Thetownend.com

Far Right, or Far Left.  They're all fucking nutters.

Join me in the Apathetic Party. We haven't got any MP's, or Councillors, because we can't be arsed to do anything.

So what will you ever achieve, without councillors no say?

We don't care.

Mr
Paul
Shaddick
........
Report from Mike Howson 2/8/07: member describes himself as a witch: potential embarrassment if active

Sexy BNP lady, me and U is gonna have many white kids. I-ight?

good luck racist

Time to stop that BNP subscription. You got busted bitch

Mr Ian Underwood

Will not be renewing 07 (objects to being told he shouldn't wear a bomber jacket)

It seems pretty genuine.

I guess there is no way of knowing it is genuine.....

Until Whits asks his cow-orker

Mr Avery ... ESOL teacher

Hey nemo, might be worth removing the address/telephone/email from that post. Don't want to risk Barry getting a visit from CID for posting personal details, even if it is unlikely.

I don't think I should post the link, as I am not sure of the legalities of doing so under the data protections act.

I would imagine the bnpmemberslist is easy to find on blogspot.com mind ;)

I wonder if Ironside is on there?

Done, but I imagine there's about a million forums on t'internet busy copy+pasting the exact bits.

PaulD - the list is from roughly a year ago.

If I was on the list id be worried though, the direct action ant facists and anarchists are going to have a field day.

Barry has put the link up himself so I guess he'd only have himself to blame.

Theres one lives down my street!

One of my friends is quite heavily involved with the BNP.

I tell him hes been brain washed and that its all bollocks but he believes the stuff.Does it make him evil? Not as far as im concerened,he a good lad with questionable political views hes doing nothing illegal.

No, not evil.

Just a nasty, biggoted facist who deserves all the abuse he gets.

it may or may not be on a wikipedia website for leaks, perhaps called wikileaks

But in these difficult economic times, it's a welcome boost for glaziers

Just had a quick look around, but couldn't find anything immediately.

This is so funny it isn't true.  And given the housing downturn, most of them won't be able to move either.  Expect BT will be getting quite a few requests for number changes this morning.

I wonder if we can get hold of the lists of members of for the Labour, Conservative and Liberal Democrat membership?

No I think they're a bit more competent than the weekend waffens

I wonder if we can get hold of the lists of members of for the Labour, Conservative and Liberal Democrat membership?

I think the point is that most members of those parties aren't ashamed of their political affiliations.

I'd be fucking ashamed if I was member of the fucking Labour party!

When I was politically active on the left I stood on street corners selling papers a couple of times a week, was open about my links in TU meetings, Labour party meetings (before the expulsions), public meetings, and ran public campaigns out of my front room.

And I was on the left of the mainstream. I didn't have any interest in hiding. The only people I thought would give me shit for where I stood politically were the likes of your lot, and I was prepared to take that risk.

I wasn't scared my neighbours would spit on me in the street, or that my colleagues wouldn't be prepared to work with me or wouldn't want me in their union branch. That's because whilst the majority of people didn't agree with me, they didn't find my beliefs utterly repugnant in the way so many find yours.

Doesn't that make you think? At all?

Oh, go on.

Call me thick - How do you become a member of any party? is it just by voting for them or do you have to pay?

Mr Brass - Will not be renewing 07 (emigrating to Australia)
Mr Perkins - Will not be renewing 07 (emigrating to Portugal)

So where does that leave the teachers / coppers?

Will they be sacked for being a member of a legal political party?

If they do is that really a good thing for democracy or society in general, regardless of how much you despise their views?

If you were a member of an ethnic minority do you think you'd be confident of being dealt with impartially by a teacher or a copper, or a prison officer that was a member of the BNP?

I wouldn't.

So where does that leave the teachers / coppers?

Will they be sacked for being a member of a legal political party?

If they do is that really a good thing for democracy or society in general, regardless of how much you despise their views?

If you were a member of an ethnic minority do you think you'd be confident of being dealt with impartially by a teacher or a copper, or a prison officer that was a member of the BNP?

I wouldn't.

I'd never argue that anybody "perscetutes" because it's not really a word.

And drop the pathetic persecution complex. What? like you object to black people being persecuted? get a fucking grip you monkey No-ones placed any bloody limits on your rights to have your political affiliations, it's just that someone, most likely a member of your own party has made public what those affiliations are.

I simply made the point that most members of political parties don't feel the need to hide their membership, and that it's odd that so many of your lot are so upset about people knowing what their politics are. Why is that do you think?

They're upset at having their personal information disclosed in the same way that if the back lost your details, or even the government, you'd be a bit pissed off.  Add into the mix the lefty thugs who wouldn't think twice about bashing an old granny for being a member of a party of the right and you can see why people might be a bit concerned.


