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Non-Footy Forum => The Nevillew General Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Flashheart on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 11:21:57



Title: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 11:21:57
What a fucking trainwreck.

Just seen a video on twitter where there was a stand off between looters and the owners of the store they were trying to loot. The old bill showed up, the looters ran away, and the old bill arrested the (black) store owners.

They then arrested some random woman who was just driving past.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Batch on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 11:37:29
Its not going to be easy to resolve is it.

I'm sure that incident won't be magnified to fan the flames!


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: suttonred on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 11:41:02
And it looks like the neo nazi morons are now on the move there. Going to get v bad, and where america starts we will follow. well not us, but lots of people will.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Costanza on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 11:49:13
It's been incredible viewing (not in a good way) especially the footage of TV crews and journalists getting zero leeway. Worldwide coverage of a nation that isn't dealing with this very well at all.

Who'd have thought the combination of racial tension, polarised politics, the 'war' on media, a surge in unemployment and the rest of the fallout from COVID-19 would create this mess?


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 11:56:28
It's been incredible viewing (not in a good way) especially the footage of TV crews and journalists getting zero leeway.
You appear to have mis-spelled "deliberately shot and beaten up by uniformed hooligans who have been given a sense of complete impunity by a deranged fascist President".


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Chubbs on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 11:58:05
Its fucked up, and neither side are covering themselves in glory.

It's plain and clear that black people are targeted for no reason other than the color of their skin, but then you see all the looting and violence that a select few cause and its like...come on! really?

I also feel sorry for Law Enforcement because the actions of a few tars everyone with the same brush and all of a sudden every single one is in the wrong in the eyes of some.

Its a lose lose situation and Trump isn't helping the situation.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 12:04:03
It's plain and clear that black people are targeted for no reason other than the color of their skin, but then you see all the looting and violence that a select few cause and its like...come on! really?

I also feel sorry for Law Enforcement because the actions of a few tars everyone with the same brush and all of a sudden every single one is in the wrong in the eyes of some.
:hmmm:


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: RedRag on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 12:05:20
Spot the difference:

White, bearded men, en masse, bearing guns sweep in to a State Government building to protest about not being able to have haircuts and get Trump's support..... :hmmm:


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 12:23:15

It's plain and clear that black people are targeted for no reason other than the color of their skin, but then you see all the looting and violence that a select few cause and its like...come on! really?


Plenty of video out there illustrating that a hell of a lot of the looters and rioters are white, also been noted that a fair few of those arrested have  links to white supremacist groups.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: mystical_goat on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 12:25:12
It's absolutely crazy over there, especially the way the unrest has quickly spread to many other states and cities. A part of me did think Trump might attempt to diffuse it somehow, but he's doubling down and now threatening to turn the army on the people. I saw that last night a car was driven into and through a crowd of riot police and national guardsmen, and that officers in St Louis were shot.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 12:25:49
Plenty of video out there illustrating that a hell of a lot of the looters and rioters are white, also been noted that a fair few of those arrested have  links to white supremacist groups.
Twitter have also acknowledged they're taking down fake accounts inciting violence purporting to be "AntiFa" or Black Lives Matter that have been created by white supremacist or "alt-right" (aka digital Nazis) groups


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 12:27:04
It's absolutely crazy over there, especially the way the unrest has quickly spread to many other states and cities. A part of me did think Trump might attempt to diffuse it somehow, but he's doubling down and now threatening to turn the army on the people. I saw that last night a car was driven into and through a crowd of riot police and national guardsmen, and that officers in St Louis were shot.
There have also been multiple examples of vehicles being driven at crowds of protestors and drive-by shootings of protest crowds, including at least one murder. The assumption is these attacks are from the far right.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Leggett on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 12:28:09
A part of me did think Trump might attempt to diffuse it somehow...

I don't mean to be rude, but... what? Really? The racist-in-chief manbaby?


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: mystical_goat on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 12:31:36
I don't mean to be rude, but... what? Really? The racist-in-chief manbaby?

I should have known better!

Just thought he or somebody near him might be able to understand that this is unlikely to end well, especially when inflamed.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 12:33:43
I should have known better!

Just thought he or somebody near him might be able to understand that this is unlikely to end well, especially when inflamed.
Think it was said on the politics thread, he probably regards a race war as his best chance of winning in November. Everything he does is viewed through the lens of activating his base. He's loving it


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Mr Stevens on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 12:58:20
Can I recommend 'Faranheit 11 9', a Michael Moore film on Netflix.

The last 15 minutes is absolutely frightening in the light of current events.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 13:02:55
Think it was said on the politics thread, he probably regards a race war as his best chance of winning in November. Everything he does is viewed through the lens of activating his base. He's loving it

Or alternatively cancelling the election in light of civil unrest?


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 13:12:10
Or alternatively cancelling the election in light of civil unrest?
Can he do that legally? Not that the legality would necessarily bother him


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 13:18:40
Can he do that legally? Not that the legality would necessarily bother him

I assume its much the same like the cancellation of the locals over here due to C-19, one thing for Trump the events following Floyd have rather taken his C-19 response off the front pages.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: kirky69 on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 13:28:13
Think it was said on the politics thread, he probably regards a race war as his best chance of winning in November. Everything he does is viewed through the lens of activating his base. He's loving it

100% his rationale. Watched the live coverage on CNN last night, clearly showing he authorised the use of tear gas and rubber bullets against his own people, who at the time were conducting a very peaceful protest outside the White House, purely so that he could walk across to a church (which he doesnt attend) for a photo opportunity of him holding a bible (which he doesnt read). A dangerous dictator,  he wouldnt be out of place in China or Russia. He is inciting a Civil War.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: mystical_goat on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 13:37:38
"Is that your Bible?"

"It's A Bible"

 :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

Love the way it takes him quite a while to figure out how he wants to hold it up too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWEuY_15iVc

And the peaceful sound of sirens and bangs in the background.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 13:59:00
"Is that your Bible?"

"It's A Bible"

 :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

Love the way it takes him quite a while to figure out how he wants to hold it up too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWEuY_15iVc

And the peaceful sound of sirens and bangs in the background.

I don't really get the whole bible thing, unless he thinks that everyone not white is immediately not Christian?

I have never read the bible, but I am not aware of the bit that states its fine for you to order peaceful citizens to be shot and and sprayed with tear gas just so you can got for a photo opp?


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 14:09:37
The bible could be (and has been) used to support all sorts of atrocities. Nothing comes to my on this specifically (I have read it, but it's a lot to remember). I'm sure some evangelical will come out with a verse that will support his actions sooner or later, though.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 14:13:55
ĎHere is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.í


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Richie Wellen-Dowd on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 14:14:24
Plenty of video out there illustrating that a hell of a lot of the looters and rioters are white, also been noted that a fair few of those arrested have  links to white supremacist groups.

Do you have a link to that out of interest? I personally think the odd neo-nazi might have tried to instigate things in places and then melt away, but there's no way they can organise thousands of young whites to turn up and coincidentally look and act like antifa. I've found it a bit ridiculous how many people are feigning ignorance of what antifa are(not you!) so that they can take them on face value of their name.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 14:33:34
Do you have a link to that out of interest? I personally think the odd neo-nazi might have tried to instigate things in places and then melt away, but there's no way they can organise thousands of young whites to turn up and coincidentally look and act like antifa. I've found it a bit ridiculous how many people are feigning ignorance of what antifa are(not you!) so that they can take them on face value of their name.

I'll have to root around as it was yesterday morning, will look on the other computer later once we get back from our first socially distanced engagement with the in laws for 10 weeks!

Edit - Google threw this out https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/george-floyd-protests-white-supremacists-minnesota-minneapolis-st-paul-a9541676.html , but there were pictures elsewhere of people in custody with plenty of far right tattoos on their bodies. 

The whole antifa tag is something of a nonsense as the anti fascist movement is made up of literally  hundreds of organisations.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 14:38:53
Antifa isn't even an organisation at all. It's just a name given for people who oppose fascism.

And Trump wants to ban it. He literally wants to oppose opposition to facism.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: 4D on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 14:39:47
Probably more to do with the anarchistic yobs who smash places up.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 14:41:59
Probably more to do with the anarchistic yobs who smash places up.
It's a lot more to do with Trump's standard response to anything that might reflect badly on him: look for someone else to blame. Preferably one of the following: the Dems, the media, the left, Chyyynaaa.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 14:44:54
Probably more to do with the anarchistic yobs who smash places up.

Then why not try and ban the neo-nazis as well?



Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: 4D on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 14:46:52
Banning any form of extremism gets my vote


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 14:48:04
Banning any form of extremism gets my vote
You do realise, of course, that that would in itself be an act of extremism? #4DsThoughtPolice


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 14:51:55
Banning any form of extremism gets my vote

Cool.

But you're not the president. Trump is. And he is trying to ban opposition to facism, but not pro-facist groups.

I rather think that Trump's actions are more pertinent to the topic than the thoughts and/or actions of anybody in this forum.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: 4D on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 14:52:56
You do realise, of course, that that would in itself be an act of extremism? #4DsThoughtPolice

That's a bit extreme Paul  :)


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 14:57:32
That's a bit extreme Paul  :)
Extremely :)


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Richie Wellen-Dowd on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 15:01:03
Antifa isn't even an organisation at all. It's just a name given for people who oppose fascism.

