Thetownend.com

What a fucking trainwreck.

Just seen a video on twitter where there was a stand off between looters and the owners of the store they were trying to loot. The old bill showed up, the looters ran away, and the old bill arrested the (black) store owners.

They then arrested some random woman who was just driving past.

Its not going to be easy to resolve is it.

I'm sure that incident won't be magnified to fan the flames!

And it looks like the neo nazi morons are now on the move there. Going to get v bad, and where america starts we will follow. well not us, but lots of people will.

It's been incredible viewing (not in a good way) especially the footage of TV crews and journalists getting zero leeway. Worldwide coverage of a nation that isn't dealing with this very well at all.

Who'd have thought the combination of racial tension, polarised politics, the 'war' on media, a surge in unemployment and the rest of the fallout from COVID-19 would create this mess?

You appear to have mis-spelled "deliberately shot and beaten up by uniformed hooligans who have been given a sense of complete impunity by a deranged fascist President".

Its fucked up, and neither side are covering themselves in glory.

It's plain and clear that black people are targeted for no reason other than the color of their skin, but then you see all the looting and violence that a select few cause and its like...come on! really?

I also feel sorry for Law Enforcement because the actions of a few tars everyone with the same brush and all of a sudden every single one is in the wrong in the eyes of some.

Its a lose lose situation and Trump isn't helping the situation.

:hmmm:

Spot the difference:

White, bearded men, en masse, bearing guns sweep in to a State Government building to protest about not being able to have haircuts and get Trump's support..... :hmmm:

Plenty of video out there illustrating that a hell of a lot of the looters and rioters are white, also been noted that a fair few of those arrested have  links to white supremacist groups.

It's absolutely crazy over there, especially the way the unrest has quickly spread to many other states and cities. A part of me did think Trump might attempt to diffuse it somehow, but he's doubling down and now threatening to turn the army on the people. I saw that last night a car was driven into and through a crowd of riot police and national guardsmen, and that officers in St Louis were shot.

Twitter have also acknowledged they're taking down fake accounts inciting violence purporting to be "AntiFa" or Black Lives Matter that have been created by white supremacist or "alt-right" (aka digital Nazis) groups

There have also been multiple examples of vehicles being driven at crowds of protestors and drive-by shootings of protest crowds, including at least one murder. The assumption is these attacks are from the far right.

I don't mean to be rude, but... what? Really? The racist-in-chief manbaby?

I should have known better!

Just thought he or somebody near him might be able to understand that this is unlikely to end well, especially when inflamed.

Think it was said on the politics thread, he probably regards a race war as his best chance of winning in November. Everything he does is viewed through the lens of activating his base. He's loving it

Can I recommend 'Faranheit 11 9', a Michael Moore film on Netflix.

The last 15 minutes is absolutely frightening in the light of current events.

Or alternatively cancelling the election in light of civil unrest?

Can he do that legally? Not that the legality would necessarily bother him

I assume its much the same like the cancellation of the locals over here due to C-19, one thing for Trump the events following Floyd have rather taken his C-19 response off the front pages.

100% his rationale. Watched the live coverage on CNN last night, clearly showing he authorised the use of tear gas and rubber bullets against his own people, who at the time were conducting a very peaceful protest outside the White House, purely so that he could walk across to a church (which he doesnt attend) for a photo opportunity of him holding a bible (which he doesnt read). A dangerous dictator,  he wouldnt be out of place in China or Russia. He is inciting a Civil War.

"Is that your Bible?"

"It's A Bible"

 :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

Love the way it takes him quite a while to figure out how he wants to hold it up too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWEuY_15iVc

And the peaceful sound of sirens and bangs in the background.

I don't really get the whole bible thing, unless he thinks that everyone not white is immediately not Christian?

I have never read the bible, but I am not aware of the bit that states its fine for you to order peaceful citizens to be shot and and sprayed with tear gas just so you can got for a photo opp?

The bible could be (and has been) used to support all sorts of atrocities. Nothing comes to my on this specifically (I have read it, but it's a lot to remember). I'm sure some evangelical will come out with a verse that will support his actions sooner or later, though.

‘Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.’

Do you have a link to that out of interest? I personally think the odd neo-nazi might have tried to instigate things in places and then melt away, but there's no way they can organise thousands of young whites to turn up and coincidentally look and act like antifa. I've found it a bit ridiculous how many people are feigning ignorance of what antifa are(not you!) so that they can take them on face value of their name.

I'll have to root around as it was yesterday morning, will look on the other computer later once we get back from our first socially distanced engagement with the in laws for 10 weeks!

Edit - Google threw this out https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/george-floyd-protests-white-supremacists-minnesota-minneapolis-st-paul-a9541676.html , but there were pictures elsewhere of people in custody with plenty of far right tattoos on their bodies. 

The whole antifa tag is something of a nonsense as the anti fascist movement is made up of literally  hundreds of organisations.

Antifa isn't even an organisation at all. It's just a name given for people who oppose fascism.

And Trump wants to ban it. He literally wants to oppose opposition to facism.

Probably more to do with the anarchistic yobs who smash places up.

It's a lot more to do with Trump's standard response to anything that might reflect badly on him: look for someone else to blame. Preferably one of the following: the Dems, the media, the left, Chyyynaaa.

Then why not try and ban the neo-nazis as well?

Banning any form of extremism gets my vote

You do realise, of course, that that would in itself be an act of extremism? #4DsThoughtPolice

Cool.

But you're not the president. Trump is. And he is trying to ban opposition to facism, but not pro-facist groups.

I rather think that Trump's actions are more pertinent to the topic than the thoughts and/or actions of anybody in this forum.

That's a bit extreme Paul  :)

Extremely :)

From the little I've read about it from before all this happened, although they might not have a cetralised leadership they are organised into city chapters. To me they've always seemed like anarchists, smash the system and a starbucks. Personally i don't see them as real allies of black people in America, although clearly that's none of my business to chose.

You are going some when you have the Chechen leader suggesting you need to rein things in a little.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/trump-kadyrov-chechnya-us-human-rights-protest-a9544016.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/white-supremacist-telegram-channel-encourages-violence-george-floyd-protests-2020-6

I left alone, my mind was blank...

Interesting on Instagram that the ‘blackout’ posts are being tagged with BlackLivesMatter, which means that if you search that tag you see black screens rather than any of the actual footage

Don’t think there’s anything nefarious behind it, more just a good example of people offering ‘support’ that doesn’t actually do anything to help the cause other than make the person feel good about doing something. Which, from what I’ve read, is one of the things that angers BLM

Got the red vinyl  ;)

He is also trying to ban an organisation that doesn't really exist and even if it did, antifa is a domestic entity and, as such, not a candidate for inclusion on the State Department's list of foreign terror organisations.

Its almost like he doesn't know what he is doing.

A brief antifa for dummies guide.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/X56rQkDgd0qqB7R68t6t7C/seven-things-you-need-to-know-about-antifa

The thing is if Trump had taken note of the repeated calls, particularly after mass shootings by white supremacists, to establish a domestic terrorism law, he could ban them but he decided not to do so, I wonder why?

No, what you're seeing is that most people are literally posting a black image. It isn't because of the hashtag used. So what you're "seeing" is what you're supposed to be seeing. Also I can vouch for it because one of my posts has a video and is tagged with #BlackLivesMatter and you can definitely see the video.

Also don't necessarily agree with your comment about people doing it to "feel better". There will always be a section of people that do of course but I don't think that's a consensus. Not when a lot of the people posting are black.

Short of flying out to the USA, protesting or paying to donate to certain charities, is there really any problem with people showing online support on top of may be doing other things too (like calling people out for their enabled closet racism, et al)? Especially when considering that we are in a pandemic, so online has become even more of the go to tool as a visual presence in making a stand. Mass protest in public is more difficult for obvious reasons and have no issue with an online statement of support.

Thank you for your essay. I’m aware of how Instagram works - if you search #blacklivesmatter, rather than seeing footage or things useful to the cause you see black screens due to people using the tag to offer support/virtue signal (depending on your outlook). Doing so diluted the actual’ blm messaging

Those far away could always post without the tag, or donate to one of the hundreds of charities supporting the cause

Have you called it out when there have been instances here on the TEF?

White supremacists and far-right extremists are now responsible for the vast majority of terrorism in the US and have been for the past decade:

https://www.lawfareblog.com/addressing-national-security-threat-white-supremacist-terrorism

The article is from 6 months ago, so given there have been several far right killings since then, the proportion of 73% of terrorist-related deaths attributable to the far-right is likely to have increased since then.

I did mention this above. Whether you chose to read it is another matter. However, we are also in a pandemic and not everyone has a job now, let alone the disposable income to donate at this moment. Although people should - if they can afford to do so. Not everyone can.

If you're so aware of how "it" works then you'll know that the posting of black screens is being widely supported. There are other hashtags you can look at if you want to explore more BLM posts; it isn't exclusive to just #BlackLivesMatter but then you'd know that, wouldn't you?

Yes. Although online can sometimes be a shit place to be and when you have family members in real life that need calling out, then sometimes that important discussion comes first.

Noted.  The point made earlier was a good one in my view. Adopting images on social media accounts because you think you should is one thing, but it's all very hollow, if in reality, that's the full extent of your 'condemnation'.

Im not saying don’t post a black screen in support. I’m saying that tagging it with #blm prevents actual blm content from being as accessible - which is what has happened

Agreed and people should do more. Opening up a discussion and adopting images/supporting a movement via social media is a good starting point; today it is one of the largest ways to gain exposure (even more so in this environment).

Sometimes people can't always do more (esp. financially) and genuinely feel helpless. But they can at least start a discussion and if that happens to be online? So be it. One would hope that those conversations can spill into their real lives and to families, friends, colleagues and so on.

Well that’s today’s sermon done with quite early I suppose

It'll all be forgotten tomorrow anyway when the next Facebook fad comes along.

Many of us can remember the riots in St Paul's, Handsworth & Toxteth in the early 80's

It's not Sunday. I practice what I preach  ;)


Not for me it won't.

Je suis Charlie

This annoys me no end. The spreading of fake news. The thing is, people lap it up. I don't need snopes to tell me that guy was no FBI agent.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fbi-agent-arrested-protests/

It just intentionally fuels an allready raging fire.

Disclaimer: What happened in that video was still wrong

It’s all a bit weird here.  In the town where we live they had a protest in the main square but it was all very civil with Police and Protestors mingling.  Which is weird itself, because overt racism is just around the corner here.  So for anyone wondering why they powder keg set off, it’s because there are still plenty of public racists here, it’s not a big leap to see some of those people may join the police.

Trump is loved by a small but not insignificant group, usually white and usually no higher than a High School education.  That’s not a stereotype, it’s real.  It is a group that the USA forgot about when all the jobs where automated or offshored.  That is not to say they’ve had it tough, it’s a new phenomenon, but it created a sense of being shat on, not unlike the centuries of shit the African Americans have taken to a much worse extent.  You now have two groups fighting to be the ones most downtrodden and it’s ugly.

I doubt Trump wins this time. The middle ground will likely pop out to vote against him, but his ability to motivate a small group of voters can’t be ignored.

Sorry BD only just seen this. Seems like we posted at pretty much the same time.

Yes, I agree with what you mean I think possibly it came across a little differently in the original message. I have largely used the #BlackOutTuesday for the black screens and asked others to do so too. Only in the video have I kept the #BlackLivesMatter tag.

Anyway, I'll be auctioning off one of my black & white prints from tomorrow and all proceeds will go to SARI. So once the link is up, even if you're not a fan of my photography. I invite you all to bid. If you can afford to do so.

Given that the US political system is inherently binary - you're blue or red, and that's it - I would imagine that capturing the centre ground would be enough.  The problem for Trump, though, is that he only knows how to talk to the MAGA crowd, and they're in the bag already.  He squeezed through last time by coming 2nd (in terms of votes cast) in a 2 horse race - which is weird in itself.  But you have to hope that if he continues as he is now, he won't be so lucky this November.

I think you're right, both about the likely outcome in November and a very good analysis of the "two groups fighting to be the ones most downtrodden and it’s ugly". The thing is that this genie isn't going back in the bottle. People seem to think that if Trump is defeated in November, that's it, it's all good and we can go back to how everything was before. But it won't. Trump has enabled and emboldened overt racists and white supremacists in a way we've not seen before (or at least not since the 1960s) and they're not going away. That's why the white supremacist/neo-Nazi fringe were so delighted when he won, not because they really thought he'd suddenly immediately enact all their White Power shit, but because they knew he'd given permission for their hatred to go mainstream. That problem will remain whatever happens in November

On a more selfish level it is going to royally fuck up the UK considering that our government have pinned their mast to him and this idea that through the links our governments enjoy at the moment we will get a good trade deal (FWIW I don't believe this for a minute).

