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horlock07

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« Reply #180 on: Thursday, August 20, 2020, 16:40:22 »

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/20/politics/bannon-indictment/index.html

It doesn't look good for them - In summary, they funneled around $1.5m out of the "Charity" and moved it around before sending it back to themselves and sent text messages to each other providing an evidence trail!

I suspect, much like Al Capone (hopefully on both sides of the Atlantic) its going to be something financial and small that brings the cards crashing down!
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Aaron Aardvark

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« Reply #181 on: Friday, August 21, 2020, 10:07:05 »

I suspect, much like Al Capone (hopefully on both sides of the Atlantic) its going to be something financial and small that brings the cards crashing down!
At least on that side of the Atlantic they do get arrested, even if Trump pardons them. Over here, Jenrick's been caught red-handed taking bribes and didn't even apologise, much less get his collar felt. Leaving aside the clear corruption of the PPE contracts and all the cash Gove's handing out to his mates.
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bamboonoshop

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« Reply #182 on: Friday, August 21, 2020, 13:04:18 »

This fred in name, just makes me think of the Razorlight tune. When Borrell wrote that simple but effective chorus, he nailed the epitome of world media regarding the USA (and several other countries). Lyrically accurate as fuck.
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Richie Wellen-Dowd

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« Reply #183 on: Monday, August 24, 2020, 07:38:23 »

Horrific video doing the rounds this morning of another black man being murdered in front of his wife and kids. Jesus.
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« Reply #184 on: Monday, August 24, 2020, 09:15:33 »

Are you talking about the Wisconsin shooting? The guy's in hospital, in a serious condition.
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Bob's Orange

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« Reply #185 on: Monday, August 24, 2020, 09:21:49 »

Are you talking about the Wisconsin shooting? The guy's in hospital, in a serious condition.

There is a video of that on the BBC. Why not use Tasers in those situations?
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« Reply #186 on: Monday, August 24, 2020, 10:41:58 »

there's no context with the video.

it looks like the police just shot him in the back as he got in the car.

but it's possible he said "I'm going to kill you" before walking back to the car

I'm not victim blaming, and yes you'd think a taser would take him out either way.

If it is like it looks,  it's attempted manslaughter.
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Flashheart

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« Reply #187 on: Monday, August 24, 2020, 10:45:19 »

They appear to have terrible training all round. About the only thing they do seem proficient at is aiming and shooting.

Although, and I'm not trying to make excuses for them, it's probably harder for them considering there's a good chance the other guy has a gun as well.
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Bob's Orange

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« Reply #188 on: Monday, August 24, 2020, 10:55:10 »

there's no context with the video.

it looks like the police just shot him in the back as he got in the car.

but it's possible he said "I'm going to kill you" before walking back to the car

I'm not victim blaming, and yes you'd think a taser would take him out either way.

If it is like it looks,  it's attempted manslaughter.

Great point Batch, with limited context its very tough to know whether what the police did was justified (although looks highly unlikely)
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« Reply #189 on: Monday, August 24, 2020, 12:06:53 »

there's no context with the video.

it looks like the police just shot him in the back as he got in the car.

but it's possible he said "I'm going to kill you" before walking back to the car

I'm not victim blaming, and yes you'd think a taser would take him out either way.

If it is like it looks,  it's attempted manslaughter.

Haven't seen the video and don't know the context, but how can shooting someone be attempted manslaughter, rather than murder?
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Flashheart

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« Reply #190 on: Monday, August 24, 2020, 12:12:17 »

If he survives, then it's attempted whatever.

Either way, for it to be murder or attempted murder, they'd have to be able to prove the intention was to kill him - which can be very hard to do.
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« Reply #191 on: Monday, August 24, 2020, 12:49:00 »

^^^

yes probably not the legal right term . but murder, at least in this country. is premeditated

I can't believe they went out to kill a black person when their shift started.

was just trying to distinguish between what they did and murder.

you can drop the attempted if he's died, and insert whatever term you like
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RobertT

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« Reply #192 on: Monday, August 24, 2020, 13:03:38 »

If he survives, then it's attempted whatever.

Either way, for it to be murder or attempted murder, they'd have to be able to prove the intention was to kill him - which can be very hard to do.

Yep, I think there are grades of offence as well.  Certainly very few Police Officers get convicted of murder if shooting someone in the line of duty.
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JBZ

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« Reply #193 on: Monday, August 24, 2020, 18:26:40 »

If he survives, then it's attempted whatever.

Either way, for it to be murder or attempted murder, they'd have to be able to prove the intention was to kill him - which can be very hard to do.

It should be noted that in England and Wales, murder involves the intention to kill or cause grievous bodily harm. Not sure if the position is similar in the US.
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« Reply #194 on: Monday, August 24, 2020, 18:32:48 »

It should be noted that in England and Wales, murder involves the intention to kill or cause grievous bodily harm. Not sure if the position is similar in the US.

First-degree murder
Any intentional murder that is willful and premeditated with malice aforethought. Felony murder, a charge that may be filed against a defendant who is involved in a dangerous crime where a death results from the crime,[12] is typically first-degree.[13]

Second-degree murder
Any intentional murder with malice aforethought, but is not premeditated or planned in advance.[14]

Voluntary manslaughter
Sometimes called a crime of passion murder, is any intentional killing that involves no prior intent to kill, and which was committed under such circumstances that would "cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed". Both this and second-degree murder are committed on the spot under a spur-of-the-moment choice, but the two differ in the magnitude of the circumstances surrounding the crime. For example, a bar fight that results in death would ordinarily constitute second-degree murder. If that same bar fight stemmed from a discovery of infidelity, however, it may be voluntary manslaughter.[15]

Involuntary manslaughter
A killing that stems from a lack of intention to cause death but involving an intentional or negligent act leading to death. A drunk driving–related death is typically involuntary manslaughter (see also vehicular homicide, causing death by dangerous driving, gross negligence manslaughter and causing death by criminal negligence for international equivalents). Note that the "unintentional" element here refers to the lack of intent to bring about the death. All three crimes above feature an intent to kill, whereas involuntary manslaughter is "unintentional", because the killer did not intend for a death to result from their intentional actions. If there is a presence of intention it relates only to the intent to cause a violent act which brings about the death, but not an intention to bring about the death itself.[16]
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