And Trump wants to ban it. He literally wants to oppose opposition to facism.

From the little I've read about it from before all this happened, although they might not have a cetralised leadership they are organised into city chapters. To me they've always seemed like anarchists, smash the system and a starbucks. Personally i don't see them as real allies of black people in America, although clearly that's none of my business to chose.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 15:03:29
Antifa isn't even an organisation at all. It's just a name given for people who oppose fascism.

And Trump wants to ban it. He literally wants to oppose opposition to facism.

You are going some when you have the Chechen leader suggesting you need to rein things in a little.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/trump-kadyrov-chechnya-us-human-rights-protest-a9544016.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/white-supremacist-telegram-channel-encourages-violence-george-floyd-protests-2020-6


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: donkey on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 15:04:02
ĎHere is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.í

I left alone, my mind was blank...


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Bogus Dave on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 15:10:30
Interesting on Instagram that the Ďblackoutí posts are being tagged with BlackLivesMatter, which means that if you search that tag you see black screens rather than any of the actual footage

Donít think thereís anything nefarious behind it, more just a good example of people offering Ďsupportí that doesnít actually do anything to help the cause other than make the person feel good about doing something. Which, from what Iíve read, is one of the things that angers BLM


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: 4D on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 15:19:00
I left alone, my mind was blank...

Got the red vinyl  ;)


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 15:19:34

But you're not the president. Trump is. And he is trying to ban opposition to facism, but not pro-facist groups.


He is also trying to ban an organisation that doesn't really exist and even if it did, antifa is a domestic entity and, as such, not a candidate for inclusion on the State Department's list of foreign terror organisations.

Its almost like he doesn't know what he is doing.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Wobbly Bob on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 15:30:19
A brief antifa for dummies guide.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/X56rQkDgd0qqB7R68t6t7C/seven-things-you-need-to-know-about-antifa


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 16:02:30
A brief antifa for dummies guide.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/X56rQkDgd0qqB7R68t6t7C/seven-things-you-need-to-know-about-antifa

The thing is if Trump had taken note of the repeated calls, particularly after mass shootings by white supremacists, to establish a domestic terrorism law, he could ban them but he decided not to do so, I wonder why?


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: bamboonoshop on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 16:19:04
Interesting on Instagram that the Ďblackoutí posts are being tagged with BlackLivesMatter, which means that if you search that tag you see black screens rather than any of the actual footage

Donít think thereís anything nefarious behind it, more just a good example of people offering Ďsupportí that doesnít actually do anything to help the cause other than make the person feel good about doing something. Which, from what Iíve read, is one of the things that angers BLM

No, what you're seeing is that most people are literally posting a black image. It isn't because of the hashtag used. So what you're "seeing" is what you're supposed to be seeing. Also I can vouch for it because one of my posts has a video and is tagged with #BlackLivesMatter and you can definitely see the video.

Also don't necessarily agree with your comment about people doing it to "feel better". There will always be a section of people that do of course but I don't think that's a consensus. Not when a lot of the people posting are black.

Short of flying out to the USA, protesting or paying to donate to certain charities, is there really any problem with people showing online support on top of may be doing other things too (like calling people out for their enabled closet racism, et al)? Especially when considering that we are in a pandemic, so online has become even more of the go to tool as a visual presence in making a stand. Mass protest in public is more difficult for obvious reasons and have no issue with an online statement of support.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Bogus Dave on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 16:29:33
No, what you're seeing is that most people are literally posting a black image. It isn't because of the hashtag used. So what you're "seeing" is what you're supposed to be seeing. Also I can vouch for it because one of my posts has a video and is tagged with #BlackLivesMatter and you can definitely see the video.

Also don't necessarily agree with your comment about people doing it to "feel better". There will always be a section of people that do of course but I don't think that's a consensus. Not when a lot of the people posting are black.

Short of flying out to the USA, protesting or paying to donate to certain charities, is there really any problem with people showing online support on top of may be doing other things too (like calling people out for their enabled closet racism, et al)? Especially when considering that we are in a pandemic, so online has become even more of the go to tool as a visual presence in making a stand. Mass protest in public is more difficult for obvious reasons and have no issue with an online statement of support.

Thank you for your essay. Iím aware of how Instagram works - if you search #blacklivesmatter, rather than seeing footage or things useful to the cause you see black screens due to people using the tag to offer support/virtue signal (depending on your outlook). Doing so diluted the actualí blm messaging

Those far away could always post without the tag, or donate to one of the hundreds of charities supporting the cause


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: JBZ on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 16:32:20
No, what you're seeing is that most people are literally posting a black image. It isn't because of the hashtag used. So what you're "seeing" is what you're supposed to be seeing. Also I can vouch for it because one of my posts has a video and is tagged with #BlackLivesMatter and you can definitely see the video.

Also don't necessarily agree with your comment about people doing it to "feel better". There will always be a section of people that do of course but I don't think that's a consensus. Not when a lot of the people posting are black.

Short of flying out to the USA, protesting or paying to donate to certain charities, is there really any problem with people showing online support on top of may be doing other things too (like calling people out for their enabled closet racism, et al)? Especially when considering that we are in a pandemic, so online has become even more of the go to tool as a visual presence in making a stand. Mass protest in public is more difficult for obvious reasons and have no issue with an online statement of support.

Have you called it out when there have been instances here on the TEF?


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 16:39:24
The thing is if Trump had taken note of the repeated calls, particularly after mass shootings by white supremacists, to establish a domestic terrorism law, he could ban them but he decided not to do so, I wonder why?
White supremacists and far-right extremists are now responsible for the vast majority of terrorism in the US and have been for the past decade:

https://www.lawfareblog.com/addressing-national-security-threat-white-supremacist-terrorism

The article is from 6 months ago, so given there have been several far right killings since then, the proportion of 73% of terrorist-related deaths attributable to the far-right is likely to have increased since then.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: bamboonoshop on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 16:59:04
Thank you for your essay. Iím aware of how Instagram works - if you search #blacklivesmatter, rather than seeing footage or things useful to the cause you see black screens due to people using the tag to offer support/virtue signal (depending on your outlook). Doing so diluted the actualí blm messaging

Those far away could always post without the tag, or donate to one of the hundreds of charities supporting the cause

I did mention this above. Whether you chose to read it is another matter. However, we are also in a pandemic and not everyone has a job now, let alone the disposable income to donate at this moment. Although people should - if they can afford to do so. Not everyone can.

If you're so aware of how "it" works then you'll know that the posting of black screens is being widely supported. There are other hashtags you can look at if you want to explore more BLM posts; it isn't exclusive to just #BlackLivesMatter but then you'd know that, wouldn't you?


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: bamboonoshop on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 17:06:25
Have you called it out when there have been instances here on the TEF?

Yes. Although online can sometimes be a shit place to be and when you have family members in real life that need calling out, then sometimes that important discussion comes first.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: JBZ on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 17:16:30
Yes. Although online can sometimes be a shit place to be and when you have family members in real life that need calling out, then sometimes that important discussion comes first.

Noted.  The point made earlier was a good one in my view. Adopting images on social media accounts because you think you should is one thing, but it's all very hollow, if in reality, that's the full extent of your 'condemnation'.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Bogus Dave on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 17:24:16
I did mention this above. Whether you chose to read it is another matter. However, we are also in a pandemic and not everyone has a job now, let alone the disposable income to donate at this moment. Although people should - if they can afford to do so. Not everyone can.

If you're so aware of how "it" works then you'll know that the posting of black screens is being widely supported. There are other hashtags you can look at if you want to explore more BLM posts; it isn't exclusive to just #BlackLivesMatter but then you'd know that, wouldn't you?

Im not saying donít post a black screen in support. Iím saying that tagging it with #blm prevents actual blm content from being as accessible - which is what has happened


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: bamboonoshop on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 17:24:36
Noted.  The point made earlier was a good one in my view. Adopting images on social media accounts because you think you should is one thing, but it's all very hollow, if in reality, that's the full extent of your 'condemnation'.

Agreed and people should do more. Opening up a discussion and adopting images/supporting a movement via social media is a good starting point; today it is one of the largest ways to gain exposure (even more so in this environment).

Sometimes people can't always do more (esp. financially) and genuinely feel helpless. But they can at least start a discussion and if that happens to be online? So be it. One would hope that those conversations can spill into their real lives and to families, friends, colleagues and so on.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Abrahammer on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 17:40:11
Well thatís todayís sermon done with quite early I suppose


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: JBZ on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 17:56:47
It'll all be forgotten tomorrow anyway when the next Facebook fad comes along.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Jimmy Quinn on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 18:38:51
Its fucked up, and neither side are covering themselves in glory.

It's plain and clear that black people are targeted for no reason other than the color of their skin, but then you see all the looting and violence that a select few cause and its like...come on! really?

I also feel sorry for Law Enforcement because the actions of a few tars everyone with the same brush and all of a sudden every single one is in the wrong in the eyes of some.

Its a lose lose situation and Trump isn't helping the situation.


Many of us can remember the riots in St Paul's, Handsworth & Toxteth in the early 80's


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: bamboonoshop on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 20:40:00
Well thatís todayís sermon done with quite early I suppose

It's not Sunday. I practice what I preach  ;)

It'll all be forgotten tomorrow anyway when the next Facebook fad comes along.