See also https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/dominic-raab-donald-trump-george-floyd_uk_5ed38d32c5b66f44f99c5a1d


A trait he shared with Jeremy Corbyn.

It may spare us from our govt tieing us into a disastrous trade deal with the US which destroys food standards and opens our public services up to pillaging from US mega-corporations.

One of Trump's latest tweets 'get tough police' I doubt is going to help quell these matters somehow.

What an ass hat.

Wonder whether Andrew Neill will get the same scrutiny and rebuke from the BBC that Maitlis (And Munchetty before) got?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZf1dbsXYAEqrr5?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Blimey.

Doubt it, unlike the other two it wasn't on the Beeb, done while at work. Don't people often put a twitter disclaimer 'views are my own' ?

I wouldn't put too much faith in anything Andy Ngo says, he's been assaulted by antifa a few times and i think he got a blood clot on his brain the last time. Not the most impartial commentators to say the least.

As for Andrew Neil, I'd assume he's safe from scrutiny because he's not on a bbc tv show at the time(that's not to say I agree with the others being censored). He's actually shared and posted a lot of criticism of Johnson and his government recently, which should also be frowned on if this is, no?

I must confess I wasn't fully aware of Mr Ngo and his work, a little research emphasised that he is something of the provocateur.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/josephbernstein/andy-ngo-portland-antifa.

Some complain that they should be protesting peacefully.

This bloke could not have been acting more peacefully, yet: https://twitter.com/joncoopertweets/status/1268150549666500608

I hope they burn the fucking place down. Nothing else has worked so far. I only hope they target the large businesses/establishments and leave the small business owners alone.

https://www.thenation.com/article/activism/antifa-trump-fbi/

Obama addressing the US this evening

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZkEXfxUcAElNPC?format=jpg&name=900x900)

I know you don’t mean literally, but what would ‘burning it down’ achieve exactly? I really don’t get all these people that seem to advocate burning everything down! Same goes for targeting companies of any size, protesting is one thing, advocating wanton destruction is quite another and would likely cause untold harm everyone.

What did throwing tea into Boston harbour achieve 250-odd years ago??

Yeah the population wanted a better, fairer system, but they didn’t need to destroy property to get it

I do mean it literally. Or at least important businesses and landmarks etc. Set them on fucking fire - literally.

Maybe it will make people stop treating them like cunts.

And maybe it won't, but nothing else has worked. Might as well give it a go. Fucking keep it up until those at the top start taking notice I say.

How many serious issues regarding equality in society have been settled with peaceful protests?
How many have been solved by bringing the establishment to their knees?

My main issue with the idea is the orange cunt at the top, though. He's far too arrogant to concede. Although he might be forced to if congress grew some fucking spines among them.

I suggest a reference to Tariq Jahan should be made.

So the majority of the population who treat people equally and agree with the cause should all suffer, lose their jobs and livelihoods as businesses are burnt to the ground so that it puts everyone on the same level?  
As for landmarks a lot of them are of historical importance, like the Lincoln memorial got defaced the other day. It would be the equivalent of us destroying Westminster, the Royal Palaces etc.

So the minorities should just suffer and be allow themselves to be killed (literally) so as not to upset the others? I know what I'd say to that if I was black an living in America.

And fuck the 'historical importance' of landmarks. Peoples' lives are immeasurably more valuable.

And I have already pointed out that I think small businesses should be left alone.

Let the corpations and insurance comapnies take the brunt. Hit the politicains and their cronies where it hurts them most.

This is a democracy where the people voted in the establishment, why are you not blaming the people?

No it isn’t.  It is aFederal Republic of States.  The popular vote doesn’t even count, let alone the fact that two of the past three Presidents didn’t even win the Popular vote.

You do understand that who you vote for is not necessarilly who gets into power, right?

And that the establishment can be corrupt to the core no wonder who gets in?

^ And what RobertT said.

Do you think the police or public were any different under Obama's tenure?

Hard core Constitutionalists will delight in telling you how it is not a Democracy and it is in fact a great experiment designed to limit the excesses of Government and empower the individual.  The problem they are facing is that human nature is a fucking arse and come individuals are empowered more than others.  Over time they just go an create the same upper power chamber they sought to get rid of centuries ago by banishing a Kings army.  The concept seems sound, but it is always only as strong as the people’s weakest behaviours.  Much of what has made America an economic behemoth is entirely because they were able use and abuse the Natives, then Blacks and so on.  Plenty of people are alive from a generation that wasn’t a million miles from South Africa’s viewpoint before Mandela.  While it improves with each passing generation, it has not gone away, and is deep routed in some places.

I doubt they were any different.

Which only makes it even more necessary to turn the whole fucking system over.

Your whatabouttery makes me think you are making assumptions about my position politically. I have no sides in this politically. Trump is a cunt but that doesn't mean the rest of them are OK. (Better, but still not OK)

No, which is the point.  It’s deep in the culture still.  By the way, Trump is merely a match, the kindling has been there for a long time.  The very nature of the Govt here means it can’t nor will it be accepted as being the instigator of change.  America is ruled by big corporations and Churches.

I say all that as someone loving living here.  It has big faults, but much to admire as well.

I also don’t really have much of an idea how to fix the bigger problems.  Trump is clearly not helping.

Well that's going well. As to the first part, I don't think you have to be a constitutional nerd to recognise the US is no longer a functioning democracy

Curtis Hayes has tried his version.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1268355387742445570.html

Trump's former Defence Secretary, Gen James Mattis has spoken out in support of protestors and denounced Trump as a threat to the constitution. It's a powerful read

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/james-mattis-denounces-trump-protests-militarization/612640/

Tripped & fell.....

https://twitter.com/PhillyD/status/1268727223923535872?s=20

Just a couple of bad apples. And about 50 more bad apples that watched it happen and did nothing. And an entire police command that thought they could get away with lying about it. So pretty much a whole dept of bad apples then

https://twitter.com/lookingforkb/status/1268771830808150021

Fucking hell

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-george-floyd-press-conference-today-job-numbers-a9551426.html

https://twitter.com/vladduthiersCBS/status/1268920235706458113

https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1266751520055459847?s=19 (https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1266751520055459847?s=19)

300+ examples of police brutality in the US protests.

It needs something bigger for this to change. I don't know what, only that it needs to be bigger.

The two scumbags who did this (pushed and punched a 75-year old man to the floor, leaving him lying in a pool of blood from a severe head injury) have been suspended from the force. The response of their colleagues in the "Emergency Response Team"? They have all resigned from the ERT en masse in a show of support of the two suspended thugs. It's not just a few bad apples, this is systemic in some - all too many - US police forces.

https://twitter.com/DaveGreber4/status/1268977512320819203

I originally read that as they resigned in support of 'the protestors'.

Rereading it made me do a double take.

It only reinforces what I have been saying earlier.

Burn it down --- literally. With fire.

Just leave the small businesses and innocent people out of it.

Obviously I would choose a better solution if there was one. But until somebody does come up with a better solution that it's petrol and matches all the way.

Sorry, edited it to make it clearer. Absolutely astonishing isn't it? And so brazen. This, and the brazen beatings in front of cameras, including beating TV reporters holding those cameras, is the behaviour of a gang of thugs that is used to getting away with murder. Literally

Those poor officers were "simply following orders"...

Nuremburg trials are not a good thing to reference lads, you need to hide it a bit better
https://buffalonews.com/2020/06/05/57-members-of-buffalo-police-riot-response-team-resign/

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/11/us/tulsa-police-handcuff-teenagers-jaywalking/index.html

I doubt this happens every day, but they really know how to help their own cause.

I've just had to look up what 'jaywalking' is.  Land of the Free...seriously?!   ;D

It’s a law in plenty of others countries as well

But not one you get hand-cuffed and pushed to the floor for committing in most countries...

https://youtu.be/3tR6mKcBbT4 (https://youtu.be/3tR6mKcBbT4)

A friend of mine unfortunately shared the Candace Owen's video referenced by Chappelle, without really understanding what he was sharing. It did amuse me to hear him rip into her after she was praising him the other day.

Trump explaining veterans health care

"Sometimes you'll see a building it costs less money than another building that costs more because the one that built the one that costs more, this one looks better, the one that's cheaper, it looks better."

He continued: "They say, 'how much more did you spend for that building?' Actually we spent less. You can do that, it's called: You have to know what you're doing. If you know what you're doing."

The subject of bias in the U.K. TV news has been discussed recently.  It could be worse, Fox News just got caught “photoshopping” an armed individual into multiple images to sit alongside their story about a part of Seattle that has declared itself autonomous.  The original photo is real, but they just took that image and popped it into lots of others to make it look like armed nutters were running the show.  The reality is the guy in question is actually a second amendment activist.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/inspiring-story-of-seattle-mans-coronavirus-survival-comes-with-a-1-1-million-dollar-hospital-bill/

Jeez $10000 per night for the room! That's why Parliament should be burned If any sort of deal with the NHS is concocted.

Fucking hell (its not a nice watch).

https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1272177941519257600?s=20

That is so disturbing.  What possible justification is there for that? It was an execution.

the only explanation I can think of was that they thought he had a weapon and when he sat up they thought he was going for it.

No I don't see how that explanation could possibly be from that footage either. Was just wracking my brains to try and make sense of it and it's all I could come up (like Justine Damond)

I still don't get why that means you need to execute them. It's a really strange thing and over there they think it's completely normal. I also read comments on that that said "well he disobeyed the police!" like it is worth of capital punishment.

He was pointing and waving what looked to be a handgun at passers-by, cocking the action etc. What he was reaching for was a BB replica gun.

Still, it doesn't excuse the fact that it was a feeble attempt to de-escalate the situation.

shoot first 'policy', it's a different culture entirely.

A lot of the lockdown protestors had serious weaponry (looked like AK47s) when they were gathered en masse in public, that’s what I don’t get. Why does one situation spark one very aggressive response whilst the other is passively observed. I

I don't get it either

Numbers. 5 of them, heavily armed, can be pretty confident they can shoot one guy and it won't escalate further. But taking on 100-odd heavily armed militia nutjobs you're going to have to go prepared for a small war. You're risking massive casualties on both sides, not to mention any innocent members of the public (inc state senators in the invasion of the Michigan Capitol) who get caught in the crossfire.

Meanwhile in Seattle, cops thought it was good idea to mace a 7 year old kid who was standing peacefully with his, also peaceful, family. No reason, no explanation, no apology, didn't even try to help the kid as he screamed in pain. Wonder if that child will grow up thinking the police are there to help him?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/fox-news-monty-python-joke-seattle-protests-a9565506.html

It's a gift that keeps on giving

You missed the bit where they nicked the bloke who filmed them doing it.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/15/outrage-video-police-mace-child-seattle-protest

Bloody hell. Some of these police forces do seem to act more like an occupying army than public servants

If America could see the injustice inflicted on Americans by America it would invade America.

Judging from the behaviour of Minneapolis PD, NYPD and Seattle PD* I think they think that is exactly what they have done and that they are the occupying army!


*(other brutal police forces also available in some localities)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcuPL8n9I0g

I worked in a shop that had a window display for that album. A passer-by complained to the manager, & we had to take the display down. I think the complaint was about the nudity rather than the title. I took the window display home anyway.

Trump thinks that if the US stopped testing right now, they'd have very few COVID cases, if any

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/502819-trump-on-coronavirus-if-we-stop-testing-right-now-wed-have-very-few-cases

This is like my dog "hiding" behind a bush with his whole body sticking out because he thinks if he can't see me, I can't see him. Except my dog would do a better job of being President.

He's rambling on at the moment, supposedly to launch some Executive Orders relating to Police reform (in reality he has little power to do anything on that front), but he's barely mentioned the issues facing the Nation on that front.  INstead he's gone off on one about Coronovirus, the economy, Police doing a great job on 9/11 and essentially patting himself on the back as much as he can manage while using as few words as possible (his vocab when off script is stunningly poor).

I am hoping Biden beats him in November, not that I rate Biden at all, but at least things will be quieter.

