Lee Power, budgets and finances

[jonny72]

http://www.swindontownfc.co.uk/news/article/lindleycateringdeal-860259.aspx

Good ol' Steve Murrall.

Nowhere in that article does it suggest that the club sold all catering rights for a fixed sum, let alone a pittance.

If anything it suggests the opposite, it reads that its an agreement for Linley to provide, manage and develop the catering facilities with the club sharing in any additional revenues that it generates.

[pauld]

Nowhere in that article does it suggest that the club sold all catering rights for a fixed sum, let alone a pittance.

If anything it suggests the opposite, it reads that its an agreement for Linley to provide, manage and develop the catering facilities with the club sharing in any additional revenues that it generates.

Yeah. Although I'd suggest if you believe what JedCo say about the way they leached money out of the club, I've got a fleet of second-hand motors you might be interested in.

EDIT: Adver story at the time says the deal was "worth" £4m to Town, on the basis that we'd get £200k pa from Lindley and (allegedly) save £200k each year for 10 years. The sources for those figures, of course, being JedCo:

http://www.thisisswindontownfc.co.uk/news/headlines/10476467.UPDATED__Town_agree_new_catering_deal/?ref=rss

and repeated in this pack of wholly credible business visionaryness

http://www.thisisswindontownfc.co.uk/news/headlines/10536421.SWINDON_TOWN__Club_present_their_vision_to_businesses_and_sponsors/?ref=rss

Which is also where the same business visionaries reckoned we'd clear £1.8m from their amazing summer concert spectaculars. So I don't think it's unreasonable to take their £200k pa with a pretty massive pinch of (catered) salt. So, yeah, flogged off for a pittance but, I'd wager, with a hefty chunk of the 10 years front-loaded to the first year, nay month, of the contract.

[Wilf Shergold]

I know a few of us have put the boot into 'Muff, but on crowds of 10,000 and players on (allegedly) highish salaries, how and when does the shit the fan for them - even taking into account the Russkie.

Evidently, and I must admit I didn't realise this, if the money given to a club is exactly that, ie given, and not linked to any loan repayment or asset that can be claimed back if the 'gift' isn't repaid, it's all OK and above board. That came from an FA blazer I spoke to at a non-league game I was at recently when 'Muff, how come?, came up in conversation about Fair Play.

So as long as the Russian is happy to give, so be it, it seems. You also have to get in your head the wealth of some people. Mike Ashley sold 4% of his shares in Sports Direct earlier this year, pulled in £218m as a result and still has another 60% to sell if ever he's short of a bob or 2. So when he gives £2m to shore up Rangers, which makes the sports headlines, it hardly matters to him it's so insignificant.

[RobertT]

Ashley has loaned them the £2m, on a relatively short term as well.  He's no mug, he's dripped them cash and in return he now has influence at board level without needing to buy sufficient shares  and also has the rights to the kit sales sewn up with the SD brand.  Newcastle was riskier but again there was a lot to be gained in the long run from his huge investment.  Not least because of the sheer volume of shirt sales you get up there, much more as a % of the local population than any other team in the UK I believe.  The clubs don't need to make money, they are vehicles for his bigger business.

[jonny72]

Evidently, and I must admit I didn't realise this, if the money given to a club is exactly that, ie given, and not linked to any loan repayment or asset that can be claimed back if the 'gift' isn't repaid, it's all OK and above board. That came from an FA blazer I spoke to at a non-league game I was at recently when 'Muff, how come?, came up in conversation about Fair Play.

There is a limit to the money you can gift to a club, in the Premier League at least, not so sure about the Football League. There are always ways round it though, such as the Man City owner getting his brother to sign a massive sponsorship deal.

As regards Ashley, he's no fool - he didn't get to where he is today by saying it's only £2m, who gives a fuck.

[Flashheart]

Evidently, and I must admit I didn't realise this, if the money given to a club is exactly that, ie given, and not linked to any loan repayment or asset that can be claimed back if the 'gift' isn't repaid, it's all OK and above board. That came from an FA blazer I spoke to at a non-league game I was at recently when 'Muff, how come?, came up in conversation about Fair Play.

So as long as the Russian is happy to give, so be it, it seems. You also have to get in your head the wealth of some people. Mike Ashley sold 4% of his shares in Sports Direct earlier this year, pulled in £218m as a result and still has another 60% to sell if ever he's short of a bob or 2. So when he gives £2m to shore up Rangers, which makes the sports headlines, it hardly matters to him it's so insignificant.

I'm quite sure the Russian loans it.... with interest.

[pauld]

I'm quite sure the Russian loans it.... with interest.

