New beginnings - 25% Truth, 80% Bollocks

[DV]

It’s a fair question & one we’d all struggle to answer without having watched a lot of FGR last season (which I assume we didn’t)

Obviously we watch Swindon a lot more - for me the main reasoning behind the statement ‘this isn’t a 23rd placed squad’ is that I don’t feel the manager is getting the most out of this squad. The selections haven’t been great & the tactical decisions have been well off particularly in midfield & basics like closing down is not good enough.

Where as sometimes teams just aren’t good enough. The season King / Iffy took us down that was a poor team. Iffy probably got as much out that team as he could but we still went down because it was a bottom 4 team but I still felt for the most part we at least gave it the best we could. Unlike for example the David Prutton led relegation team. Prime example of both players playing well below their quality but also you can’t be ‘too good to go down’

So yeah - I think basically I do not think the squad is being utilised as best as it could be & if Kennedy (or another) can get the best (or at least better) out of this squad it should be good enough to steer clear of relegation (but not much more imo)

[Batch]

That's a good explanation, thanks.

My hope (worst case) is that Kennedy at least happens upon something that works. We do at least seem to be improving performances though the issue of playing well and creating little isn't ideal.

Kennedy has played at a higher level and while that isn't a guarantee of getting it right he must have seen and done it all before.

Nobody mention Mark Hughes, Steve Bruce or Wayne Rooney.

How a win in Barrow would lift us all.

[4D]

I've got to that stage where I don’t want us to scrape an odd win to secure 18th position and stay another year not challenging in this shite league. Shit or bust for me.

[adje]

Equally would you have said Crawley's was a promotion squad last season. The fact is this is L2 and it's unpredictable

[Pericardinho]

That's not the point though.

Nobody is saying you can't defy the odds and have a successful season.

I remember Coventry getting out of league 2 in the biggest state they've ever been in.

But Swindon Town shouldn't be needing to 'over achieve' to get in the top 7 of league 2.

I've seen some fans say they'd be happy with mid table this season. This is what we've now become.

Those expectations will keep getting lower. Until some are happy we just survive.

And then once we are relegated, people will be content with a top half finish in the national league.

Where does this end?

[UTR]

Equally would you have said Crawley's was a promotion squad last season. The fact is this is L2 and it's unpredictable

This is the exact logic I apply to it at both ends of the table but in reverse.

I’m not really on board with the notion when people attempt to cope with/justify our scenario by saying “well X managed to get promoted on a shoe string budget” or “X managed to still get promoted when they were 18th at Christmas”. These are exceptions to the rule, I get why they’re mentioned but attempts to use these in my opinion are just attempts to make ourselves feel a bit better. The reality is for every Crawley budget that gets promoted, there’s a much larger number of teams with that budget who finish much much lower.

So in fairness, I apply the same logic to the other end of the table. Yes FGR and our 10/11 season are example’s of good squads on paper that managed to get relegated but the likelihood of having a squad like that on paper and going down is still quite low.

I may have butchered my explanation of that point there but basically, I don’t tend to let the exceptions to the majority rule for a scenario form an argument that we’re likely to achieve a better or worse result than the majority. That’s not saying you have to completely ignore the exceptions, but it annoys me when a team is heading in a clear direction and you hear the exception examples brought up when they represent such a small % chance of happening.

[DV]

Equally would you have said Crawley's was a promotion squad last season. The fact is this is L2 and it's unpredictable

No, I wouldn’t have (no one did) but that goes back to the point that Lindsey clearly got the best out of that team - which is why (going back to the original point) the manager is culpable for the results and it’s not *entirely* Clem’s fault.

[DV]

That's not the point though.

Nobody is saying you can't defy the odds and have a successful season.

I remember Coventry getting out of league 2 in the biggest state they've ever been in.

But Swindon Town shouldn't be needing to 'over achieve' to get in the top 7 of league 2.

I've seen some fans say they'd be happy with mid table this season. This is what we've now become.

Those expectations will keep getting lower. Until some are happy we just survive.

And then once we are relegated, people will be content with a top half finish in the national league.

Where does this end?

I’d be content (rather than happy) with anything better than last season because it’s at least a step in the right direction.

Each season you should aim to be better than last season. That’s at least progress. I’d take prolonged progress even if it was small steps.

[Pericardinho]

No, I wouldn’t have (no one did) but that goes back to the point that Lindsey clearly got the best out of that team - which is why (going back to the original point) the manager is culpable for the results and it’s not *entirely* Clem’s fault.

You make a half decent point, however.

It absolutely IS Clem Morfuni's fault that not a single player who started last seasons opener against Crewe, played on our opening day draw to Chesterfield.

You can't expect to turn over an ENTIRE squad (and change the style almost entirely) and then expect the manager to hit the ground running.

[Berniman]

That's not the point though.

Nobody is saying you can't defy the odds and have a successful season.

I remember Coventry getting out of league 2 in the biggest state they've ever been in.

But Swindon Town shouldn't be needing to 'over achieve' to get in the top 7 of league 2.

I've seen some fans say they'd be happy with mid table this season. This is what we've now become.

Those expectations will keep getting lower. Until some are happy we just survive.

And then once we are relegated, people will be content with a top half finish in the national league.

Where does this end?

I think recent history tells us where this ends.

[DV]

You make a half decent point, however.

It absolutely IS Clem Morfuni's fault that not a single player who started last seasons opener against Crewe, played on our opening day draw to Chesterfield.

You can't expect to turn over an ENTIRE squad (and change the style almost entirely) and then expect the manager to hit the ground running.

Not arguing against that. Squad building & retention is directly effect by the way the club is run off the field. Absolutely.

Not closing down opposition 20 yards from goal falls solely on players & manager.

[BenTheRed]

Just read the piece on the Moonraker about Fitton - he should run a mile if Clem is asking him for PR advice  / Spokesperson... It'll he Aberdeen angus all over again...

As long as clem remains deluded, we're only going one way

[adje]

That's not the point though.

Nobody is saying you can't defy the odds and have a successful season.

I remember Coventry getting out of league 2 in the biggest state they've ever been in.

But Swindon Town shouldn't be needing to 'over achieve' to get in the top 7 of league 2.

I've seen some fans say they'd be happy with mid table this season. This is what we've now become.

Those expectations will keep getting lower. Until some are happy we just survive.

And then once we are relegated, people will be content with a top half finish in the national league.

Where does this end?

But it is the point. L2 is unpredictable so either scenario is possible. No one( well not me) is using it as an argument to say that either WILL happen,although you seem to think that relegation is a definite

[Pericardinho]

But it is the point. L2 is unpredictable so either scenario is possible. No one( well not me) is using it as an argument to say that either WILL happen,although you seem to think that relegation is a definite

Do i? I mentioned that teams can still have success (like Coventry) when everything off the pitch is a shit show.

My 'evidence' is based on the downward trajectory of our league finishes over a 3 year period. And our start to this season putting us on the back foot almost immediately. There's a reason the bookies had us at the wrong end of the table.

If Swindon prove everybody wrong, there'll be nobody happier than me.

[RobertT]

But it is the point. L2 is unpredictable so either scenario is possible. No one( well not me) is using it as an argument to say that either WILL happen,although you seem to think that relegation is a definite

If we continue to be run this way, then I think it is.  You can't predict which season though, and as I mentioned before, and you allude to, you can have a "lucky" season at this level.  While Crawley beat the odds (they are odds for a reason) do they really look like a club that is going to sustain that for long?  Even Accrington, who were sort of well run, couldn't hang on for too long because their supporting infrastructure just wasn't there and is unlikely ever to be.  Their case is very different, they over achieved because of how they were run.  In our case, we are run like a L2 club, maybe worse, so eventually the chickens will come home to roost unless something changes.