Oh, and the self appointed Militia sparked a fight and some gun shots in New Mexico last night - at least in the UK you get people pissing up against a wall while missing with air kicks and giving it large, imagine them with guns!

https://www.foxnews.com/us/north-carolina-police-officers-fired-racist-rant-slaughter-black-people-civil-war

It's OK, it's not systemic or anything.

Meanwhile, in Portland, federal officers in military uniforms but with no insignia and no ID are driving around in unmarked vans attacking and abducting protesters from the streets, separate from and refusing to work with local law enforcement. I say "federal officers" as the US Marshalls, the Dept of Homeland Security and other federal agenices have admitted being involved, but given they don't have insginia/ID and are refusing to identify themselves, who knows? They could be private militias or just armed gangs that Trump has deputised? No ID, no reason given for "arrests", no due process, no legal recourse for those abducted in this way. This is actual fascism.

https://www.newsandguts.com/video/portland-federal-officials-use-unmarked-vehicles-to-detain-protesters/

https://www.opb.org/news/article/federal-law-enforcement-unmarked-vehicles-portland-protesters/

That's scary.

Meanwhile in China:

https://twitter.com/PDog119/status/1283359233866637314

(Drone footage of Uighurs bound and blindfolded being deported on trains to concentration camps)

The first post is how it starts, this is how it progresses. We all know how it ends

Organ harvesting going on too apparently. Jesus. A horendous country.
https://www.businessinsider.com/china-harvesting-organs-of-uighur-muslims-china-tribunal-tells-un-2019-9?r=US&IR=T

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53481537

I think the AG was talking about dropping the case, I very much doubt it goes far in that State.

Trump's getting proper scary now.

When has he ever been anything else (other than a constant cunt) than that?

What has he done now?

He kept repeating person, woman, man, camera, TV during an interview...

Thing is this test that he keeps banging on about like it proves he is some sort of genius is actually the test they give to see if you have dementia, my mum had to have it to prove her mental faculties to sign a legal document, she passed and she did have dementia and died shortly afterwards.

Suspect it refers to this
being extended to Chicago, Kansas City, Albequerque and other US cities. As widely predicted, Portland was just a test run for widespread deployment of paramilitary federal officers on the streets of US cities, kidnapping and attacking protestors. This is, btw, a massive violation of the US constitution as well as being just obviously massively authoritarian.

The Portland mayor has already demanded the federal troops leave. How long before before there is a stand-off between state and federal forces?

He's also been labelling opposition politicians as extremists.

And the long-standing vilification of the media and courts. All standard tactics from the dictator's playbook.

Also.

Where are all the gun nuts that claim they want their guns for protection against a tyrannous government? It's happening now. Literally. This is your fucking moment. You only have one fucking job.

A cynic might think it was just a weak excuse all along.

I saw one of the usual "ProTrump MAGA 2nd Amendment" suspects commenting on a thread on Twitter re the Portland deployments and saying "This is why we need the 2nd Amendment to keep our gun rights". So I asked him if he was heading down to Portland to use his right to bear arms to defend the protestors against a tyrannous govt. He didn't reply and blocked me. So looks like it as a penis substitute all the time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvxj5gWah_E&feature=emb_rel_end

I'll miss him when he's gone

When Trump loses the election *touches wood*, she could do Boris instead.

https://twitter.com/MelissaStetten/status/1286544779338162176?s=20

Trump bragging to an interviewer that Ameria has better covid stats than 'the world'.

And that wasn't even the worst part of the interview, it's just the easiest to write down.

"We're lower than the world"

Yes, yes, you are.

Read Sinclair Lewis' novel 'It Can't Happen Here', from the 1930s.  It is happening.

The guy still thinks this is a game, believing that testing less would give them lower "numbers".

https://www.wnky.com/caught-on-camera-colorado-police-handcuff-kids/

Smart cookies these Police officers.  Once you get past the fact they felt the need to have guns drawn and continued to the point of cuffing some young kids coming out of a a family style SUV, you get to the crunch - the stolen vehicle they were seeking was in fact a fucking motorcycle!  If ever there was an example of why Police reform may be needed................

Today I learned, from Donald Trump, that the 1917 pandemic ended WWII. It was killing al the soldiers, apparently.

Brings back memories - I used to live near there and recognised the place before they panned to the street signs.

Is he referring to Spanish Flu, wasn't that 1918-20?

I suppose he would be. It's a convolution of errors packed into one small sentence. There has also not been any pandemic that has ended a war, as far as I'm aware.

He's been at it for a while:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-trumps-washington/trump-and-the-1917-pandemic-that-wasnt

With the VP pick of Harris that probably means Biden would only serve 1 term if he gets in.

They are clearly confident of victory when the VP choice comes from a state they will already win easily

Both Northerners which is pretty rare.  The Civil War still looms .

I read somewhere the other day (think it was NYT) that using a VP from a battleground state/region to garner votes there hasn't actually been a thing since the 60s. They had a list of both Republican and Democrat VP candidates from the 80s, 90s and beyond who were all from "safe" areas for their respective parties.

They usually pick someone to shore up the other side of the party vote - like a Sarah Palin, which worked wonders.  In this case, I think Harris seals a large wedge of the voters who can be a bit, meh, when it comes to turnout - Suburban women and minorities.  Both are majority on Biden's side in polling, but both are less than reliable in actually voting, which will be critical given a Pandemic will over shadow the vote.

It's quite refreshing to see a country that loves it's politicians.  :)

 :D

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53761744

Insane.

https://twitter.com/sarahcpr/status/1271650828785455104

Trump now openly admitting he is attempting to deliberately suppress the postal vote by abusing his power to defund the US Postal Service - i.e. blatant election rigging. When people ask "How did this happen?" it happens in plain sight because people think "It couldn't happen here" and let it slide

https://twitter.com/HKrassenstein/status/1293896714915643392

I'm not sure he knows what he meant with that

I think he's extremely clear: the US Postal service needs c $3bn to enable postal voting to take place; he knows postal voting will allow more disadvantaged voters to vote safely, esp during a pandemic; so he's going to withhold the funds in order to suppress the vote. It's simple outright blatant election rigging

He's also ramping up the 'voting fraud' rhetoric ahead of when he (likely) loses; trying to deligitamise the vote in the eyes of his supporters. It's going to get messy if/when he loses. He's not going to go easy and he has a lot of gun-toting rednecks behind him.

I vaguely recall Trump making excuses in the build-up to the last election.

It's going to be an interesting election. He'll get plenty of votes.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53742684

Sorry, I know there are real people impacted by this, but it is kind of ironic and funny.

Trump's white nationalist (that's Nazi in old-speak) campaign manager and friend of Farage and Cummings, Steve Bannon, has been arrested on suspicion of massive fraud. Is there anyone connected to Trump who isn't either a criminal or a Russian asset (or both)?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/steve-bannon-among-4-arrested-indicted-in-online-fundraising-scheme-doj-announces

Create a Cult, shake down the cult for every penny possible.

I asked the same question elsewhere and apparently there is one campaign manager who to date has not been indicted for anything, although I cannot vouch for Russian ties.


Indeed, sadly many of them who paid cash would probably respond again if a fund was launched to fund his legal fees.

TBF its little different to Farage and Brexit Party Ltd.

Of course, as Yaxley-Lennon ("Tommy Robinson") has demonstrated with his continued milking of his followers, funding his £1m mansion in Beds, his villa in Spain and his ongoing subsidy of various Columbian export enterprises.

Well, there's a reason for that. They're all part of the same network.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/20/politics/bannon-indictment/index.html

It doesn't look good for them - In summary, they funneled around $1.5m out of the "Charity" and moved it around before sending it back to themselves and sent text messages to each other providing an evidence trail!

I suspect, much like Al Capone (hopefully on both sides of the Atlantic) its going to be something financial and small that brings the cards crashing down!

At least on that side of the Atlantic they do get arrested, even if Trump pardons them. Over here, Jenrick's been caught red-handed taking bribes and didn't even apologise, much less get his collar felt. Leaving aside the clear corruption of the PPE contracts and all the cash Gove's handing out to his mates.

This fred in name, just makes me think of the Razorlight tune. When Borrell wrote that simple but effective chorus, he nailed the epitome of world media regarding the USA (and several other countries). Lyrically accurate as fuck.

Horrific video doing the rounds this morning of another black man being murdered in front of his wife and kids. Jesus.

Are you talking about the Wisconsin shooting? The guy's in hospital, in a serious condition.

There is a video of that on the BBC. Why not use Tasers in those situations?

there's no context with the video.

it looks like the police just shot him in the back as he got in the car.

but it's possible he said "I'm going to kill you" before walking back to the car

I'm not victim blaming, and yes you'd think a taser would take him out either way.

If it is like it looks,  it's attempted manslaughter.

They appear to have terrible training all round. About the only thing they do seem proficient at is aiming and shooting.

Although, and I'm not trying to make excuses for them, it's probably harder for them considering there's a good chance the other guy has a gun as well.

Great point Batch, with limited context its very tough to know whether what the police did was justified (although looks highly unlikely)

Haven't seen the video and don't know the context, but how can shooting someone be attempted manslaughter, rather than murder?

If he survives, then it's attempted whatever.

Either way, for it to be murder or attempted murder, they'd have to be able to prove the intention was to kill him - which can be very hard to do.

^^^

yes probably not the legal right term . but murder, at least in this country. is premeditated

I can't believe they went out to kill a black person when their shift started.

was just trying to distinguish between what they did and murder.

you can drop the attempted if he's died, and insert whatever term you like

Yep, I think there are grades of offence as well.  Certainly very few Police Officers get convicted of murder if shooting someone in the line of duty.

It should be noted that in England and Wales, murder involves the intention to kill or cause grievous bodily harm. Not sure if the position is similar in the US.

First-degree murder
Any intentional murder that is willful and premeditated with malice aforethought. Felony murder, a charge that may be filed against a defendant who is involved in a dangerous crime where a death results from the crime,[12] is typically first-degree.[13]

Second-degree murder
Any intentional murder with malice aforethought, but is not premeditated or planned in advance.[14]

Voluntary manslaughter
Sometimes called a crime of passion murder, is any intentional killing that involves no prior intent to kill, and which was committed under such circumstances that would "cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed". Both this and second-degree murder are committed on the spot under a spur-of-the-moment choice, but the two differ in the magnitude of the circumstances surrounding the crime. For example, a bar fight that results in death would ordinarily constitute second-degree murder. If that same bar fight stemmed from a discovery of infidelity, however, it may be voluntary manslaughter.[15]

Involuntary manslaughter
A killing that stems from a lack of intention to cause death but involving an intentional or negligent act leading to death. A drunk driving–related death is typically involuntary manslaughter (see also vehicular homicide, causing death by dangerous driving, gross negligence manslaughter and causing death by criminal negligence for international equivalents). Note that the "unintentional" element here refers to the lack of intent to bring about the death. All three crimes above feature an intent to kill, whereas involuntary manslaughter is "unintentional", because the killer did not intend for a death to result from their intentional actions. If there is a presence of intention it relates only to the intent to cause a violent act which brings about the death, but not an intention to bring about the death itself.[16]

My mistake, I read this morning that he had died. Amazed he didn't to be honest.


If he said anything threatening he should have been face first in the bonnet or tarmac, not followed around the car and allowed to open the door and reach in if that was going to be perceived as a threat. Especially a threat that was deemed to require lethal force.


I completely get this and there have been instances where lack of training or just not being up to the task have played a part, the Michael Brown shooting I think could be one. Shooting someone seven times in the back because you think they may be reaching for a weapon is beyond any such explanation in my opinion.

The bloke they shot recently, paralyzing him (I can't keep up with their names).

They've handcuffed him to his hospital bed. The same hospital bed he's laying in... because he's paralyzed.

'Murica.

fucking hell!

has anyone read anything to say why the officer actress like that?

Also being noted that the white militia guy (sorry bullied teenager according to The Times https://twitter.com/alex_tea/status/1299281555270107137?s=19 ) who shot two protesters dead did so in front of the police and no action taken initially, yet a unarmed black guy walking away towards his car got shot 7 times in the back and paralysed....

At what stage is someone going to have a quiet word with the police and suggest they perhaps exercise a bit of caution, at least for a while?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54007884

They're not. That's the whole point, Trump is doing the exact opposite, telling them to carry on and labelling anyone who thinks ooh, maybe steady up a bit, as far left, antifa etc etc. If anything all the messaging coming from the US govt is not just carry on, but "double down" as that horrid American expression has it

And in other news, I see Trump has been calling for his supporters to (illegally) vote twice to "test the system".

but they could have followed procedures by the book

No idea, way outside my area of expertise, but unless a spit hood is designed to kill the person its being used on, not sure how they can have followed procedures?

