Franchise v Swindon Town Matchday thread

[Pericardinho]

I don't see the point, as you have blinkers on and don't listen to other people's views.

I don't even know what your view is. Because you won't tell me.

[STFC_Manc]

I mean, again. Thank you for your service? But just because you've had to put up with decades of misery doesn't mean it always has to be that way.

Is this some one else who shouldn't be on here? Like me?

[RobertT]

Again, are your privvy to Swindon's finances?  Most people seem to think that as we have one of the highest average home gates we should therefore have one of the bigger playing budgets in the league.  This would be correct if Swindon were profit making and solvent.  However due to piss poor financial management in the past, I'm pretty sure some of the excess ticket sales revenue which Swindon have experienced since Clem took over has been reinvested back into the club to pay off historic trading debts rather then on player recruitment.

The issue is all fans demand success from their clubs now.  Most fans would be happy for their chairman to be reckless and invest lots of money in the hope of success.  However those same fans will then complain when everything comes tumbling down and their club goes into admin or even worse end up like Bury.  Lets wait and see what happens to Salford in a few years time when Neville and Co stop financing the club.  They will end up back in the Conference North.  Some may argue that they had a few good days out in league 2 and won some good cup games in the FA Cup/EFL cup.  However in the grand scheme of things will it be worth it ?  

 

Go on, I'm itrigued, I'll play.

Have you looked at our financial accounts, as an Accountant?  Have you looked at a substantial sample of other clubs accounts to get a comparison?

I know the produced Accounts only provide a limited snapshot of financial performance and budgets etc., but what you should find is a business with Revenue in the top 7 for this Division, even allowing for other clubs having "lucky" sponsorship income or funding excessive losses.

Also, you made a factually incorrect statement at some point in the past 5 pages or so.  Clem has not reduced the debt, he has moved it.  The business, which runs the club, still owes 7m, just to different people.  We know most of that is Clem and one of Clem's businesses (because it says so in the Accounts).  We also know that 2.9m has been loaned to the business in the past financial year, which has not yet been reported, to clear the Debentures.  We know who received shares in the business at the time that deal was struck, but we do not know the terms of that financing and how they will end up appearing in the accounts.  The wording used thus far suggests a liability and not a equity investment.  Therefore, the available data suggests we still owe all this money.

Now, if we have a top seven ish income (based on what we can see) then we should be able to finance  a top seven player budget.  Especially as there is no evidence that the income is being used to pay down the debt to Clem.  I will caveat that point right now though - what we do not know is the deal Clem reached to pay off the Debenture.  It could very well be that he is paying that off from the clubs income and it would perfectly explain a decision like selling Wakeling while he was on the bus to a game on deadline day with no hope of getting a replacement (they don't sell players in WH Smith at the services last I checked).  Clem has not come close to saying this out loud, but it would make sense and be a potential reason why we find ourselves with about 14 useful players.

Some have tried to make a good counter point to this view that everyone is just moaning and happy to be moaning.  Clem would have support if he outlined the scenario above - I had to pay 2.9m to clear a debt or else, to do so I struck this deal, but it means we are a bit fucked this season and maybe even next, while we try to pay some of it down and quickly.   Instead, he tried to avoid telling anyone it happened, then lied about why and how, then said we were competing for promotion.  He did not say, as you suggest, that we consolidate by not spending much this season and prepare for another go next season.

By the way, do people really think a Manager would leave some money on the table before the end of a transfer window by choice?

[Batch]

only if said money left over was insufficient to get what he needs through hopefully temporary wage inflation.

I think it's pretty clear from Flynn's own words he wanted more in.

[theakston2k]

I wondered how long till you popped up. I unlike a lot of you keyboard warriors on here actually have a balanced view of the world and can look at positives as well as negatives.

But again he wasn’t wrong was he, Angus was continually undermined by a lying owner and has now been replaced by an Axis yes man.

[Jimmy HaveHave]

The thing that baffles me is it’s obvious that we are short of numbers and that we had suspensions pending and any other injuries that could happen yet we had a couple of trialist who were doing well who we could have offered short term contracts to see us through until January.

[RobertT]

only if said money left over was insufficient to get what he needs through hopefully temporary wage inflation.

I think it's pretty clear from Flynn's own words he wanted more in.

There is no way a club with nearly 7m in Revenue can only support about 14 proper professionals in L2.  It's not like we signed a bunch of L1 wannabe's on high wages.  To me, it has to be the case that money is being used elsewhere, and maybe for good reason.