Not for me it won't.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Valid Pint on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 22:02:01
Je suis Charlie


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Chubbs on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 22:44:13
This annoys me no end. The spreading of fake news. The thing is, people lap it up. I don't need snopes to tell me that guy was no FBI agent.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fbi-agent-arrested-protests/

It just intentionally fuels an allready raging fire.

Disclaimer: What happened in that video was still wrong


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: RobertT on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 22:55:31
Itís all a bit weird here.  In the town where we live they had a protest in the main square but it was all very civil with Police and Protestors mingling.  Which is weird itself, because overt racism is just around the corner here.  So for anyone wondering why they powder keg set off, itís because there are still plenty of public racists here, itís not a big leap to see some of those people may join the police.

Trump is loved by a small but not insignificant group, usually white and usually no higher than a High School education.  Thatís not a stereotype, itís real.  It is a group that the USA forgot about when all the jobs where automated or offshored.  That is not to say theyíve had it tough, itís a new phenomenon, but it created a sense of being shat on, not unlike the centuries of shit the African Americans have taken to a much worse extent.  You now have two groups fighting to be the ones most downtrodden and itís ugly.

I doubt Trump wins this time. The middle ground will likely pop out to vote against him, but his ability to motivate a small group of voters canít be ignored.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: bamboonoshop on Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 23:56:01
Im not saying donít post a black screen in support. Iím saying that tagging it with #blm prevents actual blm content from being as accessible - which is what has happened

Sorry BD only just seen this. Seems like we posted at pretty much the same time.

Yes, I agree with what you mean I think possibly it came across a little differently in the original message. I have largely used the #BlackOutTuesday for the black screens and asked others to do so too. Only in the video have I kept the #BlackLivesMatter tag.

Anyway, I'll be auctioning off one of my black & white prints from tomorrow and all proceeds will go to SARI. So once the link is up, even if you're not a fan of my photography. I invite you all to bid. If you can afford to do so.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Ardiles on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 07:57:05
I doubt Trump wins this time. The middle ground will likely pop out to vote against him, but his ability to motivate a small group of voters canít be ignored.

Given that the US political system is inherently binary - you're blue or red, and that's it - I would imagine that capturing the centre ground would be enough.  The problem for Trump, though, is that he only knows how to talk to the MAGA crowd, and they're in the bag already.  He squeezed through last time by coming 2nd (in terms of votes cast) in a 2 horse race - which is weird in itself.  But you have to hope that if he continues as he is now, he won't be so lucky this November.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 11:07:39
Itís all a bit weird here.  In the town where we live they had a protest in the main square but it was all very civil with Police and Protestors mingling.  Which is weird itself, because overt racism is just around the corner here.  So for anyone wondering why they powder keg set off, itís because there are still plenty of public racists here, itís not a big leap to see some of those people may join the police.

Trump is loved by a small but not insignificant group, usually white and usually no higher than a High School education.  Thatís not a stereotype, itís real.  It is a group that the USA forgot about when all the jobs where automated or offshored.  That is not to say theyíve had it tough, itís a new phenomenon, but it created a sense of being shat on, not unlike the centuries of shit the African Americans have taken to a much worse extent.  You now have two groups fighting to be the ones most downtrodden and itís ugly.

I doubt Trump wins this time. The middle ground will likely pop out to vote against him, but his ability to motivate a small group of voters canít be ignored.
I think you're right, both about the likely outcome in November and a very good analysis of the "two groups fighting to be the ones most downtrodden and itís ugly". The thing is that this genie isn't going back in the bottle. People seem to think that if Trump is defeated in November, that's it, it's all good and we can go back to how everything was before. But it won't. Trump has enabled and emboldened overt racists and white supremacists in a way we've not seen before (or at least not since the 1960s) and they're not going away. That's why the white supremacist/neo-Nazi fringe were so delighted when he won, not because they really thought he'd suddenly immediately enact all their White Power shit, but because they knew he'd given permission for their hatred to go mainstream. That problem will remain whatever happens in November


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 11:17:59
People seem to think that if Trump is defeated in November, that's it, it's all good and we can go back to how everything was before. But it won't.

On a more selfish level it is going to royally fuck up the UK considering that our government have pinned their mast to him and this idea that through the links our governments enjoy at the moment we will get a good trade deal (FWIW I don't believe this for a minute).

See also https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/dominic-raab-donald-trump-george-floyd_uk_5ed38d32c5b66f44f99c5a1d

The problem for Trump, though, is that he only knows how to talk to the MAGA crowd, and they're in the bag already.

A trait he shared with Jeremy Corbyn.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 11:47:48
On a more selfish level it is going to royally fuck up the UK considering that our government have pinned their mast to him and this idea that through the links our governments enjoy at the moment we will get a good trade deal (FWIW I don't believe this for a minute).
It may spare us from our govt tieing us into a disastrous trade deal with the US which destroys food standards and opens our public services up to pillaging from US mega-corporations.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Bob's Orange on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 11:52:15
One of Trump's latest tweets 'get tough police' I doubt is going to help quell these matters somehow.

What an ass hat.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 12:43:07
Wonder whether Andrew Neill will get the same scrutiny and rebuke from the BBC that Maitlis (And Munchetty before) got?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZf1dbsXYAEqrr5?format=jpg&name=900x900)



Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 13:04:52
Blimey.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Banker on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 14:02:45
Wonder whether Andrew Neill will get the same scrutiny and rebuke from the BBC that Maitlis (And Munchetty before) got


Doubt it, unlike the other two it wasn't on the Beeb, done while at work. Don't people often put a twitter disclaimer 'views are my own' ?


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Richie Wellen-Dowd on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 14:04:38
Wonder whether Andrew Neill will get the same scrutiny and rebuke from the BBC that Maitlis (And Munchetty before) got?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZf1dbsXYAEqrr5?format=jpg&name=900x900)



I wouldn't put too much faith in anything Andy Ngo says, he's been assaulted by antifa a few times and i think he got a blood clot on his brain the last time. Not the most impartial commentators to say the least.

As for Andrew Neil, I'd assume he's safe from scrutiny because he's not on a bbc tv show at the time(that's not to say I agree with the others being censored). He's actually shared and posted a lot of criticism of Johnson and his government recently, which should also be frowned on if this is, no?


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 14:41:15
I wouldn't put too much faith in anything Andy Ngo says, he's been assaulted by antifa a few times and i think he got a blood clot on his brain the last time. Not the most impartial commentators to say the least.

I must confess I wasn't fully aware of Mr Ngo and his work, a little research emphasised that he is something of the provocateur.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/josephbernstein/andy-ngo-portland-antifa.





Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 16:00:22
Some complain that they should be protesting peacefully.

This bloke could not have been acting more peacefully, yet: https://twitter.com/joncoopertweets/status/1268150549666500608

I hope they burn the fucking place down. Nothing else has worked so far. I only hope they target the large businesses/establishments and leave the small business owners alone.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 16:08:39
https://www.thenation.com/article/activism/antifa-trump-fbi/


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: tans on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 16:11:36
Obama addressing the US this evening


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 16:24:20
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZkEXfxUcAElNPC?format=jpg&name=900x900)


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: theakston2k on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 16:49:42
Some complain that they should be protesting peacefully.

This bloke could not have been acting more peacefully, yet: https://twitter.com/joncoopertweets/status/1268150549666500608

I hope they burn the fucking place down. Nothing else has worked so far. I only hope they target the large businesses/establishments and leave the small business owners alone.
I know you donít mean literally, but what would Ďburning it downí achieve exactly? I really donít get all these people that seem to advocate burning everything down! Same goes for targeting companies of any size, protesting is one thing, advocating wanton destruction is quite another and would likely cause untold harm everyone.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Bogus Dave on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 16:57:02
What did throwing tea into Boston harbour achieve 250-odd years ago??

Yeah the population wanted a better, fairer system, but they didnít need to destroy property to get it


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 16:57:29
I know you donít mean literally, but what would Ďburning it downí achieve exactly?

I do mean it literally. Or at least important businesses and landmarks etc. Set them on fucking fire - literally.

Maybe it will make people stop treating them like cunts.

And maybe it won't, but nothing else has worked. Might as well give it a go. Fucking keep it up until those at the top start taking notice I say.

How many serious issues regarding equality in society have been settled with peaceful protests?
How many have been solved by bringing the establishment to their knees?

My main issue with the idea is the orange cunt at the top, though. He's far too arrogant to concede. Although he might be forced to if congress grew some fucking spines among them.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Valid Pint on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 16:58:03
Obama addressing the US this evening
I suggest a reference to Tariq Jahan should be made.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: theakston2k on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 17:03:45
I do mean it literally. Or at least important businesses and landmarks etc. Set them on fucking fire - literally.

Maybe it will make people stop treating them like cunts.

And maybe it won't, but nothing else has worked. Might as well give it a go. Fucking keep it up until those at the top start taking notice I say.

How many serious issues within equality in society have been settled with peaceful protests?
How many have been solved by bringing the establishment to their knees?

My main idea with the idea is the orange cunt at the top, though. He's far too arrogant to concede.
So the majority of the population who treat people equally and agree with the cause should all suffer, lose their jobs and livelihoods as businesses are burnt to the ground so that it puts everyone on the same level?  
As for landmarks a lot of them are of historical importance, like the Lincoln memorial got defaced the other day. It would be the equivalent of us destroying Westminster, the Royal Palaces etc.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 17:07:49
So the minorities should just suffer and be allow themselves to be killed (literally) so as not to upset the others? I know what I'd say to that if I was black an living in America.

