Let's Get Political!

[RobertT]

Good Lord Reg, what have you been smoking?  PaulD is significantly to the left of centre, the Labour Party is a smidge further and Corbyn is unlikely to ever be described as near the centre of anything.  Nationalising anything is clearly old skool left material, just as PaulD described and is certainly much more left than Blair who released PFI onto the world.

Traditional Right and Left are breaking down a little at the moment, hence some of this Populist shit.

[pauld]

The point you made was that Labour had moved dramatically to the left... not so

They have clearly moved dramatically to the left since Corbyn took office, you said yourself Miliband stood on a programme of extending austerity, Labour is now (rightly) agin; the Blairites are all for privatisation, Labour is now in favour of renationalisation. That is clearly a move toward the left. But as I say, my criticism is that Corbyn is shit, not that he is left wing. Are you seriously suggesting that anyone who criticises Corbyn is right of centre? That's proper cult stuff

[Reg Smeeton]

They have clearly moved dramatically to the left since Corbyn took office, you said yourself Miliband stood on a programme of extending austerity, Labour is now (rightly) agin; the Blairites are all for privatisation, Labour is now in favour of renationalisation. That is clearly a move toward the left. But as I say, my criticism is that Corbyn is shit, not that he is left wing. Are you seriously suggesting that anyone who criticises Corbyn is right of centre? That's proper cult stuff

No I'm saying that categorising Labour as having moved "dramatically" to the left isn't a position reflected in the last manifesto. I don't think you could see it that way from a left perspective.

[RobertT]

But that's because people become more blind the further they move down the spectrum, hence SRK thinking everyone is a Commie.
The Labour Party is miles more left than it was under Blair.  Speaking as someone who thinks they straddle the divide, they've gone almost out of sight for me, just as the Tories seem to be close to where I remember them in the pre John Major days.

[horlock07]

They have clearly moved dramatically to the left since Corbyn took office, you said yourself Miliband stood on a programme of extending austerity, Labour is now (rightly) agin; the Blairites are all for privatisation, Labour is now in favour of renationalisation. That is clearly a move toward the left. But as I say, my criticism is that Corbyn is shit, not that he is left wing. Are you seriously suggesting that anyone who criticises Corbyn is right of centre? That's proper cult stuff

Burn the heretic.....

[horlock07]

Further illustrating that the Sun think that Scots are too savvy to fall for the crap they serve up every day to English readers.

[4D]

That chicken picture is hilarious 

[Reg Smeeton]

But that's because people become more blind the further they move down the spectrum, hence SRK thinking everyone is a Commie.
The Labour Party is miles more left than it was under Blair.  Speaking as someone who thinks they straddle the divide, they've gone almost out of sight for me, just as the Tories seem to be close to where I remember them in the pre John Major days.

As I said pinning down right and left is an inexact science, and it does change with time and on issues.... "miles more left" is a largely meaningless term.  Consider the issues, one by one is best.  For example the Labour Manifesto of 83, which is widely conceived of as the most radical since Atlee, included things like ban on foxhunting and establishment of a minimum wage which were enacted by New Labour.

[RobertT]

Labour Party 2017 Manifesto included:

Only the top 5 per cent of earners will be asked to contribute more in tax to help fund our public services.

We will:

Bring private rail companies back into public ownership as their franchises expire.
Regain control of energy supply networks through the alteration of operator license conditions, and transition to a publicly owned, decentralised energy system.
Replace our dysfunctional water system with a network of regional publicly-owned water companies.
Reverse the privatisation of Royal Mail at the earliest opportunity.

We will remove government restrictions that stop councils building homes and begin the biggest council building programme for at least 30 years.

That's just three areas, and they all look pretty left wing me, in the traditional sense.  And none of them were policy during Blair's terms.

[RobertT]

And I speak as someone who'd agree with some of those Manifesto points (not all).

[Reg Smeeton]

Labour Party 2017 Manifesto included:

Only the top 5 per cent of earners will be asked to contribute more in tax to help fund our public services.

We will:

Bring private rail companies back into public ownership as their franchises expire.
Regain control of energy supply networks through the alteration of operator license conditions, and transition to a publicly owned, decentralised energy system.
Replace our dysfunctional water system with a network of regional publicly-owned water companies.
Reverse the privatisation of Royal Mail at the earliest opportunity.

We will remove government restrictions that stop councils building homes and begin the biggest council building programme for at least 30 years.

That's just three areas, and they all look pretty left wing me, in the traditional sense.  And none of them were policy during Blair's terms.

You'll find State owned utilities in most northern European social democracies.... as you imply in a traditional sense it is how we used to operate and accepted across the political spectrum.

It's interesting that French state owned utilities like EDF and SNCF are free to invest in the UK, and do so quite successfully.

[horlock07]

You'll find State owned utilities in most northern European social democracies.... as you imply in a traditional sense it is how we used to operate and accepted across the political spectrum.

It's interesting that French state owned utilities like EDF and SNCF are free to invest in the UK, and do so quite successfully.

Without commenting on the merits of policy suggesting parity between one government maintaining the status quo with another proposing wholesale re-nationalisations is comparing apples and pears to try and shoehorn a laboured (no pun intended) point.

[Audrey]

Surely, nobody wants renationalisation. Apart from the cost of buying it back, prices have to lower to make it worthwhile for the public as well as investing in future infrastructure.

What happens is that during government investment falls as pressure mounts for that money to be spent elsewhere.

It’s why the railways were major league shit heaps the last time it was nationalised - ditto water.

[Bathtime]

Labour Party 2017 Manifesto included:

Only the top 5 per cent of earners will be asked to contribute more in tax to help fund our public services.

We will:

Bring private rail companies back into public ownership as their franchises expire.
Regain control of energy supply networks through the alteration of operator license conditions, and transition to a publicly owned, decentralised energy system.
Replace our dysfunctional water system with a network of regional publicly-owned water companies.
Reverse the privatisation of Royal Mail at the earliest opportunity.

We will remove government restrictions that stop councils building homes and begin the biggest council building programme for at least 30 years.

That's just three areas, and they all look pretty left wing me, in the traditional sense.  And none of them were policy during Blair's terms.

Do they say where the cash comes from to cover this expenditure....did I read somewhere borrowing of upto £ 250 billion....??

[horlock07]

Do they say where the cash comes from to cover this expenditure....did I read somewhere borrowing of upto £ 250 billion....??

Well if they get in at any forthcoming election they will inherit the magic money forest the Tories have recently discovered?