Your lot keep making out you're speaking for the mythical "silent minority". If that's really true, if, as you claim, most people actually agree with you, what is it you're so fucking ashamed of?  See above

What they're scared of, what you're all scared of, isn't that some left activist group is going to firebomb you, that's more your lots tactics (I can post the link to the list of such convictions again if you like) Go for it, I'll post a list of convictions for members of the main three parties and we'll compare them shall we? , but that the general public, your own colleagues and neighbours will want nothing to do with you. And a lot will. Because most people find your political ideas fucking disgusting.  The growth in membership of the party and votes at the ballot box tells me your talking more empty rhetoric.

And if it means local groups demonstrating outside shops and pubs run by your members, letting customers know the politics of the people they're about to give their money to, and that fucks up their businesses then tough shit.

You're  really nice bloke aren't you lumpy.  Supporting violence and intimidation of people on the basis of their politics.  Yoou're not Robert Mugabe are you?





 

You're right, but I also fail to see how the Police could eject someone based on membership of a legal political party, when they themselves have discriminatory institutions such as the National Black Police Association.

Peter Fahy, chief constable of Greater Manchester Police and spokesman for the Association of Chief Police Officers, said: "Membership or promotion of the BNP by any member of the police service, whether police officer or police staff, is prohibited.

"This is because such membership would be incompatible with our duty to promote equality under the Race Relations Amendment Act and would damage the confidence of minority communities."

Are you a member of the BNP party? Were your details published online? Contact us using the form below. Your contact details will not be published.

whilst I am sure some of you find these very funny for some poeple this could mean them losing their jobs which is not at all funny

whilst I am sure some of you find these very funny for some poeple this could mean them losing their jobs which is not at all funny. I know a few people who ar shitting it.

Bloody hilarious - and no more than they deserve frankly !

If they want to follow a party whose "leader" has openly denied the holocaust ever happened

Yes, yes it is. It's very very funny

http://liarsbuggersandthieves.blogspot.com/

Very nice. Didn't spot any who'd tried to murder school kids though. Or any drug dealers. Or hooligans. Or bombers.

Not to mention his criminal conviction for publishing anti-Semitic material so extreme he was convicted of inciting racial hatred and got a 9-month sentence in 1998. Or Lambertus Nieuwhof, one of their leading activists, a convicted South African "race war" terrorist who runs their website (he planted a bomb in a mixed-race school in the 90s) etc etc etc Real class act this lot

Plenty of nonce's on there though, isn't there?

Serious question Ironside - Do you think the people that run the BNP are Racists?

Plenty of nonce's on there though, isn't there?

I won't be surprised if their vote and / or membership increases now.

although the bnp membership contains a high proportion of biggots and racists,that doesn't apply to everyone.i suspect pensioners and other people who may agree with some views of the bnp will now become targets for far left nutters.

you don't pay for a membership to an organisation that you "may agree with"

yeah fair enough.sheepshagger and yourself made valid points in regard to my post.
i dont know how the membership of the bnp works.could those that donated a bit of cash be on the list?

Yes, it's a great marketing slogan isn't it "Join the BNP and make yourself a target for every identity fraudster, hard-left nutter etc etc going". Don't know why the Lib Dems haven't thought of it.

yeah fair enough.sheepshagger and yourself made valid points in regard to my post.
i dont know how the membership of the bnp works.could those that donated a bit of cash be on the list?

although the bnp membership contains a high proportion of biggots and racists,that doesn't apply to everyone.i suspect pensioners and other people who may agree with some views of the bnp will now become targets for far left nutters.

Speaking as someone who used to be one of those "far left nutters" I can assure you that the chances of anyone targeting fucking pensioners is fucking none.

As I posted before the most likely outcomes, other than those people in the forces, police prison service, teachers etc getting a call from their HR departments, is a few fascist owned businesses seeing a bit of a drop off in custom as word gets around, no doubt helped by local anti-racism campaigns.

Some anarchist groups like Antifa might want to use the list for more direct confrontation but there's a handful of them to be honest and they'll be concentrating on prominent members that they can now track to a home address.

Other than that there might be a few 'phone calls from the likes of Mex asking about their chees preferences.

Sheepshagger/Lumpy/Paul D

Do you three all own Che Geuvara T shirts?

I wasn't talking to you

I wasn't talking to you

That would make me correct then?

No, it makes you stupid....

by far left nutters i meant extreemists who may take action against individuals.not necessarily people who just have left of centre political views.

i'm also sure some people on that list will get some stick because of their memberships of the bnp.i dont think people will dig out members dates of birth and discard the old uns before doing whatever they do.

No, it makes you stupid....

sorry rich...it must hurt to be told that by a self-confessed racist.

DRS has learnt to count.

11 pages

sorry rich...it must hurt to be told that by a self-confessed racist.

sorry rich...it must hurt to be told that by a self-confessed racist.

