Franchise v Swindon Town Matchday thread

[Stef Troll]

You said this before and I responded including another question, but instead you've ignored it and responded to a later post.

But you know that, because you're trolling.

I haven’t seen an answer (or it isn’t appearing on my computer if so). The only comment I see is Power robbed us blind.

Swindon are breaking even or making a small loss. How would you increase the playing budget in a sensible manner. I am genuinely interested to know.

To me you sound like one of those blokes down the pub who says they managed to put their holidays, dogs food etc in their accounts and got a £5k refund (ie talking bollock). When they know they are losing the argument they just repeat same old tripe (ie in your case that I’m a troll).

Anyway cba for this. Ultimately there is nothing we can do as Clem is in charge. People have differing views on his ownership to date and that’s that.

[Stef Troll]

You're completely ignoring things like extra revenue from food and drink sales to bigger crowds. Your point isn't even worth making when you miss things like that.

Which is kind of the whole point of the conversation. We're not paying for fuck all for anything.

Comparing Swindon historically with Accrington would be stupid anyway. Historically Accrington have owned their stadium since 2018 so wouldn’t have to pay rent etc. Swindon only started owning the stadium recently. So whilst we may get £1.5 million extra sales, they would have saved loads on rent and other associated outgoings.

[Ƭ̵̬̊: The Artist Formerly Known as CWIG]

I haven’t seen an answer (or it isn’t appearing on my computer if so). The only comment I see is Power robbed us blind.

Swindon are breaking even or making a small loss. How would you increase the playing budget in a sensible manner. I am genuinely interested to know.

To me you sound like one of those blokes down the pub who says they managed to put their holidays, dogs food etc in their accounts and got a £5k refund (ie talking bollock). When they know they are losing the argument they just repeat same old tripe (ie in your case that I’m a troll).

Anyway cba for this. Ultimately there is nothing we can do as Clem is in charge. People have differing views on his ownership to date and that’s that.

soapy tit wank fuck off.

Shite facetious question while ignoring my question and other posts.

Because you're a twat.

[STFC_Manc]

soapy tit wank fuck off.

Shite facetious question while ignoring my question and other posts.

Because you're a twat.

That's it, you have lost the argument, so start getting offensive to people. Well done

[RobertT]

Comparing Swindon historically with Accrington would be stupid anyway. Historically Accrington have owned their stadium since 2018 so wouldn’t have to pay rent etc. Swindon only started owning the stadium recently. So whilst we may get £1.5 million extra sales, they would have saved loads on rent and other associated outgoings.

Yep, that 120k a year in rent has crippled us.  Also, as owner occupier, they are fully on the line for all costs, whereas we were just on the line for maintenance, which we didn't do because Power disputed such terms with the Council.  Clem has an argument here, around the cost to make good the dilapidations, but it was a known cost on taking the club, so should have been budgeted for when deciding to do it.  It was not hidden, it was well reported, just like the Debentures were.

Of course, Clem could remove most of the debate here - very few people are knocking him personally or think he is some sort of crook.  Most just want him to back-up his original statements when taking over the club - be open and transparent.  He hasn't been, we have minimal to no financial information available.

Without fear of repeating myself, it can be done...

https://www.carlisleunited.co.uk/club/finances/annual-audited-financial-statements/

Of course, he doesn't have to, but then at least we can call him a bullshitter and be done with it.  Accept our mediocrity (there is no other way of describing last season and the current position of the club on the field, regardless of context as to why).

[Ƭ̵̬̊: The Artist Formerly Known as CWIG]

That's it, you have lost the argument, so start getting offensive to people. Well done

I'm arguing Clem isn't giving us a fair shake based on the revenue we have and he's facetiously asking me to invent ways to increase revenue while ignoring my other posts asking him questions.

There is no good faith argument. It doesn't exist. He's on a twatty wind up.

[RedRag]

What would you do in Clem position ?  You are owed a few million from Swindon with no realistic way of this being repaid unless we go up a few divisions.

If he put the club on the market nobody will realistically buy the club unless all debts are wiped clean and they can start from a clean slate.

A lot of the above posts slate Clem ownership and what he has done. However I haven’t seen any realistic solutions. People say it’s time for someone else to take over. If I owned a failing business which owed me millions I would be reluctant to give it away from free. That’s his only realistic choice at the moment.

 I see owners as stewards of STFC. I am only concerned by how they leave the club.  I have as little interest in their personal financial welfare as they do in mine.

Jed, Black and Power have all let STFC down to various degrees and in different ways.

When Clem defeated Power, he preserved his own autonomy over losses he would otherwise have incurred.  

But, he chose to style himself as a White Knight, who though not wealthy, would be able to keep the club running and, above all, who would introduce transparency to the management of the clubs affairs.  As a gesture of intent, STFC would collaborate with the Trust and indeed Rob Angus moved from the Trust to the Club.