From that piece 'The Metropolitan Police says its medically supervised tests have found "spit hoods" present no risk to a suspect's breathing.'

Gets evermore like 1930's Germany...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/14/ice-detainees-hysterectomies-medical-neglect-irwin-georgia

Meanwhile Trump has pulled an election ad calling on patriotic Americans to vote for him to "support our troops" using photos of MiG-29 fighters and troops carring AK-47s. Temporarily forgot he's not supposed to let people know he's a Russian asset.

EDIT: and here it is

(https://static.politico.com/dims4/default/46580b5/2147483647/resize/600x/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2F29%2F57%2Ff565fbc34594a6ec79b4e84f7112%2Fad.JPG)

I always find it odd that in the "West" supporting your armies and government, pictured with soldiers holding guns either side of a flag is accepted as supporting "patriotism", yet when that's done in the "East"... :hmmm:

There's a meme for this somewhere.

Its much the same as the grey area when 'freedom fighters' become 'terrorists'.

Yes, also the long term perception-led-by-government (and institution) that we have always been on the "good" side. When really, we've been on the "bad" side. It's more in very recent times, because of WWII that we were seen as the lesser of two evils.

I still hold the belief that the UK has only got involved in things where we hold vested interests (fuels mostly) or want to retain our control. We, along with several other countries really are a just a big bunch of bullying fuckers. Except the UK is being rather childish about it all now and they're trying to take their ball home with them.

I saw this linked an I thought... 'Nah'

But I checked, and, yeah. It is genuine.

(https://i.imgur.com/2zzPeJZ.png)

WTAF?

Nuff said

https://youtu.be/r8pnec4Hxps

What is his "executing babies after birth" bit all about. Is Trump telling us that he (Trump) is an  anti-vaxer? Because that would answer a lot regarding his fuckwittery!

Mind he supports one injection but that was Dettol so I'm disregarding it as pro-vaccination.

He means it literally.

He's appealing to the 'pro-lifer' sect (Which is a rather large sect)

Madness, I get the pro-lifer element but surely (we live in an incredibly wonky and wanky world currently) no one is stupid enough to believe that?! It's like a game to see which world leader can say the most absurd thing and still get away with it.

This week on 300: A Spartan Story, Delusional Donald is convinced the Virginia Governor is throwing babies into the death pit of Perori.  ::)

The Breonna Taylor case.

Of the 3 coppers involved, only one has been charged. he was charged with wanton endagerment, because his shots put her neighbours in danger.

None have been laid with a single charge over the death of Breonna Taylor herself. Nada.

Murica'.

It'll be kicking off again tonight no doubt.

while I don't agree with it, could it have been part of the settlement with the family that those charges were dropped.

send unlikely/wrong

I think there were some real problems with being able to make anything stick against the Coppers given the authority on which they were acting at that time.  The settlement seems to be significant, including reforms, so maybe they've been able to leverage this ahead of the known lack of charging to get laws changed.  The individual and their family don't really get Justice, but they get to make real change - lets hope so.

On a similar vein I don't think any copper was ever charged in relation to the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes, in fact the commander of the botched operation is now in charge of the Met.

Donny's Taxes have been released by the NY Times. He paid $750 dollars in Income Tax in 2016 and 2017.

The guy is shadier than the middle of the amazon rain forest.

Its how they finally got Al Capone, fingers crossed.

What's actually more interesting is how much debt he is in. He's personally liable for over $1bn of debt, most of it secured against a failing property empire and significant amounts of it falling due in the next couple of years. Winning the next election is an existential threat for him - he's very likely to end up bankrupt and in jail if he loses. Not so much a brilliant billionaire businessman, as a conman, a fraud and a thief.

https://twitter.com/DanAlexander21/status/1310342791336284160

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1310584937356103686?s=20

What has always bugged me is why do centralist/left wing parties/groups  seem completely unable to use such technological systems as well as the right, be it Trump, Brexit or the Tories?

This is superb: Trump's favourite white supremacist street gang, the Proud Boys, got trolled to shit by gay twitter because, well, Proud Boys. So instead of standing up for themselves and being proud of being Proud Boys, they've decided to change their name. To "Leathermen" :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

https://twitter.com/Ezra_Nola/status/1313805754219012097

Turns out sexuality mirrors politics - you can be so macho you tip all the way round to camp again.

I really wish it were true. Alas, it is not. It was created by a satirical website simlar to the onion.

https://www.thebeaverton.com/2020/10/as-gay-twitter-reclaims-proudboys-hashtag-proud-boys-change-name-to-leather-men/

I hate myself for looking it up now. Sorry.

Thought it might be, but it was too good to spoil by looking it up to check #TheresAlwaysOneWhoHasToSpoilItForEveryone.

My point stands.

And look what happens when the President of the US encourages heavily armed gunmen to "Liberate" their state from the governor. Turns out encouraging armed militias to insurrection makes them plot acts of terrorism, including the kidnap and murder of the governor and possibly other hostages. Who could have thought it?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/six-people-charged-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer

You can't even say it's dog whistles with trump.

Dog whistles are subtle, Trump just comes right out with it.

I have an elderly, Trump-supporting relative over there.  His Facebook feed is quite something.  Full of God-fearing calls to prayer, and guns.  Like millions of others in the US, he sees no contradiction.

A post the other day was one of the best...a list of reasons why any 'sane' voter would run a mile from the Democrats.  And top of the list?  They kill babies.  I swear I'm not making this up.  The ignorance & complete lack of sophistication is chilling.

My mum and stepdad have been in the States for a while now and sadly these are exactly the posts I see from them on the very rare times I venture onto FB. I guess the brainwashing from Fox News and weird bible bashers in Florida is difficult to escape from.

The Fox News comments section on FB is something to behold.

Well brace yourselves guys because we're on the same trajectory, just about 3 years behind them.

Who is going to win the Election then folks?

Biden is a shade under 1/2 at the bookies but we know what happened 4 years ago.

Either way, it appears that unrest is likely with many shops being boarded up. What a horribly divided place.

Big head will get re-elected😡

It got me thinking is this the weakest government over the last 40/50 years :hmmm:

I'm thinking this as well unfortunately. That said, I would really really really love to see his face if he loses. He has already said they are going to be talking to lawyers after the election so he's got a ready made excuse if the worst was to happen for him.

I think most of the world would too😁

he'll lose, then call foul/rigged and take it to the courts is my guess.

certainly not a certainty mind

If the popular vote got the President elected I'd say Biden wins this at a canter. But its not a given as 4 years ago proved. I still think Biden wins, but I can't see it being anything but close

Biden will win - some interesting legal wrangles will follow.

The polls weren’t wrong last time, they had Hilary ahead nationally and that proved right in the National vote.  Trump won by a statically fluke of about 70,000 odd votes across 3 swing states.

State pollsters underestimated a certain niche working class demographic in these states, adjustments were made and polling was bang on in the 2018 mid terms.

Anyway that’s a long winded way of saying the polls won’t be far off this time so it’s a relatively comfortable Biden victory for me Clive.

Even if Biden does win, it will take a long time, if ever, to undo the damage that Trump and the far right of the Republican party have done to American politics. Much of that damage pre-dates Trump, you can trace it back to Newt Gingrich, the Tea Party etc, Trump was just a useful figurehead to build a coalition between the Republican far right and the seriously unhinged neo-Nazis, militias etc. The armed lunatics, fascist street gangs and conspiracy theorists that form his base will not simply shrug their shoulders and accept a democratic defeat at the polls. The genie of American fascism is not going back in the bottle any time soon, and the damage to American democracy may well be permanent.

I think it's most likely Biden will win.  Certainly the Trump period has shocked enough Democrats into noticing they had completely abandoned their core voters of old - I am not sure to what extent yet, but Biden being nominated is the first reaction to that.  Unlike the Labour Party with it's Corbyn approach, they swiftly avoided being see as pandering to the extreme of their party.  Biden has also picked-up some of the language used by Bannon, which was the pre cursor to Trump - basically they got someone in who had name recognition and chucked a few policy ideas his way.  Things like Buy American have taken off a bit.

The long term direction is hard to judge.  Healthcare has moved a lot, in a short space of time, which stuns me given how people react to me when discussing the NHS just a couple of years ago.  Not sure they are all the way there yet, but I reckon a Majority in all three Houses will enable them to push a much more radical (for them) agenda on that front.

I can see the Trade stuff lingering post Trump - I don't think any unravelling of the tariff's will go down well in the Mid West & Rust Belt areas which Biden will need to keep onside.

Assuming Trump loses, the Republican Party is going to be fun to watch for a while - lord knows which direction they go.  I don't think the Tea Party would really have wanted Trump, but he gave them a way to get some of their ideas to the forefront.  If he loses badly, they may lose a lot of their steam in the Party.

Trump was quite fortunate last time and there's a greater gap in the polls now. Biden to win I reckon, followed by a shed load of shithousery from Trump and the rest of them. I can't see him going quietly.

candidates are 74 and 77 - with an average life expectancy of 78 I'm not sure USA will get a full term :(

intended to be a seriously point

Wednesday is going to be fun, whoever wins.

Which is why both VP's have been important picks.  Pence brings the crazy Church goers to the table - they vote knowing Trump being banished or dead gives them him.

Harris being picked was someone who would keep the left of the party in lock step without being too radical to scare off the middle of the road swing voters.  It's a clever choice that meant they didn't have the same issues they had with Clinton - you either loved or hate her and her running mate was an unknown.

Point taken, but the life expectancy of a 74 year old or a 77 year old is considerably more than 78 (which averages in everyone who died younger than that). Odds are that both Biden and Trump will still be with us in 2024.

The interesting side story is the Senate as it could easily swing back to the Dems, the other other is already comfortably theirs.  As you say if you get your hands on all 3 houses it makes life so much easier to get your polices implemented


I think we are only seeing Biden run because of his general popularity and role as elder party statemans.  He is essentially running as a favour to the party in order to get Trump out.  Should he win i’d expect him to only serve one term and then let Harris have a run next time out

it's probably just me, but not seen much attention on the VP role here. I could have named pence, but not Harris!

actually that's not true, I do remember her getting the nod.

I guess my attentions have been more covid centric

Definitely.  Biden would only ever be a one term President.  There's no way even the US electorate would seriously consider backing an 82 year old for another 4 year term in 2024.

They need to disband the Electoral College system.  It's a relic of a bygone age.

The same could be said of our system too but I guess this is not the UK Politics fred.

I do say the same, because it is (but you are right, this not the thread for it).

blimey, it's squeeky bum time, and all on the rust belt. may not know until tomorrow. or later

FFS Murica

I know...looked like Biden was going to piss it at one point as well...

Trumps going to win isnt he

just announced Trumps going to supreme court to get some votes discounted

I guess it relates to postal votes?

I don't think so.

Biden's edging it at the moment, but there's still a lot of ballots to be counted where it's tight so far. Those ballots will mostly be dem voters.

Still a bad reflection on America that it's this close, though.

Trumps calling wins in states where the voting isn't counting yet.

Setting it up nicely for him to say later that they cheated.

Trump now claiming he's going to tell the courts to stop the vote now.

(Even though he's currently behind)

He’s such a prick.

I mean, it's not considered political analysis but it is about all you can say at this point. It says something about how partisan America has got when an election can be this close when one candidate is this bad. Ugh. Not what I needed to wake up to this morning when out of coffee.

I have a horrible feeling you may be right  :(

No. But he may get close enough to steal it via a rigged court. This is why he rushed through the appointment of his Supreme Court pick.

But the fact that he is that close to be able to attempt that is a permanent stain on America's moral character. We now know a substantial proportion of the US electorate are open fascists.

Time to break out the blimp  :)

Once, just once it would be great if the polling margin of error went the nice way.

Biden wins Arizona. Tha gap is widening.

not yet confirmed on UK charts

According to AP

The Rock should run next time...

Looking like Biden's not done enough to win the Senate. So even if he does win the Presidency and manage to avoid Trump stealing it, he's going to struggle to get much done. An already weak and uninspiring candidate turned into a lame-duck president doesn't bode well for avoiding a Donald Jr resurgence in 4 years' time. Fuck 2020.