You MUST have Che T shirt Sonic, I'm right aren't I?

nope, only sixth formers have che t-shirts don't they?

i do own a woody guthrie "this machine kills fascists" t-shirt..oh and a red star t-shirt.

you and your boyfriends just assume.

I never "confessed" to anything sonic, you and your boyfriends just assume.

I never "confessed" to anything sonic, you and your boyfriends just assume.

Genuis, Gentleman Explorer, French Cabaret Chantoose and Small Bets Placed

:doh: why am I not suprised....

Did you know that you've spelt genius wrong in your signature Ironside?

Dear Mr/Mrs Bigot:

We would like to thank you for your contribution you fucking cunt, and we thought that you would like to know that we have found a suitable replacement in Mr. Mbungu Mbuggawugga, whom we are sure will excel in his position because he his fucking well superior to cunts like you.

Regards.

Now fuck off you cunt.

Question for Ironside:

Do racists like you have the slightest inkling on just how fucked up your ideals are, or are you that fucking ignorant that you believe that you are superior?

Fucking top result on this list being released, and I hope that all of those who lose their jobs over this are replaced by a black person, and then informed of it

thanks for clearing that up for me spacey.
what about the fruit pickers? and should brits be allowed to live abroad?
so many questions......

That's racist, or does racism work only one way?

That's racist, or does racism work only one way?

So, what then? Are you a racist? My money's on closet lefty.

Whoosh!

Exactly

No.

Just had this emailed to me but i havent clicked on it!!

These cunts are gonna be bombarded with telemarketing calls.

Is this the taxi driver from football factory?

Mr
John
Watts
....
Activist
Taxi driver. City & Guilds Motor Mechanics (basic). B-Tec Transporting Passengers by Taxi (level 2). Hobbies: motocycling, Staffordshire bull terriers

This just gets funnier and funnier - the BNP are now saying they're going to use the Human Rights Act to try and get the list suppressed. That'd be the same Human Rights Act they're committed to repealing because, in the words of our own dear Ironside, "it's only ever used to protect foreign criminals". Surely not all the BNP members can be foreign criminals? What happened to all the British-born bombers, paedos, drug dealers and hooligans they used to have?

All in all, it's not been a great day for Nazi morale has it?

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1945960.ece

Ironside you still haven't answered my question:
Are you in favour of the Human Rights Act now then? Or are you just as much of a snivelling hypocrite as your convicted criminal racist Oberfuhrer?

What makes me laugh more than anything is the fact that some serious and interesting questions have been asked of our resident racist Ironside....

He keeps saying he is open to debate as well....

Still I am yet to see ANY posts which answer questions or put up a reasonable debate - all you get is "your a cunt" - or words to that effect.....

Come on Ironside - at least you can TRY to sound a bit more intelligent ?

You really are think cunt aren't you.

Briefly though, you tell me why you think (and Paul and all the other commie cunts knocking around here) what YOU think makes the BNP racist.

Briefly though, you tell me why you think (and Paul and all the other commie cunts knocking around here) what YOU think makes the BNP racist.

   SECTION 2: MEMBERSHIP

    1) The British National Party represents the collective National, Environmental, Political, Racial, Folkish, Social, Cultural, Religious and Economic interests of the indigenous Anglo-Saxon, Celtic and Norse folk communities of Britain and those we regard as closely related and ethnically assimilated or assimilable aboriginal members of the European race also resident in Britain. Membership of the BNP is strictly defined within the terms of, and our members also self define themselves within, the legal ambit of a defined ‘racial group’ this being ‘Indigenous Caucasian’ and defined ‘ethnic groups’ emanating from that Race as specified in law in the House of Lords case of Mandla V Dowell Lee (1983) 1 ALL ER 1062, HL.

    2) The indigenous British ethnic groups deriving from the class of ‘Indigenous Caucasian’ consist of members of: i) The Anglo-Saxon Folk Community; ii) The Celtic Scottish Folk Community; iii) The Scots-Northern Irish Folk Community; iv) The Celtic Welsh Folk Community; v) The Celtic Irish Folk Community; vi) The Celtic Cornish Folk Community; vii) The Anglo-Saxon-Celtic Folk Community; viii) The Celtic-Norse Folk Community; ix) The Anglo-Saxon-Norse Folk Community; x) The Anglo-Saxon-Indigenous European Folk Community; xi) Members of these ethnic groups who reside either within or outside Europe but ethnically derive from them.

    3) Membership of the party shall be open only to those who are 16 years of age or over and whose ethnic origin is listed within Sub-section 2

Why don't YOU tell us why YOU think they AREN'T.

You really are think cunt aren't you.

I said in my first post yesterday that I didn't have time for a debate, I have a job to do. I'm busy today and not likely to be at home until late.