Clem is responsible for his own PR and the Club's, as well as for "getting bums on seats", a key financial component.  

If he is failing:

1. he risks worsening his ability to extract a good proportion of his and others' investments in the club by finding a sound buyer, and
2. he risks harming the club's ability to progress above L2.

I shall wait and see how Clem leaves us.  He's the boss.  I simply "enjoy" going to games or watching them online.

In the Trust's position, I would be considering the value of independence over "arms-length/chinese wall" closeness .  Clem and STFC are distinct entities.  It is wild speculation but I'd hazard a guess that one factor in Rob Angus' resignation decision may have been that he was foreseeing conflicts of interest.

[Stef Troll]

Yep, that 120k a year in rent has crippled us.  Also, as owner occupier, they are fully on the line for all costs, whereas we were just on the line for maintenance, which we didn't do because Power disputed such terms with the Council.  Clem has an argument here, around the cost to make good the dilapidations, but it was a known cost on taking the club, so should have been budgeted for when deciding to do it.  It was not hidden, it was well reported, just like the Debentures were.

Of course, Clem could remove most of the debate here - very few people are knocking him personally or think he is some sort of crook.  Most just want him to back-up his original statements when taking over the club - be open and transparent.  He hasn't been, we have minimal to no financial information available.

Without fear of repeating myself, it can be done...

https://www.carlisleunited.co.uk/club/finances/annual-audited-financial-statements/

Of course, he doesn't have to, but then at least we can call him a bullshitter and be done with it.  Accept our mediocrity (there is no other way of describing last season and the current position of the club on the field, regardless of context as to why).

The attached is great from Carlisle.  It’s very informative and I think it’s great their accounts are audited externally.  However your bog standard fan won’t really have a clue what all of it means. All they care about is that Carlisle are in the relegation zone in league 1 and they need to get better players in (by no doubt having a better playing budget). Fans will unfortunately prefer instance success by pushing the boat out now and don’t really care about what happens in the longer term.

Even if Swindon were as transparent as above, fans will always demand more (which is fair enough as we all want Swindon to be successful).

[Stef Troll]

I'm arguing Clem isn't giving us a fair shake based on the revenue we have and he's facetiously asking me to invent ways to increase revenue while ignoring my other posts asking him questions.

There is no good faith argument. It doesn't exist. He's on a twatty wind up.

I don’t think you understand. Swindon are either breaking even or making a small loss.

How can Clem increase the playing budget without dipping into his own pocket or by increasing the debt which Swindon has (ie instead of pay a VAT bill he uses that money to invest in the team).

He can only do it by increasing revenue streams (ie cup run, revenue from non football activities) or by reducing non football wage costs.  The savings can then be reinvested into the team.

If you were to argue that Clem hasn’t given us a fair crack because his management appointments etc have been pants then that’s fair enough. However if your argument is purely financial (which it appears to me to be the case) then it’s not logical and you are making a fool out of yourself.

 

[RobertT]

I don’t think you understand. Swindon are either breaking even or making a small loss.

How can Clem increase the playing budget without dipping into his own pocket or by increasing the debt which Swindon has (ie instead of pay a VAT bill he uses that money to invest in the team).

He can only do it by increasing revenue streams (ie cup run, revenue from non football activities) or by reducing non football wage costs.  The savings can then be reinvested into the team.

If you were to argue that Clem hasn’t given us a fair crack because his management appointments etc have been pants then that’s fair enough. However if your argument is purely financial (which it appears to me to be the case) then it’s not logical and you are making a fool out of yourself.

 

OK, lets expand on this.  A significant issue I raised in another post was around the described Goal of having a top class Academy (Level 2 was the designation).  This is a potential way to bring in a new revenue stream in the future, maybe a medium term one because it should take a few years to get the youth talent through.  I can buy into it as an idea.

However, you do not get that just by wishing it so, you need to invest.  It's at least a 10 million over 4 year commitment if you want to do it.  Other clubs have shown it, or a variation on brining in youth talent, can be leveraged to bring in a steady stream of income.  We have thus far recruitment some empty roles in the Youth set-up and used a local firm to put some scaffolding up, and maybe set-up a training weekend with an Australian private Academy.  I see nothing suggesting we have actually started working on this goal.  So even the things Clem has stated we will do, to move the club forward, are left as no more than words on a PowerPoint.

[Ƭ̵̬̊: The Artist Formerly Known as CWIG]

I think its pretty obvious to anyone reading the thread I'm arguing that the budget isn't reflective of the revenue streams we currently have at the moment. Comparing to other clubs it doesn't add up to us running at break even or a small loss unless every other club in the division (not the obvious Wrexhams, etc.) are all running at MASSIVE losses.

When compared to other much smaller clubs, we appear to be leaving money on the table, which means either 1. Clem is breaking his promise of not taking money out of the club himself 2. We're being genuinely horrendously mismanaged which is why we're pointlessly bleeding money or 3. We're wasting money still paying a fortune in the form of consultancy fees to Powers mates of Britains most wanted who were hanging around before Clem was here.

