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Author Topic: Let's Get Political!  (Read 380333 times)
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Thingie


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« Reply #4455 on: Saturday, December 15, 2018, 13:53:52 »

yup, sounds great
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bamboonoshoe


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« Reply #4456 on: Saturday, December 15, 2018, 18:39:40 »

Sounds like a great deal (SRKs Remain pledge).

The opportunity to live and travel in 27 other countries with little to no visa restrictions (other than the standard). Many of which (18 maybe 19) use a single currency, ensuring ease of movement for capital with things like SEPA (there is better but this is pretty darn good), between said countries. No IKEA furniture and other imported beauties like Rauch, reaching astronomical price heights due to rises in import duty (the buy to let investors can sleep easy). Being able to attract and keep the best bankers and traders as "The City" would retain competitive certainty. Attracting fantastic surgeons and medical professionals from said pool of 27. Retaining a shared program status with ESA and the pioneering intelligence that comes hand in hand with a partnership in space exploration, as well as continued military access to Galileo GPS. The Erasmus+ which allows University Students to move from said countries and study in a place more beneficial to their degree (this includes UK students having instant access to this too, as has been experienced by friends of mine (yes I have the odd one or two) and co-workers). It is only being confirmed to be supported until 2020. There's much more benefit but I won't go on.

Economically we'd be fucking stupid to leave. Why should the decision deny good opportunity and experience to generations not even born? Yet, those 1.27 million of a "majority" out of, lets not forget 46.5m of the electorate, have decided their/our fate. A whopping 2.37%

My question is, if you don't care for any of that and as has been made evident, not a lot would change for the better. Why would you be bothered about wanting to leave anyway?

Sorry, you were sold a fish and the fish is rotten.
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chalkies_shorts


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« Reply #4457 on: Saturday, December 15, 2018, 19:05:13 »

I think your finishing line should be the fish may be rotten, it may largely be the same or it might be a different fish but effectively the same or better.
There is not one person in the fucking world who knows how it will pan out. There are plenty of opinions but nobody actually knows. That's the gamble.
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« Reply #4458 on: Saturday, December 15, 2018, 19:38:11 »

I think your finishing line should be the fish may be rotten, it may largely be the same or it might be a different fish but effectively the same or better.
There is not one person in the fucking world who knows how it will pan out. There are plenty of opinions but nobody actually knows. That's the gamble.

1. That's a "Reg Fence" logic, surely  Wink
2. Then why on earth would we take that gamble with so much uncertainty?

All this just doesn't seem an educated bet, to me.

Slight divulge but I'm all for patriotism and sovereignty, etc. It's actually something we should be freely proud (like every country should freely do) to do. However our Far Right idiots have not helped the case of "innocent patriotism". I always find a certain irony that many of them have no idea where St. George originates from. Even so the trade off, of having a "Flag Day" like many nations do just wouldn't outweigh the benefits as listed previously. It might for some. In any case if someone was that patriotic. They would book April 23rd off anyway.
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chalkies_shorts


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« Reply #4459 on: Saturday, December 15, 2018, 19:48:29 »

Don't forget that we leavers are apparently uneducated, racist cunts who will ruin everyone's children's lives, all 17.4 million of us. On the positive side as we're apparently all on the edge of death then just string it out a bit until another referendum and we'll remain. Or alternatively lots of us have seen the errors of our ways and it's for our good that we have another chance to correct our foolishness that we now freely acknowledge
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Flashheart


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« Reply #4460 on: Saturday, December 15, 2018, 20:45:05 »

I know some very (VERY) well educated and very liberally minded leavers. I get how frustrating it must be for such folk to be branded with the same brush as the Tommy Robinsons of the world. I often get branded as a bigot myself because of my views on religion. It gets right on my fucking tits. It's much easier for people to attack a strawman than it is to face objections that might challenge their own worldview.

Having said that... the leavers that are the most vociferous tend not to be those that are reasonable. As is often the case with any topic. Look at SRK, he more reactional than anything and he's quite typical of the type of leaver you'll find making noises on social media.

It would be good if those that were more reasonable would speak up more. Although, the left can be very keen on shouting down those they don't agree with so I can see why many just don't want to bother.
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Sir red ken
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« Reply #4461 on: Saturday, December 15, 2018, 20:54:23 »

I know some very (VERY) well educated and very liberally minded leavers. I get how frustrating it must be for such folk to be branded with the same brush as the Tommy Robinsons of the world. I often get branded as a bigot myself because of my views on religion. It gets right on my fucking tits. It's much easier for people to attack a strawman than it is to face objections that might challenge their own worldview.

Having said that... the leavers that are the most vociferous tend not to be those that are reasonable. As is often the case with any topic. Look at SRK, he more reactional than anything and he's quite typical of the type of leaver you'll find making noises on social media.