And fuck the 'historical importance' of landmarks. Peoples' lives are immeasurably more valuable.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 17:10:43
And I have already pointed out that I think small businesses should be left alone.

Let the corpations and insurance comapnies take the brunt. Hit the politicains and their cronies where it hurts them most.



Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: 4D on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 17:12:58

How many serious issues regarding equality in society have been settled with peaceful protests?
How many have been solved by bringing the establishment to their knees?
 

This is a democracy where the people voted in the establishment, why are you not blaming the people?


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: RobertT on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 17:14:37
No it isnít.  It is aFederal Republic of States.  The popular vote doesnít even count, let alone the fact that two of the past three Presidents didnít even win the Popular vote.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 17:15:39
This is a democracy where the people voted in the establishment, why are you not blaming the people?

You do understand that who you vote for is not necessarilly who gets into power, right?

And that the establishment can be corrupt to the core no wonder who gets in?

^ And what RobertT said.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: 4D on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 17:17:30
Do you think the police or public were any different under Obama's tenure?


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: RobertT on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 17:21:19
Hard core Constitutionalists will delight in telling you how it is not a Democracy and it is in fact a great experiment designed to limit the excesses of Government and empower the individual.  The problem they are facing is that human nature is a fucking arse and come individuals are empowered more than others.  Over time they just go an create the same upper power chamber they sought to get rid of centuries ago by banishing a Kings army.  The concept seems sound, but it is always only as strong as the peopleís weakest behaviours.  Much of what has made America an economic behemoth is entirely because they were able use and abuse the Natives, then Blacks and so on.  Plenty of people are alive from a generation that wasnít a million miles from South Africaís viewpoint before Mandela.  While it improves with each passing generation, it has not gone away, and is deep routed in some places.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 17:21:36
Do you think the police or public were any different under Obama's tenure?

I doubt they were any different.

Which only makes it even more necessary to turn the whole fucking system over.

Your whatabouttery makes me think you are making assumptions about my position politically. I have no sides in this politically. Trump is a cunt but that doesn't mean the rest of them are OK. (Better, but still not OK)



Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: RobertT on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 17:24:25
Do you think the police or public were any different under Obama's tenure?

No, which is the point.  Itís deep in the culture still.  By the way, Trump is merely a match, the kindling has been there for a long time.  The very nature of the Govt here means it canít nor will it be accepted as being the instigator of change.  America is ruled by big corporations and Churches.

I say all that as someone loving living here.  It has big faults, but much to admire as well.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: RobertT on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 17:26:41
I also donít really have much of an idea how to fix the bigger problems.  Trump is clearly not helping.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 17:45:15
Hard core Constitutionalists will delight in telling you how it is not a Democracy and it is in fact a great experiment designed to limit the excesses of Government and empower the individual
Well that's going well. As to the first part, I don't think you have to be a constitutional nerd to recognise the US is no longer a functioning democracy


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Valid Pint on Thursday, June 4, 2020, 07:01:06
I suggest a reference to Tariq Jahan should be made.
Curtis Hayes has tried his version.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, June 4, 2020, 12:40:41
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1268355387742445570.html


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Thursday, June 4, 2020, 13:43:51
Trump's former Defence Secretary, Gen James Mattis has spoken out in support of protestors and denounced Trump as a threat to the constitution. It's a powerful read

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/james-mattis-denounces-trump-protests-militarization/612640/



Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, June 5, 2020, 14:08:50
Tripped & fell.....

https://twitter.com/PhillyD/status/1268727223923535872?s=20


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Friday, June 5, 2020, 14:33:12
Tripped & fell.....

https://twitter.com/PhillyD/status/1268727223923535872?s=20
Just a couple of bad apples. And about 50 more bad apples that watched it happen and did nothing. And an entire police command that thought they could get away with lying about it. So pretty much a whole dept of bad apples then

https://twitter.com/lookingforkb/status/1268771830808150021


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Friday, June 5, 2020, 16:35:06
Fucking hell

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-george-floyd-press-conference-today-job-numbers-a9551426.html

https://twitter.com/vladduthiersCBS/status/1268920235706458113


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, June 5, 2020, 16:40:40
Fucking hell

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-george-floyd-press-conference-today-job-numbers-a9551426.html

https://twitter.com/vladduthiersCBS/status/1268920235706458113

The president has said that protests following the killing of Mr Floyd have "dishonoured" his memory, while he has threatened protesters with violence and his re-election campaign has used footage of memorials and other demonstrations for a video titled "Healing, Not Hatred". That video was removed by Twitter following a copyright-infringement claim.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Richie Wellen-Dowd on Friday, June 5, 2020, 19:23:02
https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1266751520055459847?s=19 (https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1266751520055459847?s=19)

300+ examples of police brutality in the US protests.

It needs something bigger for this to change. I don't know what, only that it needs to be bigger.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Friday, June 5, 2020, 20:49:17
Tripped & fell.....

https://twitter.com/PhillyD/status/1268727223923535872?s=20
The two scumbags who did this (pushed and punched a 75-year old man to the floor, leaving him lying in a pool of blood from a severe head injury) have been suspended from the force. The response of their colleagues in the "Emergency Response Team"? They have all resigned from the ERT en masse in a show of support of the two suspended thugs. It's not just a few bad apples, this is systemic in some - all too many - US police forces.

https://twitter.com/DaveGreber4/status/1268977512320819203


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Friday, June 5, 2020, 20:59:04
I originally read that as they resigned in support of 'the protestors'.

Rereading it made me do a double take.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Friday, June 5, 2020, 21:02:55
The two scumbags who did this (pushed and punched a 75-year old man to the floor, leaving him lying in a pool of blood from a severe head injury) have been suspended from the force. The response of their colleagues in the "Emergency Response Team"? They have all resigned from the ERT en masse in a show of support. It's not just a few bad apples, this is systemic in some - all too many - US police forces.

https://twitter.com/DaveGreber4/status/1268977512320819203


It only reinforces what I have been saying earlier.

Burn it down --- literally. With fire.

Just leave the small businesses and innocent people out of it.

Obviously I would choose a better solution if there was one. But until somebody does come up with a better solution that it's petrol and matches all the way.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Friday, June 5, 2020, 21:15:16
I originally read that as they resigned in support of 'the protestors'.

Rereading it made me do a double take.
Sorry, edited it to make it clearer. Absolutely astonishing isn't it? And so brazen. This, and the brazen beatings in front of cameras, including beating TV reporters holding those cameras, is the behaviour of a gang of thugs that is used to getting away with murder. Literally


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: bennett on Saturday, June 6, 2020, 08:45:29
Those poor officers were "simply following orders"...

Nuremburg trials are not a good thing to reference lads, you need to hide it a bit better
https://buffalonews.com/2020/06/05/57-members-of-buffalo-police-riot-response-team-resign/


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: RobertT on Thursday, June 11, 2020, 19:13:34
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/11/us/tulsa-police-handcuff-teenagers-jaywalking/index.html

I doubt this happens every day, but they really know how to help their own cause.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Ardiles on Thursday, June 11, 2020, 19:23:53
I've just had to look up what 'jaywalking' is.  Land of the Free...seriously?!   ;D


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Abrahammer on Thursday, June 11, 2020, 21:02:09
Itís a law in plenty of others countries as well


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: StfcRusty on Thursday, June 11, 2020, 22:40:37
But not one you get hand-cuffed and pushed to the floor for committing in most countries...


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Richie Wellen-Dowd on Friday, June 12, 2020, 22:02:23
https://youtu.be/3tR6mKcBbT4 (https://youtu.be/3tR6mKcBbT4)

A friend of mine unfortunately shared the Candace Owen's video referenced by Chappelle, without really understanding what he was sharing. It did amuse me to hear him rip into her after she was praising him the other day.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Saturday, June 13, 2020, 03:46:50
Trump explaining veterans health care

"Sometimes you'll see a building it costs less money than another building that costs more because the one that built the one that costs more, this one looks better, the one that's cheaper, it looks better."

He continued: "They say, 'how much more did you spend for that building?' Actually we spent less. You can do that, it's called: You have to know what you're doing. If you know what you're doing."



Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: RobertT on Saturday, June 13, 2020, 19:57:42
The subject of bias in the U.K. TV news has been discussed recently.  It could be worse, Fox News just got caught ďphotoshoppingĒ an armed individual into multiple images to sit alongside their story about a part of Seattle that has declared itself autonomous.  The original photo is real, but they just took that image and popped it into lots of others to make it look like armed nutters were running the show.  The reality is the guy in question is actually a second amendment activist.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Sunday, June 14, 2020, 08:33:35
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/inspiring-story-of-seattle-mans-coronavirus-survival-comes-with-a-1-1-million-dollar-hospital-bill/


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: suttonred on Sunday, June 14, 2020, 09:01:53
Jeez $10000 per night for the room! That's why Parliament should be burned If any sort of deal with the NHS is concocted.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, June 15, 2020, 11:06:38
Fucking hell (its not a nice watch).

https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1272177941519257600?s=20


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: StfcRusty on Monday, June 15, 2020, 12:02:30
Fucking hell (its not a nice watch).

https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1272177941519257600?s=20

That is so disturbing.  What possible justification is there for that? It was an execution.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Batch on Monday, June 15, 2020, 12:23:02
the only explanation I can think of was that they thought he had a weapon and when he sat up they thought he was going for it.