I'll say it again, we cannot fund a squad capable of filling a bench without taking liberally from our youth team. We have a handful of injuries and suspensions. This isn't happening all over the league. We have a problem with our budget other clubs that take in a lot less revenue than us are not having. Why?

If the Trust get the access they were promised, we might get answers. But as I suspect, its probably another bare faced lie from "The real deal".

Based on what we make Clem is either completely incapable of managing the clubs finances, or he is another Power, so which is it? Because it doesn't add up.







But miss the fucking point and ask me again how we can increase our revenue with some condescending waffle and then act like you're not trolling. That'll be a laugh.

[STFC_Manc]

OK, lets expand on this.  A significant issue I raised in another post was around the described Goal of having a top class Academy (Level 2 was the designation).  This is a potential way to bring in a new revenue stream in the future, maybe a medium term one because it should take a few years to get the youth talent through.  I can buy into it as an idea.

However, you do not get that just by wishing it so, you need to invest.  It's at least a 10 million over 4 year commitment if you want to do it.  Other clubs have shown it, or a variation on brining in youth talent, can be leveraged to bring in a steady stream of income.  We have thus far recruitment some empty roles in the Youth set-up and used a local firm to put some scaffolding up, and maybe set-up a training weekend with an Australian private Academy.  I see nothing suggesting we have actually started working on this goal.  So even the things Clem has stated we will do, to move the club forward, are left as no more than words on a PowerPoint.

Where did you get the £10m over 4 years from, I've not looked at this at all and wondered where this came from.

[Stef Troll]

I think its pretty obvious to anyone reading the thread I'm arguing that the budget isn't reflective of the revenue streams we currently have at the moment. Comparing to other clubs it doesn't add up to us running at break even or a small loss unless other clubs (not the obvious Wrexhams, etc.) are running at MASSIVE losses.

When compared to other much smaller clubs, we appear to be leaving money on the table, which means either 1. Clem is breaking his promise of not taking money out of the club himself 2. We're being genuinely horrendously mismanaged which is why we're pointlessly bleeding money or 3. We're wasting money still paying a fortune in the form of consultancy fees to Powers mates of Britains most wanted who were hanging around before Clem was here.

I'll say it again, we cannot fund a squad capable of filling a bench without taking liberally from our youth team. We have a handful of injuries and suspensions. This isn't happening all over the league. We have a problem with our budget other clubs that take in a lot less revenue than us are not having. Why?

If the Trust get the access they were promised, we might get answers. But as I suspect, its probably another bare faced lie from "The real deal".

Based on what we make Clem is either completely incapable of managing the clubs finances, or he is another Power, so which is it? Because it doesn't add up.







But miss the fucking point and ask me again how we can increase our revenue with some condescending waffle and then act like you're not trolling. That'll be a laugh.

At least you didn’t swear this time which is an improvement on your part.

I doubt Clem is taking money out of the business (he can’t take a dividend as the club has negative reserves). I doubt he draws a salary as this would have been leaked by now. He might take a minimal amount in consultancy fees but there would be a related party note in the accounts which would confirm this (there wasn’t any in the 2022 accounts).

I’m sure there are ways to improve/lower non football staff playing  costs (ie Swindon owning the stadium should save on rent).  Swindon would have a finance department looking into all of this and I doubt this would be overlooked.

Ultimately it is in Clems interest to have Swindon completely streamlined and finances all in order as this should help with a future sale.

In my mind there is either unused playing budget (which will be used in January if the right players come along). Otherwise the budget is fully utilised and Clem isn’t willing to pump more money into the business with a high chance he will never recoup it. I have no issue with that as most people would be the same (unless they really loved the club and money wasn’t the major motivating factor).

It’s easy to criticise when it’s not your money at stake. Hopefully one day you win £50 million on the euro millions and decide to buy Swindon and do things your way. It would be interesting to hear your thoughts after 2/3 years of owning Swindon.

[Ƭ̵̬̊: The Artist Formerly Known as CWIG]

It’s easy to criticise when it’s not your money at stake. Hopefully one day you win £50 million on the euro millions and decide to buy Swindon and do things your way. It would be interesting to hear your thoughts after 2/3 years of owning Swindon.

I'm just pointing out that something clearly doesn't add up. The condescending shite in your posts is nothing more than that....shite.

I'm still waiting for all the other clubs in the league needing to raid the youth team for players to fill a bench as well, as a way of reassuring me things are totally normal and I'm paranoid.

Someone in another thread said maybe we know a points deduction this season is coming, so we're spending as little as possible right now because of it. That would at least make sense. But something isn't right and nobody is buying "not the right players" crap from Flynn. Just towing the company line.

[Batch]

surely if you know a points deduction is coming you overspend to make sure you don't go out the EFL.