As long as Trump is out! Let’s not worry about Jr Twat just yet

Think you're underestimating how much damage a hostile Senate can do. This isn't a normal election, the US is teetering on the brink of outright fascism, the Democrats need to do enough over the next four years to substantially roll that tide back and start to reset US politics to the usual battle between the Conservative right and centre/centre-right. Without the Senate, that's going to be very difficult, Biden's term (if he wins) could be completely hobbled from the outset by both a perception that he didn't really win (which Trump has been laying the ground for for months and is now staking out the battle for that) and a perception that he is weak and ineffective if the Republicans can use the Senate to block him at every term. This isn't looking good

Not looking good for Biden now.

Fuck!

What have I missed. I mean it looks pretty tight. but has he lost something he should have won>

I was looking at the gap in some of the key states which seemed unattainable, but maybe absentee ballots will pull it closer.

Don't listen to me. I don't really know what I'm talking about.

No, I had the same thought too.

Then the news said there were a few states that had mainly counted rural (Trump) but not urban votes - of which there are more. Plus the postals not being done in others, largely Biden ...

Seems unassailable gaps to me, but like you I know nothing so defer to the news "experts".

The only hope I have they are right is the fact that Trump is talking legal action - so must be worried. Maybe.

More of the absentee ballots are being counted now and are, apparently, swinging the percentages significantly.

Fingers crossed and all that.

Have you thought about running to become President? You’d be perfect.

Fingers crossed.

Not flipping Ohio and Florida not a good sign though

Your scarring me Flash, I’m looking at you to keep me updated and now you say you can’t be trusted either! Fake news man

Wisconsin just flipped to biden by 0.3% (10 votes) - counting is ongoing...

The Cities are going to play a big part. Milwaukee is flipping Wisconsin and Atlanta could have a big part to play in Georgia.

I still think Trump may hold on but it could be very very tight!

This highlights the absurdity of the Electoral College.  It's like FPTP (which I also hate) on steroids.

Yup it's almost like we clearly need some kind of 'alternative voting system'... oh wait...  :doh:

It's definitely going to be tight whichever way it goes... that's the one certainty in all of this....

Trying not to get too hopeful but things seem to be shifting Bidenwards in the uncalled states. Big margin in the popular vote, narrow margin in the key states seems likeliest now.

In a way, this election has gone much more to predictions than originally thought- election day vote overwhelmingly Trumpian, later counted mail-ins making up the difference but slow counting and complex rules meaning key states won't declare for days, with Trump likely to play the prick in the meantime. Definitely a few polling misses (Florida) but seems like it might end up within the margin of error. Would be nice if that margin went the right way one day though...

That said, living through that script is still stressful as anything.

Definitely swinging more towards Biden's favour now.

Fingers still crossed.

2/7 with Bet365. And the bookies never get it wrong, do they??

Nice to see our own toytown fascist Farage on TV last night and this morning amplifying Trump's lies. Hope people remember this when he starts revving up his latest cash cow

Most won't care. They rarely do nowadays.

If results stay as they are currently - Biden wins. And things are only likely to move more in his favour.

Still not uncrossing those fingers, though.

Betfair now have Biden at 1/6, and Trump at 4/1.  They're going to be better informed than me, but I'm finding it difficult to be confident they're right.

I'm confident.

Biden has already taken the lead. There's (almost) only absentee votes left to count and these are extremely likely to be in Biden's favour.

Odds on Biden seeing through a full term if he does get in must be evens at best, a 78 year old starting a first term as president is a bit ridiculous.

Statistically, a 78 yr old has a good chance of living another 4 yrs.  Whether he has the stamina/fight to hold office for the period is another matter.

He's just a really uninspiring candidate and if he doesn't win the senate and can't get anything easily is he really going to have the drive and energy to push things. Much like us in the last few elections they have piss poor options to choose from.

Trumpy on Twitter complaining that random votes have 'magically' appeared after he was leading.

Trying to kick up a "voter fraud" storm before the court case

He talks as much shit as Deontay Wilder :crash:

Voter suppression. Learn something new every day.

Didn't realise how widespread it is. In democracies everywhere.

Looks increasingly likely Biden has won, Pennsylvania may still switch his way when all the votes are counted and Georgia may get very close (which is very surprising).

Biden will probably win by 4m+ Votes Nationally - California, Washington & Oregan are the vast majority of uncounted votes.

I've been updating myself today based on this:

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=us+election&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

If Biden winds up winning Wisconsin and Michigan, as he currently is, then according to this he ends up with the 270 that gets him the win, Trump ending up on 267. That's assuming things finish as they stand and I've not cocked up the math, which is extremely possible

Not sure if this has been posted yet: Kanye West has conceded.

You have missed one, probably Maine's other Congressional District vote.

I re-did the maths after posting, realised I was 1 out. Is the Maine Conditional District vote a bonus point? Was not aware of its existence

Maine splits votes, like Nebraska - so awards votes for the State, then a vote for a specific area.  It's all very 1700's.

My City decided this morning was a good day to do a Tornado Warning test - given our location vs. filming for The Walking Dead, the Presidential vote and Covid, it could very well be the end of times siren.

You can't buy class.  It's embarrassing.

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1324032541544927233

What idiots  :D

Trump's presidency may be on it's way out but the poison he has injected into American politics isn't. The Republicans will likely remain as a far-right National Populist party, the fascist street gangs Trump has empowerted and encouraged will not be going back into their bunkers, the QAnon conspiracy nutters will only get more convinced of their delusions, the armed militias and far right terrorists will only become more determined to overthrow what they will see as an illegitimate govt by violence.

Meanwhile Biden will be a lame duck President hampered and frustrated at every turn by a Republican senate determined to wreck any chance he has of passing any of his legislative programme. And the far right/Russian bots will only ramp up their Fake News/Alt Truth propaganda so that half the US public won't know what's true any more. After four years of stasis in govt, violence, bile and conspiracy on the streets, the conditions will be pefect for the next National Populist (fascist in old money) to step up to the plate promising to Make America Great Again.

Sorry, but this shit isn't going to die with Trump, if anything it's likely to get worse.

And this is all assuming he doesn't manage to steal it in the courts he's handily rigged with a right wing majority just weeks before the election.

Deleted my original post as, on reflection, it felt a bit premature with all the legal nonsense that's starting to kick off.  And then you replied to it.  : )

Anyway, I stand by the sentiment.  Not pretending that Biden will be anything other than a one term lame duck.  But even that has to be preferable to the carnage that 4 more years of Trump would involve.  At the very least, Biden would allow a pause.  I'll take that right now.

Oh hell yeah. Steven Miller, Trump's openly white supremacist adviser on immigration, has promised that Trump would get "really radical" if he got a second term. It would make the last 4 years look like a picnic, separating kids from their parents would be just the start.

On a more optimistic note, not sure how much basis this has, but Florida may come back into play due to the Trump appointed head of the US Postal Service defying court orders on using the postal system for quite blatant vote rigging

https://twitter.com/ericgarland/status/1323810643107962880

#IHaveWonPennsylvania is quite fun on twitter right now

Not sure if been posted already but this is excellent. If you happen to be in New York (small model on the, TEF likely) then go take a look  :D

https://www.timeout.com/newyork/news/a-massive-mural-featuring-20-000-of-trumps-lies-has-been-installed-in-soho-102920

I think the Senate won't be as much of a pain in the arse as you've written here.  Several Republican Senators are likely to straddle the Socially Liberal and Fiscally Conservative line.  So they might get some stuff done around Healthcare, Infrastructure etc, but they won't get their Tax stuff done.

I reckon Biden seals Arizona (87% counted) and Wisco (nearly finished 99%) but also snatches Georgia (95% but just 40k seperate them: Trump Leads) putting him on an untouchable 280.

Trump grabs Nevada (87% but only 8k separating: Biden Leads) by the pussy, molests Pennsylvania (88% counted), abuses North Carolina (95%) and Makes Alaska Great Again but it isn't enough and sees him finish on 258.

Georgia could be the big decider looking at the counting so far. The danger (if you don't want another Trump Term) is that if those results stayed the same, yet Trump retained Georgia this would see Biden on 264 and Trump retain power on 274.

As others have stated though, regardless of outcome, Cheeto will either not go quietly or will (if he wins) claim it to be the greatest victory ever in the history of US Politics  :cry:

I hope you're right; their track record over the past 4 years isn't encouraging

Biden had a chance in Nevada if he loses Georgia. Georgia is a bonus shot.

Biden must be fairly confident given his 'believe we have the votes' speech

Aren't most of the remaining votes in Georgia mail in ballots in and around Atlanta? Surely that's a shoe-in for the Democrats.

I was watching on CNN this morning and it sounds like Pennsylvania have made a right mess of it, sending wrong ballots and then making a mess of sending the replacement ones or something. I'm sure Trump will latch onto that, hopefully that state won't make a difference.

Kind regards,

Gareth

Bob's not called Bob. fake news

Who's Gareth?

Bob. Or his orange

haha!!

I started to post and half way through got an email which I replied to. Seemingly I've come back and typed the Kind regards schtum on here!

I think I might finally be going cuckoo!

Ok then...  :eekout:

https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1324175651515949056

 :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick: :suicide:

Subjected myself to 30 minutes of Fox News last night. Pretty much what you would expect and the only thing of real interest is that they played an XTC song over the start of the ad break. At least some of Murdoch's filthy lucre is making its way to Wiltshire.

I'm surprised Fox have called votes for Biden that CNN haven't yet.

I guess Trump isn't going on 'Fox and friends' any time soon

I'm Gareth   :)

no I'm Gareth, and so is my wife

God what have I started!!

 :crash:

Was it Mayor of Simpleton by any chance?

To be honest, I don't remember but it certainly would have been appropriate. Do Fox do irony?

Apparently Trump has called Murdoch personally to have a rant about this and demand a retraction, Murdoch ignored him which possibly says as much as many of the poll projections.

Is this like calling your teacher Mum at school? :D

Edit: Apparently it was Life Begins at The Hop, on Fox News, randomly enough.

Senses Working Overtime and XTC mentioned several times by Chris Cuomo on CNN also.

Although Mayor Of Simpleton or President Kill Again would've been more apt :)

Hush up, FakeBob. First Richie Wellens, now this. I will never trust again

Was listening to 5Live last night whilst driving at work, they had a talk show host from Wisconsin on, he mentioned he was born in England, the presenter asked where and he said Swindon. His mum was from Oxford, his dad US Air Force, so likely at Fairford. They had a little chat about the Magic Roundabout too :D

Pennsylvania is going to end-up being a 100k vote margin to Biden, if not more.  There are close to 700k votes to count with the vast majority in Phillie, which will go 80/20 to Biden.  I'm almost of the belief they are holding them back to wind-up Trump given his recent comments about the City, which would be fun.

Georgia could even sneak over the line for Biden which is pretty astonishing.  I live just on the edge of Metro Atlanta and we went 65% to Trump.  It's amazing how some of the population Centers are so different in cultural make-up to their near neighbours.  Fortunately I live on the new bit of Town, which is more 50/50.

Lunatic fringe you say.....

He never was, he's Bob's Orange. I suppose be may also be called Bob, too.

So he is an Orange who belongs to Bob?  Should have gone green and wrinkly by now.

 :)

https://youtu.be/G1QywDPkDjg

This is why I think Biden will snatch Georgia. Down to about 19k votes now, so Biden has halved that 40k deficit. I think some news outlets have been inventively calling it the "Prosciutto slither" or something  :)

Would be massive for Georgia to go Democrat. Those pesky actors moving to Atlanta and Macon.

Kind regards,
Kev  :soapy tit wank:

Oooh, Grauniad suggesting the two Georgia Senate races may need to be re-run in Jan (apparently if no candidate secures more than 50% of the vote, it goes to a run-off) which may put the Senate back up for grabs as well. Unlikely the Dems would win those run-offs apparently but who knows in these slightly odd times?

Possibly more chance the Dems may win those run-offs if Biden snatches Georgia beforehand?!

I'd be very surprised if Purdue didn't win the run off, the other one with Loeffler could be fun though.  She went hard right to fend off the other Republican, so she may struggle to pick-up all the Republican voters.  The big question is what the turnout looks like in January given the current fun.

Oh, and we are down to 13.5k vote difference now, with about 40k left to go.  The process here is fun to watch - if ever there was a perfect way to vote Trump out, beyond an utter landslide, a slow painful end is probably a good choice.