Briefly though, you tell me why you think (and Paul and all the other commie cunts knocking around here) what YOU think makes the BNP racist.

time to stop calling me a "cunt" and have an adult debate about it ?

Because he's busy at work...

You mean apart from the fact that it's led by and riddled with hardcore racists? Well, that's the whole point of the BNP - it was founded by and for "send em back, whites only" boneheads. Oh, and the fact that it's explicitly in your constitution:


In simpler language this is a party which is wholly about the Aryan/Norse heritage bullshit the Nazis were so keen on and membership is only open to white Anglo-Saxons(There are Jewish and Jamaican members Paul so that not true is it?. It is, according to its own constitution, wholly defined by its racism

Why do people like you have a problem with an organistaion that, if what you say is true, represents a specific ethnic group, in the case white people, yet we never hear you bleating on about the THOUSANDS of organisations that represent other ethnic groups, like black people? You never have a bad word to say about them but you jump on your bandwagon when the BNP gets a mention. Please explain?

Paul, you really haven't got a clue what they're about and just come out with the same tired old lines that may well have been relevant to the National Front in the 1970's but time has moved moved on. Suggest you update your opinions by speaking to some members and finding out what they're all about.

Nicely done Ironside - reverting to type again then....

Now why would I think the BNP are a racist organisation ?

Well Paul has mentioned a few reasons above - directly from your membership rules.  This clearly states that membership is not possible for anyone not "indigenous caucasian" - leaves a few races out wouldn't you think ?

Other ideas ?

Nick Griffin - leader - April 1998 received 2 year suspended sentence for inciting racial hatred.

Guilty of a thought crime - welcome to communist Britain

John Tyndall -founder of the BNP - In 1986, he was convicted for incitement to racial hatred and sentenced to 12 months imprisonment. This is one of half a dozen convictions.....

True. He set up BNP as splinter of NF. Griffin wrestled control from him and has made the party much better. See how Tyndall had a few hundered members but Griffing has thousands? Tyndall is DEAD now.

Kevin Scott -North East Regional Organiser Convicted in 1993 for hurling a glass at a black customer in a pub.

No longer in the partyas far as I know


Alan Gould - Waltham Forest Organiser - Was convicted in 2000 for racially abusing people in a local pub

No longer in the party as far as I know

Darren Hoy. April 2002 was sent to prison for 3 months for racially abusing people as they left an anti-fascist rally in Oldham.

No longer in the party as far as I know


That is just a few of the people....

On the parties manifest in 2001 they openly said that "native britons" would get priority in the job market over "non whites"

Sounds like Brown's policy of British jobs for British workers doesn't it?  Or would it be the reverse of the latest law where its positively encouraged for employers to choose a ethnic candidate over a white candidate because they are black?

Mixed race relationships would be outlawed

Without looking, don't recall that one so might come back to it.

Any "non white" who committed a crime would be thrown out of the country - no matter if they were born here !

Not quite true as far as I can recall. I think you'll find that they said thet all foreign criminals will be deported. THAT is definately a policy I support.


Compulsary repatriation has now been dropped in favour of "voluntary" repatriation.  However if they come to power they "reserve the right" to consider forcible repatriation if not enough "non whites" take up their offer.....

They plan to use the existing government policy of assisted repatriation. A policy introduced by athe Tory's and expanded by ZaNULabour. Nothing new. The last part isn't right though.

These are a few reasons that I think the BNP are racist.

So come on Ironside - I have answered YOUR questions.....time to stop calling me a "cunt" and have an adult debate about it ?

YOU ARE STILL A CUNT!

And I'm back to work.

Paul, you really haven't got a clue what they're about and just come out with the same tired old lines that may well have been relevant to the National Front in the 1970's but time has moved moved on. Suggest you update your opinions by speaking to some members and finding out what they're all about.

Come one Paul, enough's enough, there's nothing wrong with cheap suits!!!!

* Its constitution is explicitly racist (notice you didn't address that, at all)

Yeah bash the BNP all you like but theres nothing wrong with a good old fashioned chaep british suit***






*** suit may have been made in Singapore

Okay why are the bnp pulled up about only having white mebers etc but the black police federation ae allowed to do the same thing?

In south africa the black majoirty raise up against the white minotry. This is callled revelatioun yet if the like in england the white majorty try to rasie up it's called rascim?

ps I know I can't spell and if I am honest I am fishing abit but these two questions have always bugged me?

Because in england the white majority isn't horrifically victimised??

Okay why are the bnp pulled up about only having white mebers etc but the black police federation ae allowed to do the same thing?
 

i think native brits who scrounge,breed like rabbits and offer nothing to the uk are a much bigger problem than the vast majority of hardworking immigrants.