Getting an accurate picture of a L2 salary is tricky, but perceived wisdom has it around the 100k a year mark.  If that was the case, even holding an average sized squad of average ability, you'd struggle to see us spending enough with what we have on the books.  Nothing about our squad says it has top seven funding.

[RobertT]

The thing that baffles me is it’s obvious that we are short of numbers and that we had suspensions pending and any other injuries that could happen yet we had a couple of trialist who were doing well who we could have offered short term contracts to see us through until January.

I imagine they were kept around to ensure we have productive training sessions, nothing more.  We would struggle to put 11 v 11 sessions together without them for example.

[Legends-Lounge]

But again he wasn’t wrong was he, Angus was continually undermined by a lying owner and has now been replaced by an Axis yes man.

I don’t know RA and I don’t know anyone on the Trust top table. I have the utmost respect for all of them to varying degrees for what they have done over the years, with the most reserved for RA. That said I cannot help feeling that Aberdeen was used by Clem & Co. And the Trust by association. Again my own opinion rather than anything else is that at some point Aberdeen realised he was Clem & CO’s and I hate to say this, their useful stooge. Which if it turns out to be true is a fucking disgrace and a more than poor reflection on the owner/s. Maybe I’m way off the mark but given all that has gone on from the time Clem stumped up the money to Pee Lower all those years ago up until now. As sweet smelling as a chunk of stinking bishop on a hot summers day.

[Stef Troll]

Go on, I'm itrigued, I'll play.

Have you looked at our financial accounts, as an Accountant?  Have you looked at a substantial sample of other clubs accounts to get a comparison?

I know the produced Accounts only provide a limited snapshot of financial performance and budgets etc., but what you should find is a business with Revenue in the top 7 for this Division, even allowing for other clubs having "lucky" sponsorship income or funding excessive losses.

Also, you made a factually incorrect statement at some point in the past 5 pages or so.  Clem has not reduced the debt, he has moved it.  The business, which runs the club, still owes 7m, just to different people.  We know most of that is Clem and one of Clem's businesses (because it says so in the Accounts).  We also know that 2.9m has been loaned to the business in the past financial year, which has not yet been reported, to clear the Debentures.  We know who received shares in the business at the time that deal was struck, but we do not know the terms of that financing and how they will end up appearing in the accounts.  The wording used thus far suggests a liability and not a equity investment.  Therefore, the available data suggests we still owe all this money.

Now, if we have a top seven ish income (based on what we can see) then we should be able to finance  a top seven player budget.  Especially as there is no evidence that the income is being used to pay down the debt to Clem.  I will caveat that point right now though - what we do not know is the deal Clem reached to pay off the Debenture.  It could very well be that he is paying that off from the clubs income and it would perfectly explain a decision like selling Wakeling while he was on the bus to a game on deadline day with no hope of getting a replacement (they don't sell players in WH Smith at the services last I checked).  Clem has not come close to saying this out loud, but it would make sense and be a potential reason why we find ourselves with about 14 useful players.

Some have tried to make a good counter point to this view that everyone is just moaning and happy to be moaning.  Clem would have support if he outlined the scenario above - I had to pay 2.9m to clear a debt or else, to do so I struck this deal, but it means we are a bit fucked this season and maybe even next, while we try to pay some of it down and quickly.   Instead, he tried to avoid telling anyone it happened, then lied about why and how, then said we were competing for promotion.  He did not say, as you suggest, that we consolidate by not spending much this season and prepare for another go next season.

By the way, do people really think a Manager would leave some money on the table before the end of a transfer window by choice?

Its difficult to compare and contrast Swindon accounts filed at Companies House with other football clubs.  In the last accounts filed by Swindon they decided to file a profit and loss account (which they did not need to do) so you can see turnover and costs.  I did a quick search of Accrington Stanley and Colchester and they filed filleted accounts (ie accounts which don't show any profit and loss information).  Its difficult to compare and contrast without seeing more detailed accounts of other clubs (ie which show a profit and loss) and also how their turnover is broken down (ie Swindon turnover increased by 2 million from May 2021 to May 2022 but I would like to see a breakdown of player sales, cup run tickets and normal game day sales revenue).  The season we played Man City in the cup for example would have helped our turnover and profitability and skewed our results.

