaven or hell, UFO and E.Ts could exists

[url width=800 height=600]http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/jehst/d86933294dfe0f4b7e41889d70724f25.jpg[/url]

When did you grow a beard?

pah


beat me to it

wait

axs is the ginger one here

Yeah but you look more like a conspiracy theorist x

I thought it was chubbs

You mean polish thins?

regular friday occurance for talk talk to come on and argue aint it?
reckon he hits the booze then lets rip with his weekly outbursts.
i look forward to reading next fridays episode.

With some toast and a cat, we can beat gravity.

[url width=242 height=420]http://www.funnymos.com/funny-pictures/cat3.jpg[/url]

Back on topic, went to see Derek Acorah at the Wyvern last week.

Some of the shit I saw with my own two eyes has left me in no doubt whatsoever: The bloke is a scouser.

 :D :D :D

  For Fred and other believers.....must do event.

  http://hswin.moonfruit.com/