New beginnings - 25% Truth, 80% Bollocks

[Nemo]

I don't think anyone's (well, almost anyone's) asking for the Trust to declare war, but this is their total social activity of the last two months:

Facebook:
22 Aug: Re-posted Fair Game Index with no additionally commentary
29 July: Re-posted Fools Rush In Season Preview

Twitter:
12 Sep: Competition to win tickets to a women's team game
22 Aug: Re-posted Fair Game Index with no additional commentary
29 Jul: Re-posted Fools Rush In Season Preview
27 Jul: Well wishes to Mark Kennedy on the death of his father
17 Jul: Re-post of Football Governance bill in King's Speech

That's it. All of it. Nothing to say following up on the Fair Game index, nothing on the Fans Forum (either promoting it beforehand or talking about it after). Nothing on the Legends Lounge or Shop. Nothing on the advisory board in September. Nothing on the media rounds Clem did. Nothing about any actual football matches taking place in this period.

It's a ghost town. The member's newsletter was sent out in September and briefly covered Fair Game, Legend's Lounge and advertised the Fans Forum, but that wasn't shared publicly. The last post to their own website was on July 9th!

[Ƭ̵̬̊: The Artist Formerly Known as CWIG]

They also need an alternative before declaring war, at least without a cast iron issue to beat him with. And to not repeat what's happened this time.

This is the biggest obstacle and what we need. They need to find out who the interested parties are and convince them to go public.

[Ƭ̵̬̊: The Artist Formerly Known as CWIG]

I don't think anyone's (well, almost anyone's) asking for the Trust to declare war, but this is their total social activity of the last two months:

Its me, I'm almost anyone.

[Bogus Dave]

Has the club shop signage been fixed yet?

[Batch]

@nemo - yeah fair enough. I know they are volunteers but Comms isn't great (ironically).

[RobertT]

I'll beat the same drum I have for months - the Trust should move on, be done with Clem, and simply work on what next for club ownership/investment as it relates to the fans.  If Chris Kielys wife can buy into the club, then so can the fans.  It won't be easy, I get that, but there is nothing to salvage here - Clem and team are ignorant to whatever the fans may want.

[Pookemon]

I'll beat the same drum I have for months - the Trust should move on, be done with Clem, and simply work on what next for club ownership/investment as it relates to the fans.  If Chris Kielys wife can buy into the club, then so can the fans.  It won't be easy, I get that, but there is nothing to salvage here - Clem and team are ignorant to whatever the fans may want.

Mrs Keily was able to invest because Clem needed a few million quid quickly and she had it stuffed down the back if the sofa.

I find it hard to believe that fans would be able to find anything like that sort of money, it would need a couple of very rich town fans, and there are quite a few, to actually be willing to fund the majority of the purchase price and the c£1-2m losses going forward.   

I just don't see it happening when the same individuals could buy the the thing instead, and surely they would have done so already.

[RobertT]

I'm not saying it has to be to buy the whole thing, and I'm certainly not saying it would be quick or easy.  I'm saying the Trust should focus on that - if a new owner pops up in the meantime, great, but between now and then, the Trust should revert it's focus to what it was supposed to be about - full or partial ownership and/or representation on the Board.  There are multiple ways that can be achieved, but worrying about what Hall or Clem fucked up this week, or last year, is a waste of time and effort now.  They've failed the competency test, they or those around them may fail the ethical test, they are not about to have an epiphany.

[Ƭ̵̬̊: The Artist Formerly Known as CWIG]

I'll beat the same drum I have for months - the Trust should move on, be done with Clem, and simply work on what next for club ownership/investment as it relates to the fans.  If Chris Kielys wife can buy into the club, then so can the fans.  It won't be easy, I get that, but there is nothing to salvage here - Clem and team are ignorant to whatever the fans may want.

This.

[Ƭ̵̬̊: The Artist Formerly Known as CWIG]

I'm not saying it has to be to buy the whole thing, and I'm certainly not saying it would be quick or easy.  I'm saying the Trust should focus on that - if a new owner pops up in the meantime, great, but between now and then, the Trust should revert it's focus to what it was supposed to be about - full or partial ownership and/or representation on the Board.  There are multiple ways that can be achieved, but worrying about what Hall or Clem fucked up this week, or last year, is a waste of time and effort now.  They've failed the competency test, they or those around them may fail the ethical test, they are not about to have an epiphany.

Again, this.

[UTR]

Fan ownership is a funny one, I agree in principle it’s the ideal but I’m not sure it’s the solution for our case. (I’m aware that sounds weird after moaning about poor ownership).

Exeter is the prime example of how it can work in the football league. Fan owned with self sustainability through reinvesting profits from selling produced assets from their academy. But I’m not sure that setup and its achievements would necessarily align with us if we want to get any further than a middling league one level (granted that’s a decent level above what we are now).

To progress past that reasonably (and not just flop back down) would require a huge investment, one that you’d either need to find a/a number of fans with deep enough pockets to fill or outside investment. Outside investment and fan ownership doesn’t tend to mix amazingly in this country, we’ve seen examples where those outside investors willing to invest those sums want to buy out everyone else (fans or not) and be the sole controllers.

A tricky one for sure, can see both sides. Although most of that discussion relates to a normally functioning football club, in our current case it’s a much different circumstance in which not all of that reasoning may apply.

[Wobbly Bob]

Yeah, Pompey is a good example of Trust ownership (majority) between 2013-2017 during which time the ship was steadied and then voting to sell up to the Disney guy / venture capital group.
Now find themselves in the Championship.

The history might be worth reading up on to get an idea of how much the fans had to come up with initially etc.

[Pookemon]

Lets not forget that in recent times the trust was a minority shareholder in the club and managed to get someone on the Board but we are still where we are.

The problem is not so much the purchase price but funding of the losses which have ballooned in the bottom 2 leagues since covid to around £1-2m per year in league 2 and £4-5m in league 1.    Partial ownership won't work unless the trust is able and prepared to fund its share of the losses, if not then it will just get diluted out as happened under Black.
 
Good, competent ownership is far more important than fan ownership regardless of how emotionally appealing that may be.

[RobertT]

The entire Bundelsiga is calling and wants it's ownership model back.....sorry, being flippant.

Again - I am not saying it's easy or immediate, but it can be done.  Exeter are actually a good example - because logic tells us that if we simply replicate their model, our ceiling should be a little higher.  Once we reach that ceiling, you'd talk about what next, like Pompey.

I am also not suggesting Clem is particularly likely to entertain much right now - I'm not talking about a plan to offer him out by Christmas though.  He may not even be the owner by the time it would be possible or needed (a willing seller or collapsing business), although good PR could apply a certain amount of pressure even in our current structure.  Is Chris's wife supporting the losses?  Doesn't appear to be, Clem tells us they are "silent" partners, but the real target of fan ownership in the short term would obviously be to create a well run and sustainable club, source funding where needed, seek other investment avenues, and so on.  Something that would take months, maybe years to plan for properly - so switch focus to that.

The Trust cannot be an extension of the Supporters Club and it should not be just some sort of protest vehicle that gets trotted out to tut loudly in the press.  If it is, then it is pointless.  Expecting it to start lambasting Clem every time he fucks up or says something stupid is a fools errand, and likely never ending.  He's not going to listen, his idea of engagement is a one way street which he blocks off when the receiver is not delivering what he wants.

[Posh Red]

Clem mentioned in one of his interviews that he decided to increase the budget for this season rather than buy the shares back he sold off. That’s what the Trust should focus on, buying those shares back so that (in theory) Clem aside the other shareholders are the fans