Swindon made a modest profit of £158k in year to May 2022.  All previous years the retained losses have increased by nearly £1 million which indicates they have been this type of loss each year.  This isn't sustainable in the long run.

Clem has saved the club by taking on the debt himself.  Ultimately one of two things will happen.  He will either sell up and recoup his money back (this will only happen if we go up a couple of divisions).  The other is that as time goes by, he realises lower league football clubs don't make any money.  He will write his debt off and someone new will take over the club.  They will then try and take the club to the next level and most likely fail.

[STFC_Manc]

But again he wasn’t wrong was he, Angus was continually undermined by a lying owner and has now been replaced by an Axis yes man.

Ah just the negatives again, shock.

[theakston2k]

I don’t know RA and I don’t know anyone on the Trust top table. I have the utmost respect for all of them to varying degrees for what they have done over the years, with the most reserved for RA. That said I cannot help feeling that Aberdeen was used by Clem & Co. And the Trust by association. Again my own opinion rather than anything else is that at some point Aberdeen realised he was Clem & CO’s and I hate to say this, their useful stooge. Which if it turns out to be true is a fucking disgrace and a more than poor reflection on the owner/s. Maybe I’m way off the mark but given all that has gone on from the time Clem stumped up the money to Pee Lower all those years ago up until now. As sweet smelling as a chunk of stinking bishop on a hot summers day.

I think it’s pretty clear that’s exactly what happened. Morfuni manipulated the Trust and more vocal fans into supporting him with his takeover. Then kept them onside whilst he got hold of 50% of the CG along with having Greg Norman & Angus in key positions during this time to make it look like everyone had the best interests of the Club at heart. It’s no coincidence that the moment the ground purchase was completed both have since departed and been replaced by Axis stooges and now he’s pretty much made the Trust into a pointless organisation he only pays lip service to them now. I think it’s clear to see that Morfuni will manipulate anyone that helps him get what he wants.

[theakston2k]

Ah just the negatives again, shock.

You really hate the fact you can’t deny it don’t you?!

[Ides of March]

Couple of things there that made me smile.

You honestly think that fans of more successful clubs spend as much wasted time and energy on their clubs finances and dodgy owners than little ole Swindon? And actually get the answers? Oh, by successful I don’t mean the regular trophy winners, just clubs higher up the pyramid than us.

Also welcome to the the stadium of despair. There are those of us who have been supporting town with our time and money since the sixties and seventies and Eighties long before our flirt with the PL. So let me let put it out there for you to ponder. When I started to watch Swindon it was circa 1973 or 1974 it’s a bit vague now please forgive me. We were in Division 2 the old championship and finished bottom and were relegated to division 3 now L1 since then most of our time has been spent yo yoing between L1 & L2. So you don’t want to be signed up for the next twenty years as it stands? 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Welcome to our world you whipper snapper. Get used to it because fuck all will change. The only real chance of us getting to the championship at best is going to take £millions to develop the ground and £millions spent on the playing staff and about a minimum of 10 years, if we are lucky.

Sorry to spoil your day.

I’m sorry, but the L1&L2 yo-yo club has only really happened over the last decade. Throughout our history we’ve predominately been a League One club (yeah, huge difference I know) with the odd venture into the Championship, and now, L2. I’m not someone blinded enough to think we can become this sustainable Championship club, but I don’t think asking for Swindon Town to be a team that is steady in L1 is a huge ask. After all, it’s what the club has been for the majority of its history. In fact, I don’t think it’s much to ask for a competitive team in L2, but that is apparently a bridge too far these days.

Of course, every club suffers poor periods in their history, and as a fan you sign up for some shit times too, but 20+ years outside of the Championship and six of our last seven season in the basement division indicates that we’ve had more shit in recent years than clubs of similar size to us. And no, I’m not asking for us to magically do a Luton or Bournemouth either. Just being even a Lincoln would do.

[ChalkyWhiteIsGod]

Is anyone going to believe me now ...

I said at the beginning of the season Morfuni was skint and unable to fund a competitive team..  

But of course the Clem Is God Crew fanclub said I was talking shit.

Coming back to haunt us now...

Thing is we don't need Clem to fund it. We fucking fund it. We pay money and turn up and provide revenue. What is the issue? Saying Clem can't fund it makes it sound like we're looking for a hand out and we're not. We're looking for what we fucking deserve.

We don't deserve to have a shite budget comparable to clubs that get fuck all support in this league, we simply don't.