No I don't see how that explanation could possibly be from that footage either. Was just wracking my brains to try and make sense of it and it's all I could come up (like Justine Damond)


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Tails on Monday, June 15, 2020, 12:42:56
the only explanation I can think of was that they thought he had a weapon and when he sat up they thought he was going for it.

No I don't see how that explanation could possibly be from that footage either. Was just wracking my brains to try and make sense of it and it's all I could come up (like Justine Damond)

I still don't get why that means you need to execute them. It's a really strange thing and over there they think it's completely normal. I also read comments on that that said "well he disobeyed the police!" like it is worth of capital punishment.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Simon Pieman on Monday, June 15, 2020, 12:50:58
He was pointing and waving what looked to be a handgun at passers-by, cocking the action etc. What he was reaching for was a BB replica gun.

Still, it doesn't excuse the fact that it was a feeble attempt to de-escalate the situation.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Batch on Monday, June 15, 2020, 13:02:19
shoot first 'policy', it's a different culture entirely.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: StfcRusty on Monday, June 15, 2020, 13:19:37
He was pointing and waving what looked to be a handgun at passers-by, cocking the action etc. What he was reaching for was a BB replica gun.

Still, it doesn't excuse the fact that it was a feeble attempt to de-escalate the situation.

A lot of the lockdown protestors had serious weaponry (looked like AK47s) when they were gathered en masse in public, thatís what I donít get. Why does one situation spark one very aggressive response whilst the other is passively observed. I


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: 4D on Monday, June 15, 2020, 13:44:19
I don't get it either


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Monday, June 15, 2020, 14:08:00
A lot of the lockdown protestors had serious weaponry (looked like AK47s) when they were gathered en masse in public, thatís what I donít get. Why does one situation spark one very aggressive response whilst the other is passively observed. I
Numbers. 5 of them, heavily armed, can be pretty confident they can shoot one guy and it won't escalate further. But taking on 100-odd heavily armed militia nutjobs you're going to have to go prepared for a small war. You're risking massive casualties on both sides, not to mention any innocent members of the public (inc state senators in the invasion of the Michigan Capitol) who get caught in the crossfire.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Monday, June 15, 2020, 14:10:06
Meanwhile in Seattle, cops thought it was good idea to mace a 7 year old kid who was standing peacefully with his, also peaceful, family. No reason, no explanation, no apology, didn't even try to help the kid as he screamed in pain. Wonder if that child will grow up thinking the police are there to help him?


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: donkey on Monday, June 15, 2020, 17:34:17
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/fox-news-monty-python-joke-seattle-protests-a9565506.html


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: RobertT on Monday, June 15, 2020, 19:06:49
It's a gift that keeps on giving


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 11:15:16
Meanwhile in Seattle, cops thought it was good idea to mace a 7 year old kid who was standing peacefully with his, also peaceful, family. No reason, no explanation, no apology, didn't even try to help the kid as he screamed in pain. Wonder if that child will grow up thinking the police are there to help him?

You missed the bit where they nicked the bloke who filmed them doing it.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/15/outrage-video-police-mace-child-seattle-protest


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 11:36:09
You missed the bit where they nicked the bloke who filmed them doing it.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/15/outrage-video-police-mace-child-seattle-protest
Bloody hell. Some of these police forces do seem to act more like an occupying army than public servants


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Peter Venkman on Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 11:50:41
If America could see the injustice inflicted on Americans by America it would invade America.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 12:33:49
If America could see the injustice inflicted on Americans by America it would invade America.
Judging from the behaviour of Minneapolis PD, NYPD and Seattle PD* I think they think that is exactly what they have done and that they are the occupying army!


*(other brutal police forces also available in some localities)


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 13:48:18
If America could see the injustice inflicted on Americans by America it would invade America.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcuPL8n9I0g


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Valid Pint on Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 15:48:20
I worked in a shop that had a window display for that album. A passer-by complained to the manager, & we had to take the display down. I think the complaint was about the nudity rather than the title. I took the window display home anyway.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 16:31:50
Trump thinks that if the US stopped testing right now, they'd have very few COVID cases, if any

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/502819-trump-on-coronavirus-if-we-stop-testing-right-now-wed-have-very-few-cases

This is like my dog "hiding" behind a bush with his whole body sticking out because he thinks if he can't see me, I can't see him. Except my dog would do a better job of being President.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: RobertT on Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 17:35:57
He's rambling on at the moment, supposedly to launch some Executive Orders relating to Police reform (in reality he has little power to do anything on that front), but he's barely mentioned the issues facing the Nation on that front.  INstead he's gone off on one about Coronovirus, the economy, Police doing a great job on 9/11 and essentially patting himself on the back as much as he can manage while using as few words as possible (his vocab when off script is stunningly poor).

I am hoping Biden beats him in November, not that I rate Biden at all, but at least things will be quieter.

Oh, and the self appointed Militia sparked a fight and some gun shots in New Mexico last night - at least in the UK you get people pissing up against a wall while missing with air kicks and giving it large, imagine them with guns!


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: RobertT on Thursday, June 25, 2020, 21:23:32
https://www.foxnews.com/us/north-carolina-police-officers-fired-racist-rant-slaughter-black-people-civil-war

It's OK, it's not systemic or anything.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Friday, July 17, 2020, 15:33:23
Meanwhile, in Portland, federal officers in military uniforms but with no insignia and no ID are driving around in unmarked vans attacking and abducting protesters from the streets, separate from and refusing to work with local law enforcement. I say "federal officers" as the US Marshalls, the Dept of Homeland Security and other federal agenices have admitted being involved, but given they don't have insginia/ID and are refusing to identify themselves, who knows? They could be private militias or just armed gangs that Trump has deputised? No ID, no reason given for "arrests", no due process, no legal recourse for those abducted in this way. This is actual fascism.

https://www.newsandguts.com/video/portland-federal-officials-use-unmarked-vehicles-to-detain-protesters/

https://www.opb.org/news/article/federal-law-enforcement-unmarked-vehicles-portland-protesters/


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Friday, July 17, 2020, 15:46:16
That's scary.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Friday, July 17, 2020, 17:53:24
Meanwhile, in Portland, federal officers in military uniforms but with no insignia and no ID are driving around in unmarked vans attacking and abducting protesters from the streets, separate from and refusing to work with local law enforcement. I say "federal officers" as the US Marshalls, the Dept of Homeland Security and other federal agenices have admitted being involved, but given they don't have insginia/ID and are refusing to identify themselves, who knows? They could be private militias or just armed gangs that Trump has deputised? No ID, no reason given for "arrests", no due process, no legal recourse for those abducted in this way. This is actual fascism.

https://www.newsandguts.com/video/portland-federal-officials-use-unmarked-vehicles-to-detain-protesters/

https://www.opb.org/news/article/federal-law-enforcement-unmarked-vehicles-portland-protesters/

Meanwhile in China:

https://twitter.com/PDog119/status/1283359233866637314

(Drone footage of Uighurs bound and blindfolded being deported on trains to concentration camps)

The first post is how it starts, this is how it progresses. We all know how it ends


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Ginginho on Friday, July 17, 2020, 18:17:13
Organ harvesting going on too apparently. Jesus. A horendous country.
https://www.businessinsider.com/china-harvesting-organs-of-uighur-muslims-china-tribunal-tells-un-2019-9?r=US&IR=T


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 10:02:20
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53481537


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: RobertT on Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 14:22:03
I think the AG was talking about dropping the case, I very much doubt it goes far in that State.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Wednesday, July 22, 2020, 22:16:11
Trump's getting proper scary now.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: bamboonoshop on Wednesday, July 22, 2020, 23:11:17
Trump's getting proper scary now.

When has he ever been anything else (other than a constant cunt) than that?


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Bob's Orange on Thursday, July 23, 2020, 09:50:54
Trump's getting proper scary now.

What has he done now?


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, July 23, 2020, 10:37:49
What has he done now?

He kept repeating person, woman, man, camera, TV during an interview...

Thing is this test that he keeps banging on about like it proves he is some sort of genius is actually the test they give to see if you have dementia, my mum had to have it to prove her mental faculties to sign a legal document, she passed and she did have dementia and died shortly afterwards.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Thursday, July 23, 2020, 10:40:46
What has he done now?
Suspect it refers to this
Meanwhile, in Portland, federal officers in military uniforms but with no insignia and no ID are driving around in unmarked vans attacking and abducting protesters from the streets, separate from and refusing to work with local law enforcement. I say "federal officers" as the US Marshalls, the Dept of Homeland Security and other federal agenices have admitted being involved, but given they don't have insginia/ID and are refusing to identify themselves, who knows? They could be private militias or just armed gangs that Trump has deputised? No ID, no reason given for "arrests", no due process, no legal recourse for those abducted in this way. This is actual fascism.

https://www.newsandguts.com/video/portland-federal-officials-use-unmarked-vehicles-to-detain-protesters/

https://www.opb.org/news/article/federal-law-enforcement-unmarked-vehicles-portland-protesters/

being extended to Chicago, Kansas City, Albequerque and other US cities. As widely predicted, Portland was just a test run for widespread deployment of paramilitary federal officers on the streets of US cities, kidnapping and attacking protestors. This is, btw, a massive violation of the US constitution as well as being just obviously massively authoritarian.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Thursday, July 23, 2020, 11:05:52
The Portland mayor has already demanded the federal troops leave. How long before before there is a stand-off between state and federal forces?


