Pages: 1 ... 8 9 10 [11]   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Supporters' Trust Statement on Court Case  (Read 28920 times)
Simon Pieman
Original Wanker

Offline Offline

Posts: 36318




« Reply #150 on: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 07:14:10 »

I think having a fan on the board of directors will not achieve much. Likewise the fans don't need a voice - whether our opinions are valid we will all make our voices heard if we so want it.

Power or McCrory et al or whoever the next owner is will not like it and it will distance the Trust, but someone needs to come out and say "the fans should own at least a quarter of STFC and we want to achieve this. Here's what we're going to do in order to do this and we want you to be a part of it."

A speculative bid/enquiry for shares in Seebeck 87 and Swinton Reds 20 should be happening right now.
Logged
Bogus Dave
Ate my own dick

Offline Offline

Posts: 16347





Ignore
« Reply #151 on: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 07:47:15 »

Swinton reds share capital is a pound I think, it needn't be that speculative
Logged

Things get better but they never get good
Simon Pieman
Original Wanker

Offline Offline

Posts: 36318




« Reply #152 on: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 08:33:08 »

Oh Dave, you know it doesn't work like that
Logged
Bogus Dave
Ate my own dick

Offline Offline

Posts: 16347





Ignore
« Reply #153 on: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 09:34:05 »

he he he
Logged

Things get better but they never get good
Honkytonk

Offline Offline

Posts: 4413


Whoo Whoo!




Ignore
« Reply #154 on: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 10:03:54 »

As a complete outsider, I understand the Trust has done some good work, but it seems to me that the leadership of it became a vanity project for some years, with people using it as a way to 'shout loudest'. Knowing this place to be a hotbed of Trust-ee's, I fully expect some gip for that (my mate was chairman blah blah blah), but it's simply the way it seemed as an outsider, so it might be something that needs to be addressed - if one person perceives the trust like this, then others may well do.

Is there much interaction between Trust and the Football Club? Do you get together for meetings with the Club staff/board? Is there any kind of protocol for contacting the club so that Fan's concerns can be aired in a professional, official manner in the proper enviroment (i.e. not twitter)? Unless organisations like we've got at the club meet and work together regularly and relatively often, there's little chance of any trust or understanding being formed between them that will help when it comes to the difficult moments where the Trust needs to step in and voice major concerns over the way things are being done. It may even head off a couple of those 'big' moments early on.

Just my two bits.
Logged
pauld
Aaron Aardvark

Offline Offline

Posts: 25436


Absolute Calamity!




Ignore
« Reply #155 on: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 10:26:15 »

I've read a fair bit of the last few pages, much of which has been reasoned and constructive, especially some of the criticism of the Trust, some of which has been  yah boo sucks playground stuff. So by and large par for the course - I hope the Trust board do pick out the constructive criticism because it's well put and needs taking on board.

I'd make two specific points on the past and on the future. On the past, I've read a few people say the Trust achieved very little. I'd dispute that (well, I would, wouldn't I?). We were faced with a situation where the club was in very real danger of being destroyed - 2 periods of administration and repeated episodes of "5 minutes from locking the gates" with no sign of learning any lessons from those periods of peril showed that. It was under threat primarily because of the way it was being run by Diamandis and Wills Jr. They, in particular Diamandis, had made it very clear that they would NOT sell up until after they'd secured the pay-off they thought they deserved from a redevelopment that was in their interests not the club's, would have condemned the club to at best the kind of struggles we saw and still see Oxford undergoing under Kassam and in any case always doomed to failure under their leadership. But they refused to accept any of that and pressed on like a bad sea captain heading full steam for the rocks everyone else jumped overboard to avoid.

Under those circumstances, our primary objective was to force the Wills family to jettison Diamandis and to sell to proper owners (NB not anyone - we never had the "Anyone but Diamandis" approach some had). Our secondary objective was that they should sell to the alternative we presented. We failed in that secondary objective, we succeeded in the first. Had we not succeeded in the first, I'm quite convinced we wouldn't have a club now.