I know I can't spell and if I am honest I am fishing abit but these two questions have always bugged me?

Well GFM - I guess the black police federation would say they are trying to represent their workers - however I do not think they would do this while "white bashing" at the same time.  The difference is that the BNP are openly racist and have members at the head of their organisation who have many convictions, and racist convictions at that...

South Africa is an interesting one....As far as I am aware Africa is a majority black area.  The whites came into their country and repressed the majority, segregated them and cast them aside mercilously (sounds a lot like what the BNP want to do)....

When democracy was finally re-instated the black people have come into power, but still live in a country where the majority are black.  However different to what the BNP want, they have not tried to "repatriate" the whites and cast them aside - they are all slowly learning to live together.  I have been over there 5-6 times on business in the last 15 years, and it has changed an awful lot as a place.  The majority of whites are embarassed and ashamed of what they did to the black people for a long time (rightly so) and are now trying to resolve their differences and live together...

However the black people have a LOT of forgiving to do.......

The British Straight White Man persecution complex is pretty pathetic. As a demographic our interests are served better than any other group in the country, whatever the Daily Mail tells you.

I disagree. Decades ago then this was obviously very much the case. In fact the country was set up to benefit "us"

However these days all minority groups be it though race, sexuality, whatever, have a form of representation, a campaign group. someone to stand up for them.  The white british straight man does not and as such his opinons can be ignored at times, despite thier views carring more in terms of numbers. 

Of course if your'e left leaning then I'll just get dismissed as a daily mail reading knee jerk specialist.

But these minority groups aren't persecuting the white man, in the same way they've been persecuted. Your average WBSM(that stands for something else as well doesn't it?) may be losing the social advantage that he's had previously, but that's not persecution. Levelling the playing field is a good thing.

Did these guys set up the Average White Band in the 70's????

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tZzQ3QPqpAM

I preferred Supertramp!

I cant remember what my point was

I blame Labour

And even if GFM's counter example were anything other than rhetoric, it still doesn't alter the fact that the BNP ARE racists. Saying "ooh, but look there's other things that might be a bit racist" doesn't mean the BNP are any less racist. Or less criminal. Or less loony come to that. It's a fairly crap distraction tactic but 4/10 for effort

No-one on here (aside from Ironside) are saying that the BNP are not racists, the point is, why is not the same criticism aimed at other 'discriminatory organisations such as the National Black Police Association as at the BNP?

It reminds me of the BrassEye sketch of 'Good Aids and Bad Aids', there's 'good racism' (of whites) and 'bad racism' (of blacks.)

No-one on here (aside from Ironside) are saying that the BNP are not racists, the point is, why is not the same criticism aimed at other 'discriminatory organisations such as the National Black Police Association as at the BNP?

The drawing parallels between the BNP and minority interest group makes a nice bit of rhetoric, but it's bollocks isn't it. The "it's not fair why are they so acceptable" group you're making comparisons with don't want to persecute (violently) people of other races, or even people who just disagree with them.

National Black Police Association (NBPA) chief Ali Dizaei has called for positive discrimination to be introduced into the police force.

Pauld:

http://www.personneltoday.com/articles/2008/10/28/48131/national-black-police-association-chief-calls-for-positive-discrimination.html

Discrimination is still discrimination. (as I said good racism and bad racism)

Pauld:

http://www.personneltoday.com/articles/2008/10/28/48131/national-black-police-association-chief-calls-for-positive-discrimination.html

Discrimination is still discrimination. (as I said good racism and bad racism)

SECTION 2: MEMBERSHIP

       2) The indigenous British ethnic groups deriving from the class of ‘Indigenous Caucasian’ consist of members of: i) The Anglo-Saxon Folk Community; ii) The Celtic Scottish Folk Community; iii) The Scots-Northern Irish Folk Community; iv) The Celtic Welsh Folk Community; v) The Celtic Irish Folk Community; vi) The Celtic Cornish Folk Community; vii) The Anglo-Saxon-Celtic Folk Community; viii) The Celtic-Norse Folk Community; ix) The Anglo-Saxon-Norse Folk Community; x) The Anglo-Saxon-Indigenous European Folk Community; xi) Members of these ethnic groups who reside either within or outside Europe but ethnically derive from them.

I fucking aint.

I was born in pmh. Is that a nynphomaniac briton?

Just been for my nightly run around the beach and our local bnp resident downstairs windows have been put through and are now boarded up!

As Ironside STILL hasn't answered my question about the rank hypocrisy of Nick Griffin invoking the Human Rights Act he wants to repeal because "it's only used to protect foreign criminals" over this, thought this subtle reminder from the Times might jog his memory. So, for the fourth time, do you still think the Human Rights Act should be repealed then? Or is this not an excellent example of why it is important to have Human Rights enshrined in British law, applicable equally to everyone, no matter how scummy?

[url width=385 height=295]http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00436/brookes1_436318a.jpg[/url]

Interestingly (and I know I'm going off topic a little here) there was more support for appeasing the Hitler and the Nazi Party in the mid/late 1930s than many people appreciate today.  Appeasement is usually associated simply with Chamberlain, but he was not a lone voice.  Lord Halifax was another supporter, as was Edward VIII...and many ordinary people alive at the time.

A common attitude back then was 'Let Mr Hitler have his European territories and we'll have our Empire.'  The wholesale vilification of the Nazis only developed during and, in particular, after World War Two, when the full horror of the atrocities they perpetrated became apparent.

Churchill's defiance in May 1940, when he decided to take Germany on, was not a simple reflection of the national mood.  He could easily have made peace at that time.  His foresight was spectacularly impressive.

The 'Appeasement' section of this article on Lord Rothermere is good summary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Harmsworth,_1st_Viscount_Rothermere

The editorial slant of the 'Rothermere press' has changed surprisingly little over the years.

All these groups are immigrants to the Britain Isles (the land mass) as the first lot here were the Neolithic Britons and they were driven out by the Celts (from northern Europe, I believe).  Therefore none of these groups can be described as indigenous British.  Every one of us here in the British Isles is an immigrant.

Course they do - Ironside is one of them :):):)

Not strictly true....the recentish case of Cheddar Man shed some interesting light.

 A skeleton dated to about 9000 years ago found in a Cheddar cave, puts the person into Mesolitic hunter gathering time. The date is obtained by analysis of dental DNA....the researchers then did DNA analysis in Cheddar's present population and found 2 inhabitants with an exact match.

 In the late Palaeolithic/ early Mesolithic, the land bridge between England and the continent would have still been intact....this is today the North Sea, large numbers of Mesolithic hand axes etc come up in fishing nets as the North Sea is remarkably shallow. It looks like when the last Ice Age was in place to the north of roughly the midlands, there was a fair population of hunter gatherers, these would be considered the indiginous population, and teh Cheddar research suggests their descendants still remain.

Quite simply being Anglo Saxon is a cultural term as well as an ethnic term. It's about the development of the Nation of England, which came about after the departure of teh Romans in the 5th Century. 

 No doubt the bulk of Saxon immigrants were Germanic, in origin, but they weren't German , they became English.

 A similar thing happened in Normandy....where Norse Vikings became French.

Absolutely, but as people often go on about ethnic origin, I enjoy taking it to its logical conclusion.

It's the reason why an averagely sized african village has a greater genetic diversity than the rest of the non-African world, Africans being descended from the population of an entire continent, the rest of us all tracing our roots back to a few dozen people that set off along the African coast to look to settle elsewhere.

Can someone PM me the link please.

 Don't really understand this bit could you elucidate please Lumps?

Surely that's more down to natural resources?

Seriously what the fuck are you lot on about

Can someone who's read all the stuff on Neanderthals etc PM me the missing link please?

So Lumps what you are saying is that there was a sizeable and varied hominid population in Africa, living alongside the great apes.
 
  A section buggered off, and evolved into caucasians, abos, orientals, Inders and pygmy Papaun New Guineans, whilst the lot that stayed put evolved into Bushmen...Rwandan pygmies, negroes and Ethiopeans/Eritreans etc.

That's the way I understood it - but there is another group (not on that list) who went off and evolved in to card carrying BNP members

According to this book:

Spencer Wells, The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey, Random House, ISBN 0-8129-7146-9

patterns of markers in the mitocondrial DNA in various ethnic populations across the world indicate an origin for us all in a small group of Sand people, native to the area around the Kalahari, who set out around 50,000 years ago and effectively populated the rest of the world with modern man.

a list of emails of "communists" has been leaked on a far right blog, which has one of my address on.

i think the tit for tat war has begun

So Lumps what you are saying is that there was a sizeable and varied hominid population in Africa, living alongside the great apes.
 
  A section buggered off, and evolved into caucasians, abos, orientals, Inders and pygmy Papaun New Guineans, whilst the lot that stayed put evolved into Bushmen...Rwandan pygmies, negroes and Ethiopeans/Eritreans etc.

I heard some bloke got rung up and harassed about his choice of cheese. Disgraceful behaviour

Set fire to commies and hang the fascists....

I want a link up on the dirty commy list.

http://www.redwatch.org/indexx.html

Your request was denied because of its content categorization: "Hate Speech". If you need to access the requested web page and your request is business relevant please contact the Global IT Service Desk (for Austria, Portugal and non European countries: local Helpdesk).

Oh dear Nick, it's hapenned again with the updated list. With Telephone Numbers.

email: [email protected]

Interesting that the BBC has had to tighten its security for Griffin, it makes you wonder if the BNP are the only fascists at television centre tonight.