I don't know. the legal action makes me nervous

Most of the legal action has been pretty frivolous for now.  The Courts have shown little willingness to undo votes in the past - essentially, even if the rules are deemed a bit dodgy, if the voters voted with those rules in place, they allow the votes to count.  So far it has been stupid stuff like complaining they haven't had enough vote watchers in place - that won't change a vote unless they have evidence of errors/fraud, neither of which have reared their head thus far.

It's fantastic seeing the slow but steady Georgia switch. Biden might not even need his own State or even Nevada to win.

Isn’t his state Delaware? They’ve already declared

Pennsylvania is his

He’s politically from Delaware but born and brought up in Pennsylvania

Yeah but sharpies!!!!

Didn’t the Supreme Court already reject a few law suits, pre voting day, that the Republicans brought to them?

As you say it all seems a bit frivolous so far, don’t think the law suits have much legs in them

Any legal action suggesting any fraud could surely be countered by the Biden camp suggesting that, as the states Trump has issue with were republican run at the time they were asked by Trump to not count postal ballots early so he can then claim that votes counted after polling has closed should not be included?

Much more feasible than voter fraud on the kind of scale we're taking about here.

They've had one thrown out in Michigan and in Georgia already for basically having no merit and making ridiculous allegations with no evidence to back it up. But that's not the point, they know damn well the legal actions have no chance of success, it's about creating the narrative that Trump didn't lose, it was stolen from him. Partly to inflame "the base", but mainly because Trump just can't stand losing.

(https://scontent-lhr8-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s600x600/123919314_10164322468280142_3254548852443967752_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=ovtoZuuXzGUAX8Getr4&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-1.xx&tp=7&oh=64874150d470b40c4595861ce54b859f&oe=5FC8536C)

Haha, if you have seen the video from Nevada

Nice find :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

1...ahaaaa...

Can we assume that Trump had the big leads on the walk-in votes because there was some fiddling going on?

He's currently rambling.

I'm listening now too, the waffle coming out of his mouth is staggering. I'm pretty sure he just said 'irregularries', reminded me of this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UE9BXkQ-SRc

He flat out lied about Georgia's vote being run by democrats and being fraudulent, the governor of Georgia is republican, and his friend, one of the pundits on Sky News worked for him for 17 years and was a staffer in the White House for him, she slated his blabberings.   

He should be moved at once to the top of the cunts list.

This is fucking fantastic. I think RobT (or was it PaulD) was right in that Pennsylvania has held back a chunk of their Philly results just to rub salt into the cunt.

I'm quite glad I predicted the flippening in Georgia (was talking about it a good while back. It is down to less than 2k votes.

It looks as though Biden will take his home State and Georgia as well as Arizona (thanks Phoenix & Tucson voters) if that's the case Biden will end up on 300 (or 306 with Nevada).

I still think Trump will scrape Nevada in the polar to Biden snatching Georgia. But it won't matter. The Oompa Loompa can cry all he likes. So long as it's into the rivers of Flint. MI. Then again they would rather have clean water than his dirty tears.

Trump might come to the UK.

I wonder if he wants to buy a "soccer" club.

I would prefer a Trump Tower to a Power Tower.

Fixed it for you

Meanwhile, Johnson and Farage's mate Steve Bannon calls for the beheading of US officials and sticking their heads on pikes, ISIS style. Let's dispense with the "alt right" euphemism bullshit, these people are open fascists.

https://twitter.com/FrankFigliuzzi1/status/1324485819042705408

Biden takes the lead in Georgia.

Not sure whether it was deliberate or not (I suspect not as I doubt he is that bright or well read) but Donald Trump Jr tweeted about the need for Trump "to go to total war". The use of that phrase sends a shiver the spine of Germans and anyone who has studied Nazi history in detail. Goebbels used the phrase in his Sportpalast speech in 1943.

A little bit of a concern here is that there are so many scroats in the Trump family so that when Donny does fuck off, he's going to use his sons to carry on the work of the 'greatest president America has ever seen'.

All of this vote fraud and cheating rhetoric will be used as a stick to beat Biden/Harris when Trump jr then runs in 2024.

His speech last night apparently saw some of his more dangerous supporters rocking up outside voting poll count buildings in Georgia, heavily armed. Generally they just stand there looking goofy but it just takes one small event and there is a tragedy with deaths.

Kind regards,

Bob O

Indeed FakeBob, I've been saying this for some time. And even if it's not his direct hellspawn, the American Fascist Movement (because that is what it is) will find a new figurehead. The genie is not going back in the bottle and the danger is that next time they come back with someone who is actually basically competent. While it looks like Biden is now going to win, and that's great, the idea that over 40% of the US electorate has looked at the the open white supremacism, the authoritarian power grabs, the blatant corruption, the abuse of power, the assault on the fundamentals of democracy of the past 4 years and gone "Yep, I like the look of that, let's have some more of that" is not one that any of us should find comforting.

Much like COVID, if the US doesn't use the next 4 years to prepare for the second wave of this virus it will come back in much more deadly and virulent form

All my fears summed up perfectly in one post...and there I was, thinking a high turnout would see Trump get crushed... unbelievable...

peachy!

Not all of them.

Some of them think "lower taxes" and in some cases their life was eaier under Trump - when you've got a choice between easier life but evil, and harder life and lackluster ... you know whuman nature..

If only we had any TV outlets who would be this straight...

https://twitter.com/thenewsoncnbc/status/1324503704930832388?s=20

Some of them looked at their bank balance (pre Covid) and the economic/job situation had been improving under him, although due in a part to polices under Barry starting to come to fruition

Human nature, indeed not just an American thing, look after yourself first

indeed

Sorry yes, you are of course right. Plus for example Cuban exiles in Florida who swallowed the Republican propaganda that Democracts would enact "socialism" so that the US would instantly become like Cuba. Nonetheless, all these people were if not enthusiastic about the blatant assaults on democracy, the corruption, the white supremacism etc they were at the very least prepared to discount all the shit and still vote for it. I'd guess there were probably people who voted for Hitler who thought he was a bit strong on the Jewish stuff but liked the look of his economic policies.

The loser of the Georgia race can request a recount if the winning margin is less than .5%, and it currently is, so Biden needs to increase his margin if that's to be avoided.

BBC aren't reporting that Biden has already won Arizona but other news outlets are, if he indeed has taken Arizona and ends up taking Georgia too that means the race is over. Nevada has also yet to be called but is looking likely to go to Biden, and Pennsylvania might still flip over to him too. I don't see any way Trump can win this now.

And while we and indeed most decent people are reacting to Trump's behaviour and meltdown with a kind of fascinated horror, a govt minister said on Sky news this morning he was a "fine candidate", and Tory MPs are tweeting this kind of shit

https://twitter.com/AndrewRosindell/status/1323824097973964800

https://twitter.com/andreajenkyns/status/1323692505167253505

https://twitter.com/Mike_Fabricant/status/1324646348713578497

You can tell a lot about what people really think by the sides they pick.

I don't think it's possible for Biden to get over 5% margin now.

0.5%

0.5 Batcheroo

doh! I missed the . it's very small on this screen!

I should have realised.

Fox News called Arizona for Biden, but BBC won't. Being more pro-Trump than Fox News is a new record.

TBF the BBC are following CBS on calling states, they're not making the calls themselves and CBS are being more cautious than CNN and Fox. There are still sufficient votes in play for Trump to win Arizona, Fox and some other networks are called it for Biden on the assumption that the remaining ballots were likely to be overwhelmingly Democrat but it's actually been tighter than many expected in those remaining ballots.

Started watching Fox News since Wednesday and have just seen an ad for a pill to ward off Parkinson's Disease.

Apparently, the signs of early onset are hallucinations, delusion and confusion. I think I have a customer for them.

Biden odds -  1/16 on.

Did the "out of State" and dead people in Nevada all vote for Biden?

Sorry for all the posts - blame lockdown.

Can I just say that I actually prefer Trump's "YMCA" dance, to the actual one that has existed for decades.

Biden now leads in Pennsylvania. Only 5000 ahead, not sure where the rest that remain are coming from. Hopefully postal

Georgia < 1000 votes in it!

I expect that'll be close enough to trigger a recount too, which is OK as its procedure rather than Trump skullduggery

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1324558603961991169.html

Decision Desk HQ has called Pennsylvania and the race for Biden. The expectation seems to be that the final Pennsylvania margin will be beyond the recount threshold. Networks seem to be holding off for now but we're nearly there.

Most of the votes in PA are in Philly and Pitt and they are mail in, so will be 80% plus for Biden, which is why all it would have taken is for him to get the lead for it to be called.

I doth my cap to Georgia, I did not think it would flip this soon.  Fastest growing place in the USA I think, metro Atlanta.  One of the problems the North has had in moving more Republican, because a lot of them come from there.

Being reported that the FAA has put the residence of Joe Biden under a temporary flight restriction and his secret service detail has been increased, which is traditionally done for candidates when they become President Elect.

If this hasn't been posted earlier, this is well worth a look.

https://youtu.be/TeSiJmLoJd0

Can't wait to see Donny's orange face!!  :clap:

Thank fuck for that. Now the FBI can arrest him and start proceedings for corruption, treason, fraud, inciting terrorism and sedition

Fuck that, if everyone just stops talking about him and keeps him out of the press, he'll go under financially and emotionally.

"Trump TV" could be a thing...

He hasn't tweeted all day, I'm beginning to wonder if he's gone to the potting shed, with a revolver.

Just watched it...absolutely fantastic  :clap:

I think they will be at the front (or possibly rear as its suggested many local cases, in New York for instance, are already complete and ready for serving when the first opportunity arises) of a rather long queue.

Yeah and sadly there will be millions of people glued to it and the likely propaganda it will spew out.

Its being suggested that his legal team are keeping him away in case he says anything really stupid to further prejudice any attempts at legals, albeit in this context CNN were quoting insiders using the word unhinged to describe how he was reacting yesterday!

It could, although he may struggle for providers to actually schedule it - given he's called most of the Cable providers out and had a go at tech, thus ruling out most streaming providers.  Hopefully he'll just go further and further insane watching himself on TV.

It already is. It's called Fox

Yeah see what you mean but I was kind of hoping that the criminal investigations would get his revolting family jailed too.

I'm not sure that's going to be true going forward. He seems very cross over the calling of Arizona.

Fox will soon get over him and find a new Conservative Personality to latch onto.  The worry is whether or not the Republicans decide to keep hammering away at the same approach in the next 4 years.  It's entirely possible one of the kids could take the mantle.

AP now saying the Biden lead in Georgia is 1000 votes. Eeek

Murdoch's response suggests that Fox consider him to be a busted flush.

The margin of victory for either of them in Georgia is now guaranteed to be so small that a recount is inevitable. Which means if the Democrats have cheated as Trump will no doubt suggest, they'll have done it so badly that even Major Ingram would be ashamed. Not a glowing endorsement of a group of people that Trump would have us believe are currently pulling off what would be the biggest conspiracy of all time

From the BBC;

Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensberger has just announced that the state's presidential contest will go to a recount.

He says that 4,169 votes remain to be counted, and that some 8,000 military absentee ballots are still in the mail and will only be counted if they arrive by the end of the day.

"Right now Georgia remains too close to call," he says, adding: "With a margin that small there will be a recount in Georgia."

"Interest in our election obviously goes far beyond Georgia's borders. The final tally in Georgia at this point has huge implications for the entire country."

"We are looking at a margin less than a large high school," Raffensberger's aide Gabriel Sterling added after the Republican official left without taking questions.

Sterling, who oversees voting for the state, added that the reason for the recount is due to how close the race is, and that they have not seen "any widespread irregularities" that would indicate foul play.

Pro trump protestors dancing to 'killing in the name of'.

It's almost as though they're not very bright.

every morning I wake up. every morning... no result..

what's taking so long. I get Georgia, it is close, recount required.

Are the Nevada counters getting a free lap dance with every vote or something.

is Pennsylvania  using carrier pigeon?

Pennsylvania are waiting on 40,000 military votes to arrive and are still counting the mail in votes.  The mayor of Philadelphia did tell Trump to put on his big boy pants on TV yesterday so I'm happy with the job they're doing :)

I don't think Trump owns any "big boy pants" TBF and if he did then they would be around his ankles courtesy of Stormy Daniels!

does the military vote normally lean one way or the other?

I'm not sure traditionally, but I believe Trump pissed off a lot of military personal with his attacks on the likes of John McCain, who was a POW in Vietnam

Ha!