Secondly, looking to the future. I don't think achieving a shareholding in Seebeck/Swinton/AN Other Holding Co is worthwhile, as it's too easy to simply swap out the underlying vehicles, leaving the Trust holding worthless paper. Likewise, a simple shareholding in the club itself is not worthwhile without also achieving a change in the Articles of Association to make a certain level of shareholding (e.g. 25%) a "blocking shareholding" that can veto (for example) changes to the share allocation. That's to prevent the kind of dilution that happened with Black when he diluted the shareholding and overnight over £10,000 worth of Trust investment was wiped out to about 100 quid. Or indeed anything much else - as it stands unless you own the majority of the shares, you don't have squat. So unless the Trust can gain a controlling interest in the club (unlikely) or ally itself with another minority shareholder to achieve a majority between them (again unlikely and likely to be unpalatable - hands up who fancies a Jed/Trust "dream team"?), you need to achieve some kind of agreement with the owner to buy a significant %age of shares and to amend the Articles of Association to create a threshold where that gives you some degree of at least veto powers (e.g. on wiping out your shareholding, selling the ground if we ever own it, etc etc). Otherwise, you spend a lot of money on pissing in the wind. I'll wait for Si Pie to correct me on why I'm wrong here Smiley Oh and I'm aware that the changes of securing such an agreement are extremely remote right now, but I don't see it's worth paying 0000s for 10, 20, 25, 30% of the club/holding co unless you get that kind of agreement with it.
Logged
Simon Pieman
Original Wanker

Offline Offline

Posts: 36318




« Reply #156 on: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 14:44:33 »

Pretty much accurate Paul, it is a lot more complicated than any of us could possibly write here. You're also right to say it's basically pie in the sky because neither Power/McCrory/Seebeck 87/Swinton 20 Reds/whoever the hell owns the club would ever agree to it.

Actually the 25% shareholding is not quite right it would need to be anything above 25%. But this shareholding would allow special resolutions to be blocked and thus alteration of the Articles of Association (the rules specific to a company about how it is run) would need the Trust's agreement.

There are pretty simple measures that could be taken to ensure protection of the minority stake and also the investment in the club itself but it would require the Articles of Association to be changed almost certainly as you say.

I honestly think a fans representative would only ever be a token gesture, a bit like the AGMs put on in the Fitton days. There could also be a way to make it a stipulation in the Articles of Association of the football club, that a fans' appointed representative should be placed on the Board of directors (of the football club) in a non-executive capacity. This, along with a >25% shareholding would secure a fans rep on a permanent basis.

The above is a very basic back of fag packet idea/plan which I came up with which is merely hypothetical and probably has more holes in it than a lump of emmantal cheese. But what's the point of having strategic aims without having a plan to implement that strategy? That's probably what I'm trying to point out - there should be a plan and there isn't, or if there is it needs more publicity.
Logged
RWB Robin

Offline Offline

Posts: 667




Ignore
« Reply #157 on: Tuesday, May 6, 2014, 08:43:48 »

I am glad to have been a part of that debate and discussion.  I don't think anyone on the board will do other than welcome the things have been said, even those who have siad that we don't need the Trust or any other forum through which fans can express a view; and it has certainly underlined the problem facing any such organisation - there are almost as many views of the current situation and what can be done about it as there are supporters.  And the problem with fora such as this is that we all repeat things that have been said, heard or otherwise gleaned, and very few of us know or can discern the truth amidst the rumour.  At the very least, the Trust can try to sift and sieve this so we can get as close to the truth as possible, through links with the club and others.

In answer to one of the recent comments, the Chair of the Trust is trying to establish a regular pattern of meetings with club representatives.  Progress has been made.  Other conversations are going on to address particular practical issues facing the club, and I am very happy to ensure that information is posted on here about progress on those things as and when appropriate.  A new membership offer is being made, and already around 100 new members have signed up.  PWP posted the link to the Trust STFC site, but here it is again:  www.truststfc.com/join.  Membership is being offered at £1 (or £1.25 via paypal to cover costs) until the end of the year.  We have heard the criticism of 'secrecy', and lack of opportunity for members to contribute.  Imaginative ideas as to how we might improve that will be welcome, since not many people seem to want to come to meetings.

The aims of the Trust are clearly set out on the website.  But in short, we want to make a positive contribution to the life of our club.  We don't want to come alive only in crisis situations.  But unless we come up with a good solution to the problem of fall-off of membership in 'normal' times, we will always be vulnerable to the criticism of being 'toothless' from one side and an irritant to be ignored from the other.

There are some really helpful ideas in this discussion.  If anyone wants to PM me with others please do, and I absolutely undertake to ensure that the Board looks at what is being said.
Logged
Ardiles

Offline Offline

Posts: 11528


Stirlingshire Reds




Ignore
« Reply #158 on: Saturday, July 5, 2014, 13:11:30 »

Membership renewed.  I'd let it lapse.  Bad me.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 8 9 10 [11]   Go Up
Print
Jump to: