New beginnings - 25% Truth, 80% Bollocks

[Robinz]

I still have an issue where CM seems still confused whether monies that he needed to find to clear debentures are causing the loses.
My understanding is these payments are clearly part of the purchase of the club. This is a capital purchase
If our income has risen with paying punters through the gate, many more sponsors and continued sales of players (Wakelyn even Ellis to Colchester and several to Creepies) and then a fee for a previous manager. (Lindsay). Profits from F and B on matchdays.
Our expenses have dropped with less ground rent for the County ground. Less players and their wages. No obvious repairs and maintenance at the ground.
I might be missing something but sorry to say based on these facts... something is not right.
Also the statement from the owner that no interest is being charged on money he has introduced.

This club must be in a far better financial position than 90% of all teams in this division.

[@MacPhlea]

Has it been confirmed that these are  operating losses? Because, if they are then we all need to be concerned as it would indicate the club is not viable even after al the cost savings.

The other alternative is that these losses are as a result of ‘writing off’ things from previous accounting years that are incorrectly sat on the ledger as assets that simply don’t exist… which seems to me to be more likely and understandable when it’s difficult to put a figure on something when thing keep being uncovered.

[STFC_Manc]

I think Batch is saying the worry is more the lack of clarity over what it means.  Is it that we accept such a loss and run with it or is Clem saying we have to make cuts, still?  The number hasn't changed either, so have previous Operational cost savings been matched by a loss in Revenue?

It's the detail and the implication that is missing.

Clem is funding any deficit, or he would lose all his investment? 

The number has been quoted for quite a while and I'm sure is a worse case, very few clubs are 'viable' in league two or any league unfortunately.

A lot of work has been carried out on the stadium this summer, which isn't going to help, I doubt it would all be capital costs.

[STFC_Manc]

I still have an issue where CM seems still confused whether monies that he needed to find to clear debentures are causing the loses.
My understanding is these payments are clearly part of the purchase of the club. This is a capital purchase
If our income has risen with paying punters through the gate, many more sponsors and continued sales of players (Wakelyn even Ellis to Colchester and several to Creepies) and then a fee for a previous manager. (Lindsay). Profits from F and B on matchdays.
Our expenses have dropped with less ground rent for the County ground. Less players and their wages. No obvious repairs and maintenance at the ground.
I might be missing something but sorry to say based on these facts... something is not right.
Also the statement from the owner that no interest is being charged on money he has introduced.

This club must be in a far better financial position than 90% of all teams in this division.

I think you are confused here, the £0.5m-£1.0m loss can't be caused by the £2.95m debenture and Clem hasn't said that?

You are making a lot of assumptions here, we have sacked managers (we are paying them until October?), Significant spending on the stadium, SL compensation was last year, you have no idea what the player budget is... I could go on.

[Robinz]

Agreed... I have no idea what the player budget is. Supposedly We are 4 players lite.

3.0k per week per player =600k per year.

Less rent to be paid on the County ground = 0000.00 per annum.

Skeleton commercial staffing.

Remember this is a football club that has regular home attendance of 9000 plus in league 2.

Not Cheltenham 3.5k FGR with 3k and Barrow with similar.

The potential here is simply huge

[Posh Red]

To put the loss in perspective, Dale Vince is reportedly putting in £4m a year to keep FGR going.

On the basis that we get about 6,000 more fans on a home game than them, at an average of £15 per ticket (which was more than was reported in the AB), that equates to us being £2m a year worse off.

So shows how we could be losing the sums mentioned

[Batch]

to put it into perspective, Dale Vince can afford it!

But points taken.

[Batch]

I think Batch is saying the worry is more the lack of clarity over what it means.  Is it that we accept such a loss and run with it or is Clem saying we have to make cuts, still?  The number hasn't changed either, so have previous Operational cost savings been matched by a loss in Revenue?

It's the detail and the implication that is missing.

that's exactly it. I've no idea what the costs are, so I'm not saying 'where's the money going ' .

I'm simply saying

1. can Clem afford to cover it. if not then what.

2. I know inflation and maintenance has been a shit, but have we really made no progress on the deficit. I'm hoping one off costs like playing Morris off over time, and getting the generator in have inflated the true picture

edit: @see mcfleas post. that's it exactly.

I did ask for clarification on the Clem call, but it got skipped (nothing untoward there I don't think, just Vic struggling to keep up with questions)

[Posh Red]

to put it into perspective, Dale Vince can afford it!

But points taken.

My point was trying to show to those asking how we can be losing money on 9000 crowds, when FGR are only getting 3000 how it is explainable.

Clearly Clem isn’t in that category

[Tails]

Remember this is a football club that has regular home attendance of 9000 plus in league 2.

Agree with a lot of your post but just a point here that when you consider ST holders who have already paid, subsidised and free tickets plus concessions... That isn't 9000 fans paying full price.

Also that is starting to drop sub 9 a bit more frequently. I'm sure that'll go back up if our recent on pitch success continues.

It would be nice if a rich dude took a punt on us but that does come with huge risk. If Vince gets bored of FGR, they're screwed.

[Batch]

Clem is funding any deficit, or he would lose all his investment? 

is he? at one point he said he will, then at another he said he didn't really want to put more money in.

I get your point, I don't know how deep good pockets are though

The number has been quoted for quite a while and I'm sure is a worse case,

I though the words used were "at least" (500k-1m)

very few clubs are 'viable' in league two or any league unfortunately.
.

indeed. however the stated aim is day to day breakeven with (I guess) extraordinary events being 'made up'.

I guess there's nothing as fans were can do even if we knew. so do we need to know?

if Clem is more fluid than it looks and is able to support the club then it's a non issue anyway.

[Legends-Lounge]

Agree with a lot of your post but just a point here that when you consider ST holders who have already paid, subsidised and free tickets plus concessions... That isn't 9000 fans paying full price.

Also that is starting to drop sub 9 a bit more frequently. I'm sure that'll go back up if our recent on pitch success continues.

It would be nice if a rich dude took a punt on us but that does come with huge risk. If Vince gets bored of FGR, they're screwed.

 If Vince gets bored of FGR, they're screwed.

Same goes for a lot of clubs. He’s using it for publicity purposes and no doubt some form of offset against ecotricity profits.

[ChalkyWhiteIsGod]

I’ve checked out of the ownership issue debates but these fan arguments of “he’s the devil” Vs “he’s our lord and saviour that cannot be questioned” are very reminiscent of the same early Power debates. You’d have hoped as a fan base we’d have learnt something from that and instead realised that the reality is usually at least somewhere in the middle.

Regarding Power, it wasn't. One side was right and one was wrong.

I tend to think Satan himself may have left us in a better position.

[ChalkyWhiteIsGod]

And 80%+ of the fanbase probably isn't even paying any attention.

Most of the ones on Facebook in the Clem can do no wrong camp (particularly that Ian chap) demonstrate time and time again they have no earthly clue what anyone is going on about, yet still see fit to call people 'so called supporters' and tell everyone we should back and trust Clem wholeheartedly anyway.

Cretins.

[ChalkyWhiteIsGod]

Yeah, sorry, I’m not lawyering you! Just making the point that we are fresh off the back of Jed and Power, both of whom would have gladly seen the club wiped from the map.

I actually like Clem, which I could not say of those arseholes.

I’m undecided about his intentions. I suspect he simply can’t shake off the hangers on for reasons as yet unclear that we could speculate about, and is basically rather naive, not a details guy and in over his head.

I struggle to buy that though if he is the sole owner. It must be a case of won't rather than can't.