It's done. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54836636)

Fuck you, Trump.  Good riddance.

Just made the discovery that Joe Biden's middle name is Robinette.  Astonishing.

Wow :eek:

You're fired!

At least there’s one thing to be cheerful about today.

It's going to be interesting to see how 'Britain Trump' responds.  That's his Brexit strategy up in smoke.  (I'll be generous and credit him with having a strategy.)

wooot wooot. let the 🍺🍺🍷🍷 flow

We will never forget you Ronald Trump.

He's not going to go quietly, is he? I expect him to repeat the unfounded fraud allegations over and over again while providing no evidence. Unfortunately the bigger the lie, the more they'll believe it

I really hope he tries to stay in the WH until it legally becomes Biden's house and the President's Security can throw him out in his pants before he's had his hair done into the middle of BLM Square.

I also really hope that if Trump actually goes to the Inauguration that Biden takes a knee for the anthem and as an added bonus turns and gives him the finger.

There can be no more fitting epitaph for the cocktail of lies and incompetence that characterised Trump's reign than their booking their "fight back" press conference at the Four Seasons and then refusing to admit it was a mistake when instead of booking the Four Seasons Hotel they ended up giving their press conference in the car park of the Four Seasons Landscaping Company between a "dildo shop and a crematorium". In fact those two bookends are themselves fitting symbols of his reign

https://twitter.com/ZackBornstein/status/1325274318218035201

:D ... couldn't make it up  :doh:

That is fucking amazing.  It's not just a Dildo shop, it has peep holes!  Guiliani probably booked the site as it was near his current location.

Why did Larry David write that bit?

This is exactly the kind of stupid that whoever obtains the Presidency after Biden, has got to try and eradicate.

Hopefully it will be Harris or Michelle (either way round). America just needs a decent President. I think that comes in the form of Biden somewhat stopping the rot and then I genuinely believe they need a woman to sort this shit out.

Ha ha that's brilliant. It's not quite "Brilliant legal team comprised of geniuses that are going to overturn the results of the election accidentally holds press conference in landscaping company car park" brilliant, but it's on the spectrum.

Looking at that guys Twitter, it looks like its satirical.

I mean I thought that about Trump's twitter but apparently he's deadly serious. I still wouldn't be unduly surprised for him to do a big reveal on his final day in office that the last 4 years have just been a giant satirical piece of performance comedy. Trump is the new Borat.

 :clap:

You know I wasn't talking about the big fella, you cheeky monkey but well played sir!

I saw he is now calling the election fraud a 'hoax', which appears to be from page 1 on his playbook!

I bet Biden absolutely shit himself!

https://twitter.com/TheNewEuropean/status/1325801253826424833

Trump and team are a gift that will keep on giving for some time yet.  You would think that using the landscaping company next to a peep show building was the icing on the cake, but no.......

https://www.politico.com/states/new-jersey/story/2020/11/09/man-featured-at-giuliani-press-conference-is-a-sex-offender-1335241

Bannon in the permanent Twitter naughty step

https://www.comicsands.com/bannon-twitter-account-permanently-suspended-2648726265.html (https://www.comicsands.com/bannon-twitter-account-permanently-suspended-2648726265.html)

Trump's crack team of genius lawyers have filed data allegedly showing voting irregularities to back up their claim to have the vote overturned in Michigan. There's just two small problems:
1) The data is wrong
2) It's from Minnesota, not Michigan

https://twitter.com/AaronBlake/status/1329836299231096834

It's as if someone from the inside is setting them up. Just to make the Trump campaign look ever desperate and ridiculous. Long may it continue. No collusion though, just good media covfefe.

Two US comedians have bought the donaldjtrump2024 domain and launched his re-election bid for him with a page plastered with "Loser", "I lost the election", "What a Loser" etc

https://donaldjtrump2024.com/

And there's also the more elaborate and frankly rather beautiful

https://djtrumplibrary.com/

complete with "Grift Shop"
:D

The witnesses the Trump campaign are wheeling out to prove fraud are, erm, interesting.....

https://twitter.com/MarisaKabas/status/1334315220815278080?s=20

https://twitter.com/IsaacDovere/status/1334481562193317888?s=20

Haha, even Giuliani is trying to shut her up, that has to be a new low :D

Trump caught on tape trying to rig the US election

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-55524838

Just lock the cunt up and we can forget he exists.

https://twitter.com/TotalSeasons/status/1345855376374321154?s=20

This is some awesome trolling  :clap:

Fuck.ing. Hell.

Jeez! 

https://twitter.com/anonopsse/status/1346906840739803146?s=21

https://twitter.com/jason262021/status/1346905736425705476?s=21

https://twitter.com/byaaroncdavis/status/1346908166030766080

Some of the most extraordinary scenes I've ever seen.

I'd like to take some sort of personal responsibility for helping Georgia provide the final poke in the eye and kick in the bollocks of Trump last night, but I think it had little to do with me.

Today has been proper fun to watch.  I can't wait until the actual transition day - hopefully Trump is dragged out on TV, that would be the icing on the cake.

To be honest and at this rate, I would not be surprised if someone bumped the Wotsit wizened wobbling wanker off. America are seemingly still in reverse at present so they are probably due an assassination too.

Let's not forget who his enablers, supporters and imitators over here are

https://twitter.com/Kishan_Devani/status/1346965121009152001

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-activists-trump-wellingborough-fake-news-b1774341.html

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/709451/jacob-rees-mogg-backs-donald-trump-us-president-tory-choice

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErFo-Y8WMAAwJFr?format=png&name=small)
(https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2016/11/14/10/donald-trump-twitter.jpg?width=600)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErHSN3HXcAA71aU?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://api.time.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/donald-trump-nigel-farage-brexit.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErG8EWLW4AAQ15i?format=jpg&name=small)

Guiliani is such a putz!!

https://thedispatch.com/p/giuliani-to-senator-try-to-just-slow

that went well then. the count is done!

Priti Patel refusing to condemn Trump.

Somebody pictured wearing a 'Camp Auschwitz' hoody during the riots. Seriously WTF

After the brutality we've seen all summer meted out to BLM protestors in the US, the contrast with the kid gloves used to deal with actual fascists trying to mount a coup by storming the seat of America last night was quite marked. Some very serious questions need to be asked about the nature of policing in the US and specifically how in the hell the Capitol police were so easily overwhelmed in what is supposed to be one of the most secure buildings in America. The world and his dog knew that was going to kick off yesterday, the Proud Boys and other fascist groups have been not just openly planning it but boasting about it on social media for weeks, yet the Capitol police were taken by surprise? Sure.

I was staggered that these people were seemingly given a free reign to basically wander about and sit and take selfies in desks and steal property from the building. Surely they are breaking the law by just being in the building and should have been arrested. There just didn't seem to be any attempt to stop what they were doing and try and arrest them. It was almost like a tourists day out for MAGA.

There was footage doing the rounds last night of cops posing for selfies with the rioters inside the building. The infiltration of US police, military and the Secret Service by the far right is well documented, hence why there has been so many examples over the summer of cops protecting far right counter protestors attacking BLM protests. The most extreme example obviously being the Kenosha murderer who was escorted off the scene by cops after killing two people.

TBF, once DC police arrived and started to push the rioters back last night the treatment was a bit more familiar, pushing people over, punching people who didn't move etc. Although that's still at the gentler end of the violence meted out to often peaceful BLM protestors. I wonder what the difference could possibly be?

The entire system needs an overhaul.

I don't think even Trump can be blamed for the inherent racism in their system. His actions have probably just highlighted how bad it really is.

No he can't, but he can be blamed for systematically enabling and inflaming it. And the people who enabled him to do so are every bit as guilty.

Interesting picture over Gove's shoulder  :)

That video doing the rounds of a woman claiming she's been maced.

She's rubbing a fucking onion in her eye. She's trying to cover it with some sort of towel but you can still see the onion in her hand.

Goves expression is that for a boy who's just seen his first pair of titties.

it's been suggested that onions are believed to sooth the effects of tear gas...

er ok then

fantastic viewing just the same

https://twitter.com/hunterw/status/1346919171595137025?s=19

Ah, a quick look tells me that might be the case. I should have checked first.

She's still a massive twat, though.

indeed.

it's like she was shocked at being tear gassed. She was lucky imo

"Right now Trump has access to the nuclear codes but he can’t post a funny cat video on Facebook."

https://twitter.com/StephenMangan/status/1347166273009049605

Who the fuck goes to a attempted coup sorry revolution and thinks 'you know what, I will take an onion with me just in case'!

Someone who has read that onions protect them against tear gas and expecting to get teargassed?

'We live in a beautiful world,
 yeah we do, yeah we do...'

 ::)

Think her brain is pickled.

And talking of being prepared, this guy came with cable ties ready for binding the members of congress and senators they expected to take as hostages

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErIImFNW8AIhgrl?format=jpg&name=small)

(No that's not a joke, cable ties were listed as among the things to bring on far right social media chats for precisely this purpose - cf also the plot to take the Michigan govr hostage)

The question that needs answering is why was it so easy for the protesters to actually get in.

Compare that with the military style defence and aggressive tactics to deter a similar protest by Black Lives Matter

Been wondering if this culminates in Trump setting up a third party.  He has a lot of debt to finance and will no doubt be very happy with the efforts yesterday, on top of his recent "legal challenges" being a good way of raising funds.  To see people so hell bent on supporting him, he' basically got a football clubs fan base to milk now.  Add in a TV channel so he can create the news to support himself, or getting into bed with the owners of OAN or Newsmax, and the fact Farage has had his ear at times, it must be tempting for him.

Will probs go into cahoots with fucking Aaron "wanker" Banks. A match made in heaven.

I think the pumpkin prick is just pissed off because he's had to leave the "World Leaders" funfair early. Whilst Putin, Bojo and Kim et al still get to play on the rides.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-attempted-coup-federal-law-enforcement-capitol-police-2021-1?r=US&IR=T

Hardly surprising: "white nationalist" has always just been a posh term for Neo-Nazis. Here's another one, pictured part of the fascist street gang the "Proud Boys"

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErJzweVXUAEJ_--?format=jpg&name=small)

Seems there were a few in there with these zip ties (which apparently are specific to law enforcement as handcuffs, not just normal cable ties) and some of the more organised/serious types in there have been identified as ex-military.

https://twitter.com/jsrailton

What better way to hide serious professionals carrying out a coup than by hiding them in a crowd of idiots taking selfies and dressed in "shaman" outfits?

This was my thought initially but I've found out the answer...

They look like Antifa.

That's what I have been reading on social media platforms by some of my more right leaning friends and family. Apparently its all just been staged by the left.

At first I thought these conspiracy thories were kind of cute and amusing (there was one about Michelle Obama being a man) but now people that have that mindset really grind my gears. And then they harp on about how people who believe the MSM are sheep etc. I just don't get it at all.

MAYBE I NEED TO WAKE UP!!

It all goes full circle, the far right and the far left meet.

No they don't. At least not in this case. The bullshit about "Antifa false flag ops" is just that - bullshit and has been easily discredited. I think you may have missed the mocking tone in BO's post.

Yes they do. I haven't read BO's post, and I'm talking generally. Far left or right is a bad thing.

Fifth person now confirmed dead, a US Capitol PD cop who was beaten round the head with a fire extinguisher and later collapsed and died from his injuries. So Blue Lives Don't Matter after all then?

Americans (obvs especially on the right) have a bizarre intepretation of the "far left socialist extremists".  If Biden and the Democrats are socialists then Starmer would be a fucking Communist by their definition.

Bottom line for me is that there is in insidious rise of right wing/populist/call it what you will thinking that has fomented in the petri dish of social media.  Facts are meaningless and don't even get air time - you only have to look at what the voters who feel wronged in the US believe to see that.  Folks only listen to what they want to listen to, the echo chamber of Social Media only exacerbates this.  Everything else is "fake news" FFS

God it is so depressing.  If nothing, else who in any kind of sense of being "right minded" can think that Trump is the best President the US has ever had.  I am no US Political historian but I suspect the ghosts of Lincoln, Roosevelt (x2), Kennedy, Wilson, Johnson, Jefferson, Eisenhower et al may be spinning in their graves....

