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Author Topic: Let's Get Political!  (Read 1369204 times)
horlock07

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« Reply #75 on: Sunday, December 21, 2014, 09:35:29 »

I am starting to doubt whether the 'free at the point of service' model for the NHS can have a lot longer to go.  Even most other socially progressive western European countries have adopted a health insurance model (where you pay up front and claim most or all of the cost of treatment/consultancy from an insurer).
My old man until the last couple of weeks had lived in France for 10+years. Last couple of years had some quite unpleasant back problems requiring multiple operations.

His friend who stayed over here at had similar problem at similar time. Long and short of it, in France referred to consultant, diagnosed  (including scans MRI) operated within 3 weeks, had to have further operation took another three weeks to sort - friend over here still not sorted after 18 months +.

I know they pay and claim back via insurance over there but still seems to be an altogether better system.
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Ardiles

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« Reply #76 on: Sunday, December 21, 2014, 09:38:37 »

What if you haven't got 5?

I think the number of people who genuinely would not be able to find 5 for a doctor's appointment is sufficiently small that you would be able to introduce a safety net that would ensure everyone who needed to would get seen.

STFC_Chris puts it better than I could, so no need to repeat the point.  The flaw with the 'free at the point of service' model is that there is absolutely no disincentive to use the service when you don't need to.  While it may be free in cash terms under the current system to visit A&E (for example), having a 4 or 5 hour wait there as standard is the price we pay.
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« Reply #77 on: Sunday, December 21, 2014, 09:54:59 »


I know they pay and claim back via insurance over there but still seems to be an altogether better system.


So it's more like private healthcare then? Is the cost the same as something like BUPA? The good thing about the NHS is that you don't need to pay, I'd rather it wasn't there but private healthcare is available too, and you get treated quicker.
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ron dodgers

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« Reply #78 on: Sunday, December 21, 2014, 09:57:37 »

I am not insurable privately, so I'm fucked then! Lucky I've still got the NHS.
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« Reply #79 on: Sunday, December 21, 2014, 09:58:21 »


It was only recently I found out you can make appointments with nurses for minor complaints and that a doctors appointment isn't necessary.

Our doctors pretty much almost push you through the nurse first, or a telephone appointment with the doctor, before you actually get to an appointment with one.

You can of course refuse the nurse appointment.

Must be practice specifics how hard they push that kind of thing.
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Ardiles

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« Reply #80 on: Sunday, December 21, 2014, 10:02:05 »

I am not insurable privately, so I'm fucked then! Lucky I've still got the NHS.

There would be a way.  You only have to take a look at the French system and others like it to see how.
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Samdy Gray
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« Reply #81 on: Sunday, December 21, 2014, 10:02:53 »

I'd worry about the scandalous level of charges that would get levied. Hospitals being run for profit just doesn't quite sit right with me.

Having to argue with insurance companies over what is and what isn't covered. Being left with bills for tens of thousands of pounds because you didn't use your insurance company's preferred choice.

You'd isolate the poorest in society even more because they wouldn't be able to afford the insurance. Just look at the US where they've had to bring in "Obama care".
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Samdy Gray
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« Reply #82 on: Sunday, December 21, 2014, 10:07:11 »

There would be a way.  You only have to take a look at the French system and others like it to see how.

Isn't the French system just a slightly different take on the NHS and National Insurance? It's still mostly state sponsored.
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Ardiles

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« Reply #83 on: Sunday, December 21, 2014, 10:09:18 »

I think so, yes.  It's not a free market free for all.  But it's not free at the point of service either.  Seems to be a lot more efficient than our set up.
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herthab
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« Reply #84 on: Sunday, December 21, 2014, 10:58:57 »

The NHS is one of the best things about the UK. The fact that it's survived for over a half century is testament to how valued it is. The waste of money is from the unwieldy administration apparatus that seems to be constantly added to.

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« Reply #85 on: Sunday, December 21, 2014, 11:41:43 »

The NHS is one of the best things about the UK. The fact that it's survived for over a half century is testament to how valued it is. The waste of money is from the unwieldy administration apparatus that seems to be constantly added to.



This is more true than you would believe.

While I was temping over the summer I accepted a 12 week contract with Wiltshire NHS to help set up the administration for the new Clinical Commissioning Group.

The amount of money wasted on furniture/printing/secretarial staff was mind blowing. I was asked not to come back after 2 weeks because I kept arguing about the inefficiencies. I did more colour printing in 2 weeks with the NHS than I did in 16 years with the Council. The clinical leads are all jealous of their little bit of the empire, and none would take a wider strategic view.
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Arriba

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« Reply #86 on: Sunday, December 21, 2014, 14:15:29 »

Are you serious ?
Get the Country back in debt with their wasteful spending plans.
Please no..... Every time that shower get in they leave the Country in a bigger mess than when they takeover.
putting right services and making improvements costs money.
It's a vicious circle at the moment as the Tories close things down and sell things off to balance the books, then Labour spend years repairing the damage. They then get ousted and the Tories sell off and cut back again.
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« Reply #87 on: Sunday, December 21, 2014, 14:26:25 »

The problem is, we don't have the money to make improvements and putting right services.

I've never voted Tory, can't stand the snivelling public schoolboy pricks, but I think their approach to the economy via cuts is unfair, horrible but unavoidably necessary.
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Peter Venkman
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« Reply #88 on: Sunday, December 21, 2014, 14:30:42 »

putting right services and making improvements costs money.
It's a vicious circle at the moment as the Tories close things down and sell things off to balance the books, then Labour spend years repairing the damage. They then get ousted and the Tories sell off and cut back again.

Spot on.
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horlock07

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« Reply #89 on: Sunday, December 21, 2014, 15:03:01 »

putting right services and making improvements costs money.
It's a vicious circle at the moment as the Tories close things down and sell things off to balance the books, then Labour spend years repairing the damage. They then get ousted and the Tories sell off and cut back again.

Alernatively for balance is it....

Labour create thousands of public sector jobs to get unemployment down and leave an economic mess and Tories spend years removing said jobs balancing the books again and then the cycle begins again!

FWIW it's somewhere in the middle I suggest - each party has its dogmatic position and due to this i don't trust any of the buggers!
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