I'd have thought the Beeb will have it on iPlayer and everywhere else they can get it - given they're pre-seeding the audience with Nazis and anti-racists, pretty obvious for all their oh-so-liberal handwringing about freedom of speech etc, they're going for a ratings grab, pure and simple.

I say let them be torn apart by intelligent debate.

It's also the main story on their website, the ratings will be huge. I'll watch it for sure, and I wouldn't usually watch question time. However, it is pre-recorded so anything too controversial likely won't go out.

That said, Mark Thompson is exactly right in the Guardian today- if the Government don't want the BNP on, change the law, not moan at the BBC. They are the Government, the BBC are abiding by the rules set down for them, fair or not. Peter Hain (Who I have a lot of respect for having read a fair bit about apartheid) should complain to his boss instead of the papers.

the premise is that the BNP will be exposed by being asked tough questions, something the BBC has abjectly failed to do ever since the Euros (the most glaring example being the Radio 1 Newsbeat debacle which was an extended advert for two avowed Nazis). And even if that is the best way to expose the BNP, QT is not the right forum for that. It's far more politics as entertainment, than any real tough questioning.

To be fair, Dimbleby is a touch more competent than the Newsbeat 'journalists'

Don't expect any fireworks tonight, for I feel that Nick Griffin, in the eyes of the general public, will emerge from this with more credit than anything else.

I suspect that, this evening, each of us will see what we want to see.

Exactly whose 'premise' is it that the 'BNP will be exposed by being asked tough questions' ? That of an individual with deeply entrenched political views and red-tinted spectacles or that of the general public ?

Erm, that's the line the BBC and various media commentators have been using to defend their decision to ask him on Question Time. Assuming you mean me by the red-tinted spectacles thing (and my eyes are fine thanks) I've been arguing that it's a flawed premise and a crap argument. Do keep up.

Erm. Why do I suspect that you are Ironside?

those morons blocking the road and lighting flares etc are just as stupid as the bnp.

Erm. Why do I suspect that you are Ironside?

Just as Griffin has the right to appear on Question Time, so his opponents have the right to demonstrate their disapproval of him. Freedom of speech, innit?

I think it's simpler than that.  They're protesting because Griffin's a cunt.

"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." Sir Winston Chruchill Feb 9, 1941

Exactly. And they have every right to do so. You can argue they're wrong, they're protesting against the wrong people etc, but it's the same argument as Griffin appearing in the first place - you might think they're wrong, but they have the right to be so. FWIW, I think they're bang on and more power to them.

       
Mob rule cannot be tolerated, even by the rag-tag leftist Kristallnacht wannabees we have seen today.

A bit of pushing and shoving outside BBC TV is hardly on the same level as a nationwide state-sponsored anti-Jewish riot. I think you need to get a sense of perspective. Unless of course this is one of those arguments you picked up from casual contact with random members of the public and not your own opinion.

There are many reasons why BNP anger me so much, but these two are probably the most recent things they've said which have really made my blood boil.

• They'd interviewed him on Radio One Newsroundbeat not long ago and he said something like 'British born ethnic minorities are welcome to stay but those born overseas are not', then stated that this is why BNP are not racist.
• The European Election Campaign where they said all the dead soldiers who fought the wars would be turning in their graves because the country was giving up the freedom they fought for, which is ironic because they fought the Nazi party

I'm sure there will be people who fall for Griffin's bullshit tonight.

I really am thinking that Hammer is Ironside.

Did he not turn up not long after Ironside was banned?

This will be intresting tonight.

I want to see a riot in the studio :)

Hopefully Paxman rips Griffin to shreds

Kojak?

Not Dimbleby?

I wish it was live. If anything kicks off, the BBC are going to edit it.

  Mike Hammer ?

I thought it was live??

I thought it was live??

who gives a shit who hammer is.he positively adds to the site so good for him i say

This will be o the i-player won't it. Just checked and it doesn't finish untill half 11, which is far too late for me :(

And that's all we have time for tonight Jack.

A non-violent Ku Klux Klan.

Oh lordie.

Well that was a damp squib wasn't it ? Or did you really expect something else ? Four on the panel. Jack Straw, his usual dim self. A young female Tory Asian politician intent on furthering her own career. Huhne, who inadvertently supported Griffin by mentioning illegal immigration. And then.....nothing. It was a 0-0 draw. Grow up eh lads !

It's a funny ol game...strange how others view it differently...other football cliches etc

I saw it as quick embarrassing for the BNP.

On the point of mentioning illegal immigration- i don't think there's any party that supports illegal immegration. the terminology used suggests it's not lawful and erm probably wouldn't form part of their constitution.