He certainly loaned the initial tranche at 6-7% interest according to reports at the time. Maybe subsequent investments have been reported to the FA as being a gift, or maybe the football authorities haven't got a bloody clue what's going on but are happy to be fobbed off with any old made up guff so they don't have to ask any awkward questions or even, gasp, actually do something.

[Summerof69]

I did notice that the FL have changed their FFP rules last week meaning clubs can lose £39m over a 3 year period, a total that is similar to the PL clubs, which means the likes of Muff, who were breaking the old rules, can just carry on spending.

[Simon Pieman]

Yeah. Although I'd suggest if you believe what JedCo say about the way they leached money out of the club, I've got a fleet of second-hand motors you might be interested in.

EDIT: Adver story at the time says the deal was "worth" £4m to Town, on the basis that we'd get £200k pa from Lindley and (allegedly) save £200k each year for 10 years. The sources for those figures, of course, being JedCo:

http://www.thisisswindontownfc.co.uk/news/headlines/10476467.UPDATED__Town_agree_new_catering_deal/?ref=rss

and repeated in this pack of wholly credible business visionaryness

http://www.thisisswindontownfc.co.uk/news/headlines/10536421.SWINDON_TOWN__Club_present_their_vision_to_businesses_and_sponsors/?ref=rss

Which is also where the same business visionaries reckoned we'd clear £1.8m from their amazing summer concert spectaculars. So I don't think it's unreasonable to take their £200k pa with a pretty massive pinch of (catered) salt. So, yeah, flogged off for a pittance but, I'd wager, with a hefty chunk of the 10 years front-loaded to the first year, nay month, of the contract.

Quite correct about how the catering deal is reported to have been structured. £2m for a 10 year contract though I doubt someone would want to pay all of that up front to such a volatile business STFC. So £200k a year for that + a £200k cost saving. I'm pretty sure it implied that we didn't make a profit from the catering side before.

The concerts were a 'conservative £900k' per annum with £750k in the first year (£1.8m if all concerts sold out).

For this and more of the plans which never came to fruition, read the comments here:

http://thetownend.com/index.php?topic=51965.0

[jonny72]

So can someone tell me exactly what was wrong with the deal they signed?

£200k guaranteed income and £200k cost savings per year, so £400k a year better off. There are also a number of references to the club sharing any additional revenues that are generated.

I don't believe the fixed price sale of catering rights argument, it doesn't make any sense for either party.

Lindley is part of a pretty big corporation and I'm not convinced they'd get get involved in anything dodgy.

[suttonred]

Big corporation like, RBOS, the Co-Op etc etc. Not saying you are wrong, but just because someone is big, doesn't mean they cant be shady. Normally quite the opposite Is the more usual outcome in this screwed up world.

[Simon Pieman]

So can someone tell me exactly what was wrong with the deal they signed?

£200k guaranteed income and £200k cost savings per year, so £400k a year better off. There are also a number of references to the club sharing any additional revenues that are generated.

I don't believe the fixed price sale of catering rights argument, it doesn't make any sense for either party.

Lindley is part of a pretty big corporation and I'm not convinced they'd get get involved in anything dodgy.

The point was that increasing the gate wouldn't have the same knock on effect in food and drinks sales. If we double the gate we don't double the income from catering do we? Likewise if gates drop then I assume we don't lose money.

Then look at the thread about the business plan. How many of those numbers have actually been accurate? The other point which was alluded to was that we can probably take the quoted figures with a pinch of salt for that reason.

I think the worst thing may be that it could limit the playing budget because effectively we've cut down our turnover.

[ahounsell]

So can someone tell me exactly what was wrong with the deal they signed?

£200k guaranteed income and £200k cost savings per year, so £400k a year better off.

£200k saving + £200k income is NOT £400k better off.

You have to factor in the income that was previously going to the club from this activity.

It is possible that the club is better off but to be £400K better off the previous income from this activity would need to have been 0.

I havent noticed any free catering or hospitality at the CG before!

[theakston2k]

The thing is with Jed I don't actually think he knows what the truth is and what isn't he seems to suffer a bad case of split personality disorder. On Friday I messaged him on Facebook basically telling him just to fuck off and leave the club alone, I got 2 responses. First he posted on my wall where everyone can see it saying "we'll have to catch up for a cuppa sometime". That was then followed by a private message that started "fucking prick..." and included a load of threats.
It seems he tries to be the friendly guy in public but get him one on one and he's a rather obnoxious character or to use his words a "thug moron".

On that basis I think it's fair to take any figures quoted by him with a substantial amount of salt!

[Simon Pieman]

£200k saving + £200k income is NOT £400k better off.

You have to factor in the income that was previously going to the club from this activity.

It is possible that the club is better off but to be £400K better off the previous income from this activity would need to have been 0.

I havent noticed any free catering or hospitality at the CG before!

It was certainly implied this was worth £400k boost to profits.