New beginnings - 25% Truth, 80% Bollocks

[horlock07]

While it may not be written in the by-laws, the vote could easily be withheld unless the club provide such details, and even request a breakdown of project costs and deliverables etc.  The Club requires unanimous consent, so the vote comes with negotiating power.

Similarly, and going back to these hypothetical grants, any grant giving body is going to want to know a degree of who precisely they are granting the money, what for, being spent with who, claw back provisions, lawyers legal etc to which I suspect, much as with any possible due diligence of any purchaser, would make the club run a fucking mile rather than answer the questions.

FWIW I think the Trust are rapidly reaching (if not already arrived at) an untenable situation (through little fault of their own I add considering how many years ago this process started), if this gets voted down there will be immediately a deluge of 'Clem was going to spent £200m on the ground and the Trust stopped it' and associated bullshit.

Similarly I don't see any development happening under the present structure as fans won't sign off Trust and club can't do owt without at least initial sign off, so possibly everyone should just stop wasting energy on it.  Its why I've said all along that yes the club may have got 50% of the freehold basically FOC but its little use or ornament with little actual value to them as it stands.

[RobertT]

I wouldn't be so quick to assume the vote would go against the club by Trust members (well, those with voting rights on the JV).

[Ƭ̵̬̊: The Artist Formerly Known as CWIG]

Two examples give me great pause for concern with development:

a) The experience of the work the current ownership have completed - Legends Lounge & Statue Park.  Both of these have been shabby at best, low cost delivery - not being willing to describe the overall capital cost is very concerning for a "transparent" business.  The quality of workmanship is not great, the quality of products chosen is shocking - either the budgets were set for bodged work, or someone made some money on those deals.

b) Northampton Town FC showed there are some very creative ways to make personal money from capital financing for large development projects.  Given Money Laundering is one of the charges in that case, and we at least have people associated with the Strategic function of our club who have been exposed to that crime in the past, I'd have red warning lights blaring everywhere.  Especially as they now work in the construction trades.

The Legends Lounge wasn't even paid for by the club, the Eady money did. They still won't disclose it. It makes me sick.

I wasn't even aware of the Northampton case. Wonder if we'll be next.

[Family at War]

Will anybody with shares get a vote?

[tans]

Will anybody with shares get a vote?

I think so - i know what way im going

[RobertT]

The Legends Lounge wasn't even paid for by the club, the Eady money did. They still won't disclose it. It makes me sick.

I wasn't even aware of the Northampton case. Wonder if we'll be next.

And I presume the Trust were the primary funding party for what we got out the front of the DR stand, given they funded the actual bit done well, the Statue, if not the remainder.  That is frankly a fucking mess.

[Ƭ̵̬̊: The Artist Formerly Known as CWIG]

The club shouldn't get access to anymore of that money, if there is anything less.

Show us where the admin expenses are going or fuck off.

[STFC_Manc]

I really don't get people demanding to see what makes up the admin expenses, or does every other club do it?

[RobertT]

I really don't get people demanding to see what makes up the admin expenses, or does every other club do it?

Some do, many do not.

Some record players wages in Admin costs, with next to nothing in Cost of Sales, some do it the way we do and have players wages in CoS.

Your point?

In our case, the club made a commitment to provide more detailed financial breakdowns and claimed it was going to be transparent.  It hasn't provided that level of transparency is all.  That makes people ask questions as to why? especially when the club retains the services of people with less than squeaky clean backgrounds through Consultancies (the type of thing that you may well pay for from the Admin Expenses line) and has a person listed as Vice Chair for two seasons who cannot pass a Fit and Proper Persons test due to financial/drug crimes.

[RobertT]

Nefarious or not - I do not think the following statement can be argued:

STFC's financial accounts paint a picture of a business in financial distress

The debate is around whether it needs to be, and what might be causing the stress.  Also, the impact of how that is being funded on the future viability and ownership transition of the business (namely the fact Axis Football Investments are owed most of the money, and by association, is a business being chased around the globe and through the Courts).

[STFC_Manc]

Some do, many do not.

Some record players wages in Admin costs, with next to nothing in Cost of Sales, some do it the way we do and have players wages in CoS.

Your point?

In our case, the club made a commitment to provide more detailed financial breakdowns and claimed it was going to be transparent.  It hasn't provided that level of transparency is all.  That makes people ask questions as to why? especially when the club retains the services of people with less than squeaky clean backgrounds through Consultancies (the type of thing that you may well pay for from the Admin Expenses line) and has a person listed as Vice Chair for two seasons who cannot pass a Fit and Proper Persons test due to financial/drug crimes.

I'm not sure the club said it would open up the books to every fan.

Management accounts to the Trust is a fair point, however management accounts still wouldn't show you the detailed breakdown of admin expenses, it would give a few high level categories of expenses.

[RobertT]

Which would be a step forward.

Take the Legends Lounge as an example - no business HAS to reveal the cost of such a project, but what skin off their nose would it be to publish that one?  It wasn't even all their money.  When behaviour shows a pattern, you do well to pay attention to it.

[STFC_Manc]

Which would be a step forward.

Take the Legends Lounge as an example - no business HAS to reveal the cost of such a project, but what skin off their nose would it be to publish that one?  It wasn't even their money.  When behaviour shows a pattern, you do well to pay attention to it.

The AB notes state it was funded by both STFC and Eady Trust?

[RobertT]

Edited for you - are you suggesting it would have been Eady Trust asking for it not to be disclosed?

[4D]

I'm not sure the club said it would open up the books to every fan.

Management accounts to the Trust is a fair point, however management accounts still wouldn't show you the detailed breakdown of admin expenses, it would give a few high level categories of expenses.

Better read this then.......

https://truststfc.com/2021/04/12/truststfc-press-release-9-4-21-clem-morfuni-outlines-vision-for-stfc-reiterates-commitment-at-trust-board-meeting/