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Thursday, July 23, 2020, 11:18:53
He's also been labelling opposition politicians as extremists.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Thursday, July 23, 2020, 11:25:16
He's also been labelling opposition politicians as extremists.
And the long-standing vilification of the media and courts. All standard tactics from the dictator's playbook.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Thursday, July 23, 2020, 11:26:04
Also.

Where are all the gun nuts that claim they want their guns for protection against a tyrannous government? It's happening now. Literally. This is your fucking moment. You only have one fucking job.

A cynic might think it was just a weak excuse all along.



Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Thursday, July 23, 2020, 11:34:24
Also.

Where are all the gun nuts that claim they want their guns for protection against a tyrannous government? It's happening now. Literally. This is your fucking moment. You only have one fucking job.

A cynic might think it was just a weak excuse all along.


I saw one of the usual "ProTrump MAGA 2nd Amendment" suspects commenting on a thread on Twitter re the Portland deployments and saying "This is why we need the 2nd Amendment to keep our gun rights". So I asked him if he was heading down to Portland to use his right to bear arms to defend the protestors against a tyrannous govt. He didn't reply and blocked me. So looks like it as a penis substitute all the time


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: RobertT on Friday, July 24, 2020, 16:10:23
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvxj5gWah_E&feature=emb_rel_end

I'll miss him when he's gone


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Friday, July 24, 2020, 16:29:59
When Trump loses the election *touches wood*, she could do Boris instead.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, July 24, 2020, 16:57:04
https://twitter.com/MelissaStetten/status/1286544779338162176?s=20


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Tuesday, August 4, 2020, 08:20:28
Trump bragging to an interviewer that Ameria has better covid stats than 'the world'.

And that wasn't even the worst part of the interview, it's just the easiest to write down.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, August 4, 2020, 08:22:36
Trump bragging to an interviewer that Ameria has better covid stats than 'the world'.

And that wasn't even the worst part of the interview, it's just the easiest to write down.
"We're lower than the world"

Yes, yes, you are.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: RWB Robin on Tuesday, August 4, 2020, 12:44:54
Read Sinclair Lewis' novel 'It Can't Happen Here', from the 1930s.  It is happening.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: RobertT on Tuesday, August 4, 2020, 13:44:15
Trump bragging to an interviewer that Ameria has better covid stats than 'the world'.

And that wasn't even the worst part of the interview, it's just the easiest to write down.

The guy still thinks this is a game, believing that testing less would give them lower "numbers".


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: RobertT on Tuesday, August 4, 2020, 16:58:37
https://www.wnky.com/caught-on-camera-colorado-police-handcuff-kids/

Smart cookies these Police officers.  Once you get past the fact they felt the need to have guns drawn and continued to the point of cuffing some young kids coming out of a a family style SUV, you get to the crunch - the stolen vehicle they were seeking was in fact a fucking motorcycle!  If ever there was an example of why Police reform may be needed................


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Tuesday, August 11, 2020, 09:21:22
Today I learned, from Donald Trump, that the 1917 pandemic ended WWII. It was killing al the soldiers, apparently.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Nomoreheroes on Tuesday, August 11, 2020, 09:28:04
https://www.wnky.com/caught-on-camera-colorado-police-handcuff-kids/

Smart cookies these Police officers.  Once you get past the fact they felt the need to have guns drawn and continued to the point of cuffing some young kids coming out of a a family style SUV, you get to the crunch - the stolen vehicle they were seeking was in fact a fucking motorcycle!  If ever there was an example of why Police reform may be needed................
Brings back memories - I used to live near there and recognised the place before they panned to the street signs.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, August 11, 2020, 09:28:25
Today I learned, from Donald Trump, that the 1917 pandemic ended WWII. It was killing al the soldiers, apparently.

Is he referring to Spanish Flu, wasn't that 1918-20?


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Tuesday, August 11, 2020, 09:31:46
Is he referring to Spanish Flu, wasn't that 1918-20?

I suppose he would be. It's a convolution of errors packed into one small sentence. There has also not been any pandemic that has ended a war, as far as I'm aware.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: RobertT on Tuesday, August 11, 2020, 13:30:06
He's been at it for a while:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-trumps-washington/trump-and-the-1917-pandemic-that-wasnt


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Abrahammer on Wednesday, August 12, 2020, 09:18:48
With the VP pick of Harris that probably means Biden would only serve 1 term if he gets in.

They are clearly confident of victory when the VP choice comes from a state they will already win easily


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: donkey on Wednesday, August 12, 2020, 10:54:26
With the VP pick of Harris that probably means Biden would only serve 1 term if he gets in.

They are clearly confident of victory when the VP choice comes from a state they will already win easily

Both Northerners which is pretty rare.  The Civil War still looms .


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, August 12, 2020, 11:43:01
With the VP pick of Harris that probably means Biden would only serve 1 term if he gets in.

They are clearly confident of victory when the VP choice comes from a state they will already win easily
I read somewhere the other day (think it was NYT) that using a VP from a battleground state/region to garner votes there hasn't actually been a thing since the 60s. They had a list of both Republican and Democrat VP candidates from the 80s, 90s and beyond who were all from "safe" areas for their respective parties.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: RobertT on Wednesday, August 12, 2020, 14:10:06
They usually pick someone to shore up the other side of the party vote - like a Sarah Palin, which worked wonders.  In this case, I think Harris seals a large wedge of the voters who can be a bit, meh, when it comes to turnout - Suburban women and minorities.  Both are majority on Biden's side in polling, but both are less than reliable in actually voting, which will be critical given a Pandemic will over shadow the vote.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: 4D on Wednesday, August 12, 2020, 20:18:37
It's quite refreshing to see a country that loves it's politicians.  :)


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: 4D on Thursday, August 13, 2020, 08:10:50
 :D

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53761744


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Barry Scott on Thursday, August 13, 2020, 09:23:53
:D

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53761744

Insane.

https://twitter.com/sarahcpr/status/1271650828785455104


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Thursday, August 13, 2020, 15:37:04
Trump now openly admitting he is attempting to deliberately suppress the postal vote by abusing his power to defund the US Postal Service - i.e. blatant election rigging. When people ask "How did this happen?" it happens in plain sight because people think "It couldn't happen here" and let it slide

https://twitter.com/HKrassenstein/status/1293896714915643392


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: bennett on Thursday, August 13, 2020, 15:47:52
I'm not sure he knows what he meant with that


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Thursday, August 13, 2020, 15:51:43
I'm not sure he knows what he meant with that
I think he's extremely clear: the US Postal service needs c $3bn to enable postal voting to take place; he knows postal voting will allow more disadvantaged voters to vote safely, esp during a pandemic; so he's going to withhold the funds in order to suppress the vote. It's simple outright blatant election rigging


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Thursday, August 13, 2020, 16:13:36
He's also ramping up the 'voting fraud' rhetoric ahead of when he (likely) loses; trying to deligitamise the vote in the eyes of his supporters. It's going to get messy if/when he loses. He's not going to go easy and he has a lot of gun-toting rednecks behind him.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Costanza on Thursday, August 13, 2020, 17:10:26
I vaguely recall Trump making excuses in the build-up to the last election.

It's going to be an interesting election. He'll get plenty of votes.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: RobertT on Thursday, August 13, 2020, 17:24:05
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53742684

Sorry, I know there are real people impacted by this, but it is kind of ironic and funny.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Thursday, August 20, 2020, 15:32:26
Trump's white nationalist (that's Nazi in old-speak) campaign manager and friend of Farage and Cummings, Steve Bannon, has been arrested on suspicion of massive fraud. Is there anyone connected to Trump who isn't either a criminal or a Russian asset (or both)?


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: RobertT on Thursday, August 20, 2020, 15:51:25
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/steve-bannon-among-4-arrested-indicted-in-online-fundraising-scheme-doj-announces

Create a Cult, shake down the cult for every penny possible.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, August 20, 2020, 15:54:27
Trump's white nationalist (that's Nazi in old-speak) campaign manager and friend of Farage and Cummings, Steve Bannon, has been arrested on suspicion of massive fraud. Is there anyone connected to Trump who isn't either a criminal or a Russian asset (or both)?

I asked the same question elsewhere and apparently there is one campaign manager who to date has not been indicted for anything, although I cannot vouch for Russian ties.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/steve-bannon-among-4-arrested-indicted-in-online-fundraising-scheme-doj-announces

Create a Cult, shake down the cult for every penny possible.

Indeed, sadly many of them who paid cash would probably respond again if a fund was launched to fund his legal fees.

TBF its little different to Farage and Brexit Party Ltd.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Thursday, August 20, 2020, 16:06:51
I asked the same question elsewhere and apparently there is one campaign manager who to date has not been indicted for anything, although I cannot vouch for Russian ties.

Indeed, sadly many of them who paid cash would probably respond again if a fund was launched to fund his legal fees.
Of course, as Yaxley-Lennon ("Tommy Robinson") has demonstrated with his continued milking of his followers, funding his £1m mansion in Beds, his villa in Spain and his ongoing subsidy of various Columbian export enterprises.

TBF its little different to Farage and Brexit Party Ltd.
Well, there's a reason for that. They're all part of the same network.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: RobertT on Thursday, August 20, 2020, 16:16:06
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/20/politics/bannon-indictment/index.html

It doesn't look good for them - In summary, they funneled around $1.5m out of the "Charity" and moved it around before sending it back to themselves and sent text messages to each other providing an evidence trail!


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, August 20, 2020, 16:40:22
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/20/politics/bannon-indictment/index.html

It doesn't look good for them - In summary, they funneled around $1.5m out of the "Charity" and moved it around before sending it back to themselves and sent text messages to each other providing an evidence trail!

I suspect, much like Al Capone (hopefully on both sides of the Atlantic) its going to be something financial and small that brings the cards crashing down!


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Friday, August 21, 2020, 10:07:05
I suspect, much like Al Capone (hopefully on both sides of the Atlantic) its going to be something financial and small that brings the cards crashing down!
At least on that side of the Atlantic they do get arrested, even if Trump pardons them. Over here, Jenrick's been caught red-handed taking bribes and didn't even apologise, much less get his collar felt. Leaving aside the clear corruption of the PPE contracts and all the cash Gove's handing out to his mates.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: bamboonoshop on Friday, August 21, 2020, 13:04:18
This fred in name, just makes me think of the Razorlight tune. When Borrell wrote that simple but effective chorus, he nailed the epitome of world media regarding the USA (and several other countries). Lyrically accurate as fuck.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Richie Wellen-Dowd on Monday, August 24, 2020, 07:38:23
Horrific video doing the rounds this morning of another black man being murdered in front of his wife and kids. Jesus.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: 4D on Monday, August 24, 2020, 09:15:33
Are you talking about the Wisconsin shooting? The guy's in hospital, in a serious condition.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Bob's Orange on Monday, August 24, 2020, 09:21:49
Are you talking about the Wisconsin shooting? The guy's in hospital, in a serious condition.

There is a video of that on the BBC. Why not use Tasers in those situations?


Title: 'Murica
Post by: Batch on Monday, August 24, 2020, 10:41:58
there's no context with the video.

it looks like the police just shot him in the back as he got in the car.

but it's possible he said "I'm going to kill you" before walking back to the car

I'm not victim blaming, and yes you'd think a taser would take him out either way.

If it is like it looks,  it's attempted manslaughter.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Monday, August 24, 2020, 10:45:19
They appear to have terrible training all round. About the only thing they do seem proficient at is aiming and shooting.

Although, and I'm not trying to make excuses for them, it's probably harder for them considering there's a good chance the other guy has a gun as well.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Bob's Orange on Monday, August 24, 2020, 10:55:10
there's no context with the video.

it looks like the police just shot him in the back as he got in the car.

but it's possible he said "I'm going to kill you" before walking back to the car

I'm not victim blaming, and yes you'd think a taser would take him out either way.

If it is like it looks,  it's attempted manslaughter.

Great point Batch, with limited context its very tough to know whether what the police did was justified (although looks highly unlikely)


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Panda Paws on Monday, August 24, 2020, 12:06:53
there's no context with the video.

it looks like the police just shot him in the back as he got in the car.

but it's possible he said "I'm going to kill you" before walking back to the car

I'm not victim blaming, and yes you'd think a taser would take him out either way.

If it is like it looks,  it's attempted manslaughter.

Haven't seen the video and don't know the context, but how can shooting someone be attempted manslaughter, rather than murder?


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Monday, August 24, 2020, 12:12:17
If he survives, then it's attempted whatever.

Either way, for it to be murder or attempted murder, they'd have to be able to prove the intention was to kill him - which can be very hard to do.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Batch on Monday, August 24, 2020, 12:49:00
^^^

yes probably not the legal right term . but murder, at least in this country. is premeditated

I can't believe they went out to kill a black person when their shift started.

was just trying to distinguish between what they did and murder.

you can drop the attempted if he's died, and insert whatever term you like


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: RobertT on Monday, August 24, 2020, 13:03:38
If he survives, then it's attempted whatever.

Either way, for it to be murder or attempted murder, they'd have to be able to prove the intention was to kill him - which can be very hard to do.

Yep, I think there are grades of offence as well.  Certainly very few Police Officers get convicted of murder if shooting someone in the line of duty.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: JBZ on Monday, August 24, 2020, 18:26:40
If he survives, then it's attempted whatever.

Either way, for it to be murder or attempted murder, they'd have to be able to prove the intention was to kill him - which can be very hard to do.

It should be noted that in England and Wales, murder involves the intention to kill or cause grievous bodily harm. Not sure if the position is similar in the US.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: tans on Monday, August 24, 2020, 18:32:48
It should be noted that in England and Wales, murder involves the intention to kill or cause grievous bodily harm. Not sure if the position is similar in the US.

First-degree murder
Any intentional murder that is willful and premeditated with malice aforethought. Felony murder, a charge that may be filed against a defendant who is involved in a dangerous crime where a death results from the crime,[12] is typically first-degree.[13]

Second-degree murder
Any intentional murder with malice aforethought, but is not premeditated or planned in advance.[14]

Voluntary manslaughter
Sometimes called a crime of passion murder, is any intentional killing that involves no prior intent to kill, and which was committed under such circumstances that would "cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed". Both this and second-degree murder are committed on the spot under a spur-of-the-moment choice, but the two differ in the magnitude of the circumstances surrounding the crime. For example, a bar fight that results in death would ordinarily constitute second-degree murder. If that same bar fight stemmed from a discovery of infidelity, however, it may be voluntary manslaughter.[15]

Involuntary manslaughter
A killing that stems from a lack of intention to cause death but involving an intentional or negligent act leading to death. A drunk drivingĖrelated death is typically involuntary manslaughter (see also vehicular homicide, causing death by dangerous driving, gross negligence manslaughter and causing death by criminal negligence for international equivalents). Note that the "unintentional" element here refers to the lack of intent to bring about the death. All three crimes above feature an intent to kill, whereas involuntary manslaughter is "unintentional", because the killer did not intend for a death to result from their intentional actions. If there is a presence of intention it relates only to the intent to cause a violent act which brings about the death, but not an intention to bring about the death itself.[16]


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Richie Wellen-Dowd on Monday, August 24, 2020, 18:42:33
Are you talking about the Wisconsin shooting? The guy's in hospital, in a serious condition.

My mistake, I read this morning that he had died. Amazed he didn't to be honest.

there's no context with the video.

it looks like the police just shot him in the back as he got in the car.

but it's possible he said "I'm going to kill you" before walking back to the car

If he said anything threatening he should have been face first in the bonnet or tarmac, not followed around the car and allowed to open the door and reach in if that was going to be perceived as a threat. Especially a threat that was deemed to require lethal force.

They appear to have terrible training all round. About the only thing they do seem proficient at is aiming and shooting.

Although, and I'm not trying to make excuses for them, it's probably harder for them considering there's a good chance the other guy has a gun as well.

I completely get this and there have been instances where lack of training or just not being up to the task have played a part, the Michael Brown shooting I think could be one. Shooting someone seven times in the back because you think they may be reaching for a weapon is beyond any such explanation in my opinion.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Friday, August 28, 2020, 18:05:13
The bloke they shot recently, paralyzing him (I can't keep up with their names).

They've handcuffed him to his hospital bed. The same hospital bed he's laying in... because he's paralyzed.

'Murica.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Batch on Friday, August 28, 2020, 18:19:22
fucking hell!

has anyone read anything to say why the officer actress like that?


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, August 28, 2020, 18:37:26
Also being noted that the white militia guy (sorry bullied teenager according to The Times https://twitter.com/alex_tea/status/1299281555270107137?s=19 ) who shot two protesters dead did so in front of the police and no action taken initially, yet a unarmed black guy walking away towards his car got shot 7 times in the back and paralysed....


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, September 3, 2020, 09:57:35
At what stage is someone going to have a quiet word with the police and suggest they perhaps exercise a bit of caution, at least for a while?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54007884


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Thursday, September 3, 2020, 10:51:01
At what stage is someone going to have a quiet word with the police and suggest they perhaps exercise a bit of caution, at least for a while?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54007884
They're not. That's the whole point, Trump is doing the exact opposite, telling them to carry on and labelling anyone who thinks ooh, maybe steady up a bit, as far left, antifa etc etc. If anything all the messaging coming from the US govt is not just carry on, but "double down" as that horrid American expression has it


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Thursday, September 3, 2020, 10:52:14
And in other news, I see Trump has been calling for his supporters to (illegally) vote twice to "test the system".


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Batch on Thursday, September 3, 2020, 11:14:19
Quote from: horlock07
At what stage is someone going to have a quiet word with the police and suggest they perhaps exercise a bit of caution, at least for a while?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54007884 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54007884)

but they could have followed procedures by the book


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, September 3, 2020, 12:03:05
but they could have followed procedures by the book

No idea, way outside my area of expertise, but unless a spit hood is designed to kill the person its being used on, not sure how they can have followed procedures?

From that piece 'The Metropolitan Police says its medically supervised tests have found "spit hoods" present no risk to a suspect's breathing.'


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, September 15, 2020, 10:28:10
Gets evermore like 1930's Germany...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/14/ice-detainees-hysterectomies-medical-neglect-irwin-georgia


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, September 15, 2020, 11:31:28
Meanwhile Trump has pulled an election ad calling on patriotic Americans to vote for him to "support our troops" using photos of MiG-29 fighters and troops carring AK-47s. Temporarily forgot he's not supposed to let people know he's a Russian asset.

EDIT: and here it is

(https://static.politico.com/dims4/default/46580b5/2147483647/resize/600x/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2F29%2F57%2Ff565fbc34594a6ec79b4e84f7112%2Fad.JPG)


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: bamboonoshop on Tuesday, September 15, 2020, 11:37:25
I always find it odd that in the "West" supporting your armies and government, pictured with soldiers holding guns either side of a flag is accepted as supporting "patriotism", yet when that's done in the "East"... :hmmm:

There's a meme for this somewhere.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, September 15, 2020, 11:43:35
I always find it odd that in the "West" supporting your armies and government, pictured with soldiers holding guns either side of a flag is accepted as supporting "patriotism", yet when that's done in the "East"... :hmmm:

There's a meme for this somewhere.


Its much the same as the grey area when 'freedom fighters' become 'terrorists'.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: bamboonoshop on Tuesday, September 15, 2020, 12:02:47
Yes, also the long term perception-led-by-government (and institution) that we have always been on the "good" side. When really, we've been on the "bad" side. It's more in very recent times, because of WWII that we were seen as the lesser of two evils.

I still hold the belief that the UK has only got involved in things where we hold vested interests (fuels mostly) or want to retain our control. We, along with several other countries really are a just a big bunch of bullying fuckers. Except the UK is being rather childish about it all now and they're trying to take their ball home with them.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Friday, September 18, 2020, 21:56:18
I saw this linked an I thought... 'Nah'

But I checked, and, yeah. It is genuine.

(https://i.imgur.com/2zzPeJZ.png)


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: 4D on Friday, September 18, 2020, 22:55:38
WTAF?


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: 4D on Friday, September 18, 2020, 23:00:20
Nuff said

https://youtu.be/r8pnec4Hxps


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: bamboonoshop on Friday, September 18, 2020, 23:55:15
What is his "executing babies after birth" bit all about. Is Trump telling us that he (Trump) is an  anti-vaxer? Because that would answer a lot regarding his fuckwittery!

Mind he supports one injection but that was Dettol so I'm disregarding it as pro-vaccination.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Saturday, September 19, 2020, 00:08:08
What is his "executing babies after birth" bit all about. Is Trump telling us that he (Trump) is an  anti-vaxer? Because that would answer a lot regarding his fuckwittery!

Mind he supports one injection but that was Dettol so I'm disregarding it as pro-vaccination.

He means it literally.

He's appealing to the 'pro-lifer' sect (Which is a rather large sect)


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: bamboonoshop on Saturday, September 19, 2020, 00:17:48
He means it literally.

He's appealing to the 'pro-lifer' sect (Which is a rather large sect)

Madness, I get the pro-lifer element but surely (we live in an incredibly wonky and wanky world currently) no one is stupid enough to believe that?! It's like a game to see which world leader can say the most absurd thing and still get away with it.

This week on 300: A Spartan Story, Delusional Donald is convinced the Virginia Governor is throwing babies into the death pit of Perori.  ::)


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Wednesday, September 23, 2020, 19:43:04
The Breonna Taylor case.

Of the 3 coppers involved, only one has been charged. he was charged with wanton endagerment, because his shots put her neighbours in danger.

None have been laid with a single charge over the death of Breonna Taylor herself. Nada.

Murica'.

It'll be kicking off again tonight no doubt.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Batch on Wednesday, September 23, 2020, 19:45:02
while I don't agree with it, could it have been part of the settlement with the family that those charges were dropped.

send unlikely/wrong


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: RobertT on Wednesday, September 23, 2020, 20:09:04
I think there were some real problems with being able to make anything stick against the Coppers given the authority on which they were acting at that time.  The settlement seems to be significant, including reforms, so maybe they've been able to leverage this ahead of the known lack of charging to get laws changed.  The individual and their family don't really get Justice, but they get to make real change - lets hope so.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, September 24, 2020, 09:22:13
I think there were some real problems with being able to make anything stick against the Coppers given the authority on which they were acting at that time.  The settlement seems to be significant, including reforms, so maybe they've been able to leverage this ahead of the known lack of charging to get laws changed.  The individual and their family don't really get Justice, but they get to make real change - lets hope so.

On a similar vein I don't think any copper was ever charged in relation to the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes, in fact the commander of the botched operation is now in charge of the Met.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Bob's Orange on Monday, September 28, 2020, 09:33:42
Donny's Taxes have been released by the NY Times. He paid $750 dollars in Income Tax in 2016 and 2017.

The guy is shadier than the middle of the amazon rain forest.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, September 28, 2020, 09:46:40
Donny's Taxes have been released by the NY Times. He paid $750 dollars in Income Tax in 2016 and 2017.

The guy is shadier than the middle of the amazon rain forest.

Its how they finally got Al Capone, fingers crossed.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Monday, September 28, 2020, 10:02:43
Donny's Taxes have been released by the NY Times. He paid $750 dollars in Income Tax in 2016 and 2017.

The guy is shadier than the middle of the amazon rain forest.
What's actually more interesting is how much debt he is in. He's personally liable for over $1bn of debt, most of it secured against a failing property empire and significant amounts of it falling due in the next couple of years. Winning the next election is an existential threat for him - he's very likely to end up bankrupt and in jail if he loses. Not so much a brilliant billionaire businessman, as a conman, a fraud and a thief.

https://twitter.com/DanAlexander21/status/1310342791336284160


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, September 28, 2020, 17:18:28
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1310584937356103686?s=20

What has always bugged me is why do centralist/left wing parties/groups  seem completely unable to use such technological systems as well as the right, be it Trump, Brexit or the Tories?


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, October 7, 2020, 17:20:47
This is superb: Trump's favourite white supremacist street gang, the Proud Boys, got trolled to shit by gay twitter because, well, Proud Boys. So instead of standing up for themselves and being proud of being Proud Boys, they've decided to change their name. To "Leathermen" :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

https://twitter.com/Ezra_Nola/status/1313805754219012097


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Red Frog on Wednesday, October 7, 2020, 17:30:05
This is superb: Trump's favourite white supremacist street gang, the Proud Boys, got trolled to shit by gay twitter because, well, Proud Boys. So instead of standing up for themselves and being proud of being Proud Boys, they've decided to change their name. To "Leathermen" :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

https://twitter.com/Ezra_Nola/status/1313805754219012097

Turns out sexuality mirrors politics - you can be so macho you tip all the way round to camp again.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Wednesday, October 7, 2020, 17:36:44
I really wish it were true. Alas, it is not. It was created by a satirical website simlar to the onion.

https://www.thebeaverton.com/2020/10/as-gay-twitter-reclaims-proudboys-hashtag-proud-boys-change-name-to-leather-men/

I hate myself for looking it up now. Sorry.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, October 7, 2020, 19:30:47
I really wish it were true. Alas, it is not. It was created by a satirical website simlar to the onion.

https://www.thebeaverton.com/2020/10/as-gay-twitter-reclaims-proudboys-hashtag-proud-boys-change-name-to-leather-men/

I hate myself for looking it up now. Sorry.
Thought it might be, but it was too good to spoil by looking it up to check #TheresAlwaysOneWhoHasToSpoilItForEveryone.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Red Frog on Wednesday, October 7, 2020, 20:40:53
My point stands.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Friday, October 9, 2020, 12:33:51
Meanwhile, in the US, armed gunmen encouraged by the President, storm the Michigan state capitol to intimidate legislators. How is this not insurrection?

https://twitter.com/DanielNewman/status/1255949280814215170?s=19
And look what happens when the President of the US encourages heavily armed gunmen to "Liberate" their state from the governor. Turns out encouraging armed militias to insurrection makes them plot acts of terrorism, including the kidnap and murder of the governor and possibly other hostages. Who could have thought it?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/six-people-charged-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer



Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Friday, October 9, 2020, 12:39:45
You can't even say it's dog whistles with trump.

Dog whistles are subtle, Trump just comes right out with it.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Ardiles on Friday, October 9, 2020, 12:54:14
I have an elderly, Trump-supporting relative over there.  His Facebook feed is quite something.  Full of God-fearing calls to prayer, and guns.  Like millions of others in the US, he sees no contradiction.

A post the other day was one of the best...a list of reasons why any 'sane' voter would run a mile from the Democrats.  And top of the list?  They kill babies.  I swear I'm not making this up.  The ignorance & complete lack of sophistication is chilling.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Bob's Orange on Friday, October 9, 2020, 14:08:34
I have an elderly, Trump-supporting relative over there.  His Facebook feed is quite something.  Full of God-fearing calls to prayer, and guns.  Like millions of others in the US, he sees no contradiction.

A post the other day was one of the best...a list of reasons why any 'sane' voter would run a mile from the Democrats.  And top of the list?  They kill babies.  I swear I'm not making this up.  The ignorance & complete lack of sophistication is chilling.

My mum and stepdad have been in the States for a while now and sadly these are exactly the posts I see from them on the very rare times I venture onto FB. I guess the brainwashing from Fox News and weird bible bashers in Florida is difficult to escape from.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: Flashheart on Friday, October 9, 2020, 14:10:12
The Fox News comments section on FB is something to behold.


Title: Re: 'Murica
Post by: pauld on Friday, October 9, 2020, 14:11:00
Well brace yourselves guys because we're on the same trajectory, just about 3 years behind them.