It would be good if those that were more reasonable would speak up more. Although, the left can be very keen on shouting down those they don't agree with so I can see why many just don't want to bother.
I would be quite calm about it if cunts didn't think they have the right to ignore the vote. If they'd have won, well we all know what they'd say, that's it the people have spoken. Fucking leftard commie twats.
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« Reply #4462 on: Saturday, December 15, 2018, 20:59:21 »

I rest my case.
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« Reply #4463 on: Saturday, December 15, 2018, 21:05:03 »

I would be quite calm about it if cunts didn't think they have the right to ignore the vote. If they'd have won, well we all know what they'd say, that's it the people have spoken. Fucking leftard commie twats.
I know several remainers who are right wing. I know several leavers who are left wing. Tony Benn didn't want the EU. This crosses parties. Look at the amount of traditional labour voters up north who voted leave. What I don't like is Dianne abbot saying anyone who voted brexit is racist. I also don't like that smarmy cunt Hammond calling leavers extremists - 17.4 million extremists. I believe he has since apologised.
I also fucking hate the terms gammons, brexdiiot, remoaners etc.
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« Reply #4464 on: Saturday, December 15, 2018, 21:23:30 »

Don't forget that we leavers are apparently uneducated, racist cunts who will ruin everyone's children's lives, all 17.4 million of us. On the positive side as we're apparently all on the edge of death then just string it out a bit until another referendum and we'll remain. Or alternatively lots of us have seen the errors of our ways and it's for our good that we have another chance to correct our foolishness that we now freely acknowledge

Just so we're clear, I never even mentioned anything about leavers being uneducated, racist cunts thanks very much.

I know a fair amount of people who voted leave, including my own family. Considering I live in a constituency that voted 60% to 40% in favour of  leave, about 45k to 30k with a 76.5% turnout. I'm well aware that plenty of them aren't stupid (there's a good chunk that are, that includes remain voters too) or racist.

Whatever we think or believe and whichever side of the ballot we fall, in reality we have no real control of how this will pan out anyway. The tinpot of it all, is an inept government and "leader" who haven't a spine or the jimminitys of an idea of how to execute it. Certainly without any kind of dignity or respect.
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Sir red ken
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« Reply #4465 on: Saturday, December 15, 2018, 21:26:43 »

I rest my case.
Flash I couldn't pass it up, you were looking for an answer like mine above. Like I've said to all the women I shagged, glad I didn't disappoint.
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chalkies_shorts


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« Reply #4466 on: Saturday, December 15, 2018, 21:30:33 »

Just so we're clear, I never even mentioned anything about leavers being uneducated, racist cunts thanks very much.

I know a fair amount of people who voted leave, including my own family. Considering I live in a constituency that voted 60% to 40% in favour of  leave, about 45k to 30k with a 76.5% turnout. I'm well aware that plenty of them aren't stupid (there's a good chunk that are, that includes remain voters too) or racist.

Whatever we think or believe and whichever side of the ballot we fall, in reality we have no real control of how this will pan out anyway. The tinpot of it all, is an inept government and "leader" who haven't a spine or the jimminitys of an idea of how to execute it. Certainly without any kind of dignity or respect.
Read your post again
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« Reply #4467 on: Today at 00:11:15 »

What I don't like is Dianne abbot saying anyone who voted brexit is racist.
And? Abbot's an idiot, everyone knows that. Even assuming she did actually say that (and not just something that could be made to sound like that once the quote had been edited by the media), why would that bother you? It's like getting upset because SRK calls everyone who doesn't agree with him a commie leftard. So what? There's loads of perfectly intelligent, well-informed people who voted for both leave and remain. There is a legitimate case to be made for both sides of the argument, although neither case was made during the referendum campaign, which on both sides traded on ignorance, lies and downright fraud. That doesn't mean that people who voted one way or another are ignorant or stupid purely because of the way they voted, we all went on the evidence we had available to make our decisions, which were extremely ill-served by lowest common demoninator campaigns on both sides. I suspect that where we are now is not really where most voters of either side would wish to be. But allowing yourself to feel judged by or judging the "other side" by the likes of Abbot, Farage, Blair, the criminal Yaxley-Lennon (aka his nomme de guerre "Tommy Robinson") or the likes of SM trolls like SRK is to only perpetuate the rifts this whole sorry debacle has caused. Most commonsense Leave voters have far more in common with their Remain counterparts than either do with the extremes of their "side", and the voters on both sides have been badly let down by the leaders of all factions.
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« Reply #4468 on: Today at 01:38:03 »

Read your post again

For the want of not getting cyclical, please do point to where I state all Leave voters are "uneducated" & "racist cunts". They were, I believe your words that you inserted into the conversation. You clearly have an issue somewhere within this point because I never mentioned it.

If you are claiming it from the following extractions;

'All this just doesn't seem an educated bet¹ to me.'

'However our Far Right idiots (½a) have not helped the case of "innocent patriotism". I always find a certain irony that many of them have no idea where St. George originates (½b) from.'

and this;

'Economically we'd be fucking stupid³ to leave.'

Specifically the elements highlighted in bold. Purely because they are the only areas that link to what you are claiming. I'll add context to them;

¹ Relating to actually delivering on Brexit. As we've seen over the last week or so in parliament, the prospect of leaving the EU appears a weakening proposal with all routes of negotiation closed off. If we were to bet on leaving right now, it wouldn't seem an educated bet.

½a Relating to Far Right Extremists.

½b Relating to Far Right Extremists, many of which ignorantly think St. George was English.

³ Relating to the Bank of England and the Government's economic forecasts, post-Brexit (both released on the 28th Nov 2018) stating Britain would be economically worse off after Brexit.

 Roll Eyes
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #4469 on: Today at 02:18:20 »

 Bottom line is however flawed we live in a democracy.... Labour's manifesto pledge on the EU in 2015, was this....

"Allow no further transfer of powers to Brussels without a referendum" eminently sensible, but the Cameron position was voted for.

That was then delivered and the vote was for out... Parliament then voted overwhelmingly to trigger Art 50.

Parliament now needs to deliver that verdict, and if it means tanking the economy so be it, they should have thought of that before triggering Art 50.
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