Pluse if he is the best president they ever had how didn't he get voted back in? (I know - STOLEN ELECTION BLAH BLAH)

Make America Hate Again  ::)

I imagine they have also been radicalised to thing that the Nazi's were socialist......

wElL wHy Is ThErE sOcIaLiSt In ThEiR nAmE tHeN?
(pls read in Ben Shapiro's squeaky voice)

FFS Bobeth!! You just need to WAK UP?!!11  ;)

"Apparently one of the 'medical emergency' deaths on Wednesday was a terrorist accidentally tasering himself in the balls whilst trying to steal a painting from the Capitol building, and then dying of a heart attack."

https://twitter.com/soapachu/status/1347518470452350976

Sorry, shouldnt laugh, but, :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

Shock and "awe, meenuts."

hahaha very good!

Blimey!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXM6h9elyTY&fbclid=IwAR09rcsoIl7AENbvFTzxQMtmbL6fCpI_fBXcBDvsvgkKuG4ao1f2iDN4STU

Similar vibes...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bnh8N-uIMAAYZpE.jpg)

tbf that's pre-riot. That's as he's waiting to go out and give his speech to incite the riot

Donald has had his Twitter account permanently suspended.

Yup, spotted this earlier. Proud to say, never followed the cunt. Even for public interest. Didn't need to what with every other cunt and their army RT'ing everything.

He's irrelevant now. More than ever. Glad that Biden pretty much called him a cunt on tv.

Now lock the prick up.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/alabama-man-charged-possession-eleven-molotov-cocktails-found-near-protest-us-capitol

Well, it seems blue lives don't matter as much as they used to.

Here's a look at what Trump said at his rally and how they can be tied back to the disorder

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1347908845281095680.html

Here's the moment the "Blue Lives Matter" American Patriots isolate a police officer defending the Capitol, drag him down the Capitol steps by his helmet and beat him senseless with, among other things, a crutch and the flagpole of an American flag

https://twitter.com/bellingcat/status/1348288680474128384

I'm just waiting for (now his account has been permanently suspended) Trump to come out and claim he never said/tweeted any of those tweets in the past 4/5 years.

It would be peak "stable genius" of him to think that because we can now no longer see his historical diary of tweets, that he'll think they don't exist too.

Bastards..... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/11/manatee-trump-etched-into-back-florida

I thought from the link name that this was going to be a tattoo.

What kind of person could do that.

The kind of person that thinks beating a police officer to death with an American flag is patriotic

the house have voted to impeach Trump again..

over to the senate at some point

fucking cunts. Manatees have a special place in my heart.

Trump going all "after the Lord Mayor's show" in his latest issued media statement. Too late now you stupid prick. Essentially says;

'Don't riot after I told you to riot. I don't stand for that'

Ok...talk about trying to cover your own ass and come across like butter wouldn't melt. Hot molten lava wouldn't melt on you ya wee preck!!

https://gizmodo.com/amazon-court-filing-includes-chilling-death-threats-pub-1846048394

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/13/zello-app-us-capitol-attack-far-right

Jeeeeesus christ

Holy moly...

The action on the 6th Jan wasn't just a bunch of loonies.  This was nationally co-ordinated and controlled from behind the scenes. If not publicly, someone was pulling the strings on behalf of President.

Quoting myself I know but further to this, before the Cheeto tinted one had his tweety bird account suspended, someone (a far righter I gather) backed up his entire twitter feed and his account now "exists" on Gab. Gab, I am led to believe is a far right version of Twitter. More to the point if Orange small child was going to claim he had never tweeted his stuff, he now has his own admirers to thank for keeping all evidence in the public domain.

Nice bit of irony to update on  :pint:

TBF that doesn't mean it wasn't a bunch of loonies either though :)

It has been pointed out repeatedly by people looking into this that it's a remarkable coincidence that Trump pardoned the Blackwater (private army operating with US forces in Iraq) operatives responsible for a massacre of civilians in Baghdad in 2007 that led to an upsurge in support for Al Qaeda in Iraq at the time just a week or so before the coup. Paying back favours? Or showing people who needed to be shown that they wouldn't be punished?

DoJ now saying in court documents that at least some of the rioters planned to kidnap and assassinate elected officials, including Mike Pence
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ery88JHXcAcXewZ?format=jpg&name=small)

Land of the free, though.

Home. Of. The. Brave...





...but predominantly white male bigoted and racist.

So it turns out the Proud Boys' leader is actually an FBI grass

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-proudboys-leader-exclusive-idUSKBN29W1PE

Which may explain why he was conveniently nicked two days before the Capitol riot so he couldn't be there. Feds protecting their asset.

The QAnon Congresswoman (no, I'm not exaggerating she really does believe in QAnon) also has some other quite "out there" theories, including this one:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/marjorie-taylor-greene-qanon-wildfires-space-laser-rothschild-execute.html

She thinks the California Wildfires a couple of years ago were started by a "Jewish Space Laser" because, I don't fucking know. But this woman stood and was elected to the House of Representatives as a mainstream Republican candidate. That's how fucking batshit the Republican Party has become now. And it's why Trump is likely to escape being convicted in the impeachment trial.

In it's defence, Georgia did vote for Biden and the two Democrat Senators, but yes, the political spectrum skews over a cliff on the right side.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55860238

The QAnon Congresswoman MJT also subscribes to the Alex Jones/InfoWars' lie that the Sandy Hook and Parkland massacres (school shootings) were false flags and was warned for harrassing one of the teenage survivors, chasing him down the street calling him a liar. So, of course, the Republicans have just nominated her to sit as a Republican representative on the House Education Committee. State Republican parties across the US are censuring or trying to oust elected representatives who criticised or even mentioned Trump's role in the Capitol insurrection. The Republican base has just gone full out fascist.

I can only assume most of this is true, or is at least legally defendable...
https://www.axios.com/trump-oval-office-meeting-sidney-powell-a8e1e466-2e42-42d0-9cf1-26eb267f8723.html?utm_campaign=organic&utm_medium=socialshare&utm_source=twitter

Senator Cruz going to Cancun whilst Texas doesn't have electricity is a terrible look

I mean Senator Cruz continuing to defend insurrectionists who tried to lynch his colleagues wasn't a great look either. Not sure he's really that bothered is he as long as he can keep feeding "the base"?

A lot of them are blaming the new green deal - which hasn't even been enacted yet.

Many are blaming renewable energy - which is just a lie. The wind turbines are mostly fine except for a few that have had difficulty, and apparently, solar power is even more efficient in cold weather. (Unless covered by snow).

It's actually the fossil fuel reactors that are causing the problem.

Although despite all his rhetoric defending Trump’s actions in all of this, deep down he will have been devastated that Trump didn’t get convicted by the Senate, his path to the 2024 Republican nomination would have been easier if it that had of happened

Quite. Both he and Josh Hawes are a bit pointless if Trump runs whereas if he's disbarred (and he may yet be by criminal convictions) Cruz can pose as the continuity fascist candidate and Hawes can do continuity to the base and his "a fascism you can trust" schtick to the trad Republicans and business.

Yep.  Made worse by the fact the wind turbines would be just fine if someone has simply done the equivalent of popping the anti-freeze on them a few days ahead of time and the fact Texas decided to separate itself from the National Grid in an attempt to reduce regulations.  That now means they have no way of importing energy to cover their production shortfall.

It's all the coal, gas and even Nuclear power plants that are struggling because they all need water as a coolant.  How ironic, it's too cold to cool them!

Plenty of people have been reminding Texans that wind turbines work pretty well in the Nordics - great timing given GM have just started an Ad campaign to push electric cars with a tongue in cheek advert starting Will Ferrell having a fight with Norway.

Congratulations to the NRA, celebrating getting a ban on assault rifles in Colorado overturned by the courts, just 10 days before the latest mass shooting in Colorado carried out by a mentally unstable man armed with an assault rifle he bought 6 days ago.

Why would anyone need an assault rifle? Crazy.

This would not have happened if everybody had a gun...

Quite. Yet Ted Cruz stood up in the Senate *after* the latest massacre, angrily denouncing calls for controls on assault rifles, saying "every time there's a mass shooting" the Democrats call for gun controls. I think the fact you can use the phrase "every time there's a mass shooting" gives a clue that you might have a problem there, Ted.

I was also reading that the nuts in America are vehemenently against having guns registered as they think this means they are going to be taken away from them.

I just can't understand why yanks see the 'need' for guns so much. I keep hearing the second amendment being mentioned and the need to overthrow government etc but that was from a bygone era. They just don't seem to be able to move with the times.

As though civilians with assault rifles can really take on a large, well equipped, and trained army.

I once pointed this out to a gun nut and his reply was that civilians should be allowed heavy weaponry as well...

I guess its always been part of the culture, and so difficult for any government to remove. Especially as pissing off the NRA isn't a vote winner.

I know, I know - but regardless of how blatantly good it would be to crack down, enough of 'Murica isn't in agreement.

They are probably always going to have guns, but heavy weaponry for civilians is ludicrous.

But they are - the majority want controls.

It's just that the NRA are so powerful that they lobby the government and get their way. Obama was once saying that they can't even perform research into it - the NRA go all litigious as soon as anybody tries.

Yeah I think this is the case. So intwined in their culture that guns will always be around. But quite why people see the need to own an Uzi or whatever is the automatic weapon of choice (AR-15) is beyond me.

This dude was talking about anti-tank missiles and the like. PROPER heavy gear.

It's obviously a ridiculous thing to suggest but was the only rebuttal they had to the flaw in their *logic*. (The flaw being that civilians with assault rifles alone cannot beat the army). They'll just use ANY argument, no matter how poor, in favor of people having guns.

There's no point getting upset about it because it's never going to change.

Perhaps not, but worth keeping an eye on because the links between the "libertarian" right in the US and in the UK are extensive, including with links to the gun lobby. Given the recent acceleration of importing trends from the hard right in the US to the UK, it's well worth us being aware of what the consequences of a "libertarian" approach to gun laws are

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18086052.boris-johnson-compared-gun-crackdown-dunblane-nanny-confiscating-toys/

This is a tough one - the Constitutional aspect makes it near impossible to move too far on the matter, and while there is certainly plenty of room for debate about what the Framers meant (they added the 2nd Amendment during a time when Arms meant a Musket) you won;t convince the Country to do away with it.  They do have limits imposed on types of weaponry - you can't just purchase a Nuclear weapon for example, so you would think that with public support they could restrict guns like the AR15.  BY and large the public do support such measures.

You really have to live here to appreciate the way the Constitution frames the culture here though - in bad ways, but also in some great ways that creates the type of Country that could become a Super Power and put a Man on the Moon.

I am optimistic that they may get some movement this time - the Democrats have control of all three Houses, which they didn't have in 2013 when trying to get something done (the first real time the public showed it's agreement).  We shall see.

They won't agree with it but the consitution needs ammending to match the times we live in now.  Those that say the constitution cannot be ammended should ask themselves why they are called ammendments.

It will never happen though, well not for anything that they feel so strongly about.  I lived there, and work with and are friends with a lot of Americans - if there is one subject that you can be assured will get an energetic reaction is taking their guns away.  Really level headed great mates turn into absolute nuts if you even dare to breath about the subject.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Definitely outdated, I'm glad there aren't as many militia types in the USA as there could be (i assume they can't read)

It gets very nuanced - Militia here is not what people now describe as Militia for example.  This was prior to the establishment of an Army - there are some that argue that the Army fits the description here and you could actually take everyone else's guns away from them.

Other people take the view that the Militia is simply the civilian population - who would be called up in the event of need, and as such, they should all be able to carry arms just incase they are needed.

It's written with the King in mind - they had just overthrown an oppressive "Government" via armed conflict, they wanted to enshrine something in law that prevented any future Govt. from thinking it was above its Civilians.  That was written before we developed fancy new Arms and technology that essentially pushed the Govt's arsenal well beyond anything you'd expect the common folk to be able to over throw these days.

As with most things described as a Right - taking it away is tough once you have it.  Imagine the NHS being enshrined as a Human Right in UK law, then trying to replace it with Private Healthcare - that gets bad enough press when it isn't a right.

And apparently the Court of Appeal in the 9th Circuit (who he?) has just ruled there is no "right to carry" in the US, notwithstanding the 2nd Amendment (because the 2nd Amendment gives citizens the right to bear arms when part of a standing militia, not to take a fucking machine gun to do their shopping)

https://twitter.com/NRA/status/1374768895408680962

That makes it quite awkward when you can pick up a Machine Gun in Trader Joe's   ;)

https://www.facebook.com/roguekite/videos/guntown/1339028342799498/

Pretty much knob on!