I thought Bonnie made some good cultural points that highlighted how backwards the bnp are.

i'd quick like this to be a weekly show, perhaps with stonings

i'm with Melksham Red on this one.

I was disappointed that Griffin wasn't asked more about BNP's policies as opposed to being questioned about beliefs/quotes he's had in the past. We all know what he stands for, so why go over old ground?

I thought the programme merely highlighted what a terrible state British politics is in as a whole. The only reason so many of us watched was to see Griffin expose himself. The fact that I won't tune in next week highlights how disaffected I am with British politics as a whole. The BNP are abhorrent, but when Griffin accused the other parties of failing to handle immigration, none of them had an answer. If the others had spent as much time trying to offer solutions instead of attacking Griffin, I might have learned something.

They're all clueless.

It was a 0-0 draw. Grow up eh lads !

I fully agree with Melksham, Juddie and co. that it showed a lot about the state of British politics, that instead of debating the real issues at the moment (recession, Royal Mail postal strike, EU superstate, etc.) it was all about trying to make Griffin look and sound like a buffoon, which he did within 5 minutes anyway. I had to turn off after half and hour as they kept on going over the same old ground i.e. the BNP are a racist organisation.

Jack Straw also came over like a fool (no change there then) and it is the current government which is actually helping the BNP through their virtually unlimited immigration policy, which are causing a lot of people to vote BNP.

Having considered it, I think the person who debated him best was Bonnie Greer, which is telling as she was the only non politician there. She showed him a degree of respect he probably didn't deserve but also made points that he couldn't answer and challenged him on his version of history. I'd vote for her any day.

FWIW very few people vote BNP

They picked up nearly a million votes in the last Euro elections,causing them to have 2 MEP's, and that was the reason they were invited on QT, which is proably around 4-5% of the adult voting population, but due to the fact that not many people went and voted, it was around 10% of the votes cast, which for a mainly racist party, is a scary amount.

It is but i'd imagine it was a protest vote on many peoples behalf. Let's be honest no one really cares about the Euro elections anyway. The real reason they were invited to QT was to raise BBC viewing figures.

They picked up nearly a million votes in the last Euro elections,causing them to have 2 MEP's, and that was the reason they were invited on QT, which is proably around 4-5% of the adult voting population, but due to the fact that not many people went and voted, it was around 10% of the votes cast, which for a mainly racist party, is a scary amount.

I agree it was more likely a protest vote, but they could've voted for the Green party if they wanted a protest vote against the current politicians.

It's more like 2 % of the electorate, which at a time of unprecedented cynicism with politics, the MP's expenses shizzle and a major economic recession, suggests they should be doing better.

Their overall vote dropped from 4 years ago.

Interesting that today after the event and unprecedented opportunity given to him Griffin and the BNP are going to raise a formal complaint against the BBC for what they consider to have been a stitch up !? Did he really not see that coming and seriously expected to find wholesale support for his ramblings on the panel or in the audience ?

I didn't watch it and have no intention of watching it, I gave up on it a long time ago as I was sick of the constant slanging matches between the major parties rather than there being any serious political debate - which pretty much sums up politics in the UK today.

From what people have said it sounds like it wasn't a regular QT and most of it was spent bashing the BNP. You might say this was to be expected, but by allowing the format and content to change the BBC were asking for trouble. A complaint from the BNP was inevitable and unfortunately they've got a good point, I imagine there will be more to come on this.

Whether you like the BNP or not, as long as they keep within the rules and people vote for them in substantial numbers they have to be given coverage - that right and obligation is fundamental to democracy. You can't pick or choose the rules just because you don't agree with someone, no matter how sickening you find them. Its exactly the same as in the Middle East, the West encourages democracy and then gets pissed when someone gets elected that they don't like.

If people want the BNP to disappear you need to look at the reasons why people vote for them and do something about it. A lot of people are unhappy with the current immigration policies and the present government has done pretty much nothing to address those concerns. The longer the key issues go unaddressed, the longer the BNP will be with us and the stronger it will get.

Still, some good has come out of it. QT had far more viewers than normal and its triggered a political debate on here, neither of which is a bad thing given the current level of disinterest in politics in the UK.

Stop typing quick instead of quite! :)

From what people have said it sounds like it wasn't a regular QT and most of it was spent bashing the BNP. You might say this was to be expected, but by allowing the format and content to change the BBC were asking for trouble. A complaint from the BNP was inevitable and unfortunately they've got a good point, I imagine there will be more to come on this.

I think its true to say there wasn't much credibility surrounding the programme giving Griffin a platform in that format and I agree with others that have said it would have been far better to have him interviewed directly by the likes of Paxman or Kirsty Ward. The BNP clearly knew what they were letting themselves in for and now will wring every last drop of publicity out of this which explains the inevitable complaint. The BBC could end up being fall guys for bothering to take the plunge in the first place.