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Author Topic: Let's Get Political!  (Read 2142854 times)
mexico red

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« Reply #13500 on: Sunday, July 7, 2024, 12:07:10 »

I read this morning that 87% of the new cabinet went to state schools.

What a difference!
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Legends-Lounge

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« Reply #13501 on: Sunday, July 7, 2024, 12:58:30 »

Fair points about Labour.

But did the self-styled tax-cutting party walk the walk as well as talk the talk?  Absolutely not - the reverse in fact.

I think the Tory record of tax rises (as well as it's disastrous and costly lurch to deep tax cuts) might just hint that the country IS indeed in as big an economic shithole as "the left" would have it.

No they didnít, I agree.

Itís worth remembering that Covid cost the exchequer (us the tax payers) dearly, now Iím not suggesting they got it right, again, far from it but I donít think that particular situation would have been handled any better had labour been in office. We as a country were critically unprepared and had been so for decades. Luckily we kept rolling double sixes, until we didnít. That said itís more borrowing that has to be paid back (if it ever is) on top of the borrowing we already had. We have to stop it at some point, I just donít see it on the horizon, measured in terms of decades. It is frightening, truly frightening and sadly labour has a brilliant track record of spending other peopleís money.

Still we are where we are, the voting system is what it is and is only fair if the party you support gets in. For the record Tory boy here, I stuck to my word and didnít vote, I cannot foresee me ever doing so again.
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Moss

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« Reply #13502 on: Sunday, July 7, 2024, 13:00:02 »

I think a lot of Labour voters are gonna be disappointed

Starmer has no principles- he flips backwards and forwards on most issues and everything he stood on to be leader in 2020 he has gone back on.

Didnít agree with Corbyn and his politics but at least he had principles

So you don't like the electoral system we've had for centuries because its given a result you don't like.

You keep saying Starmer has no principles - his principles are pretty clear. He wanted to win the election and the public didn't previously back Corbyn. What evidence have you got of his abandoning his principles? He's got far more than half the Tory party who were cosying up to Farage and his facist friends to try and stay in power.

Genuine question do you read the Mail or the Express by any chance?
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BoA Vagabond

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« Reply #13503 on: Sunday, July 7, 2024, 13:34:56 »

I'm hoping that Labour will now tax the super-wealthy who own an ever greater amount of the UK assests so wealth can be redistributed back to the middle classes who are losing their wealth. The super rich can't take those assets with them and most don't pay tax here anyway. In many ways they are the real problem as they are doing more than anyone, and certainly more than migrants, to make us all poorer now and making future serfs of our children who will own relatively nothing. The super-wealthy benefit from this and remember that all the furlough money that WE owe, eventually ended up in the hands of the super-wealthy as they own the assets that you pay rent or mortgages on. They have made a fortune since the financial crash and all of us have got much poorer.
I don't see this as a left v right thing. It's just taking back what is ours and should be owned by our children. It's common sense or we end up with nothing and go back to the middle ages. In the long-run, an economy grows if there is economic incentive that hard work will pay off and that society (all of us, including the wealthy) benefit. The super-wealthy have stupendous passive income. They can afford to lose some of their wealth for the greater good of the UK and it's people. I would also ensure that us non super-wealthy kept more of our income, as we tend to spend all of our disposable income which benefits local entrepreneurs and grows the economy as there would be money for investment from the multiplier. In contrast, the super-wealthy use their passive income to buy more assets. Apart from to them, the benefits are limited for the masses.
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« Reply #13504 on: Sunday, July 7, 2024, 14:56:44 »

No they didnít, I agree.

Itís worth remembering that Covid cost the exchequer (us the tax payers) dearly, now Iím not suggesting they got it right, again, far from it but I donít think that particular situation would have been handled any better had labour been in office. We as a country were critically unprepared and had been so for decades. Luckily we kept rolling double sixes, until we didnít. That said itís more borrowing that has to be paid back (if it ever is) on top of the borrowing we already had. We have to stop it at some point, I just donít see it on the horizon, measured in terms of decades. It is frightening, truly frightening and sadly labour has a brilliant track record of spending other peopleís money.

Still we are where we are, the voting system is what it is and is only fair if the party you support gets in. For the record Tory boy here, I stuck to my word and didnít vote, I cannot foresee me ever doing so again.
I know that virtually all politicians at times lack integrity but if that was one yardstick that cost your party your vote this time, I'd say fair play. 

As an out of towner, I know relatively little about the Swindon MPs but I felt Robert Buckland maintained his integrity better than most as a law officer (LC) in government.  Red, blue or other, he seemed the kind I'm happy to see in Parliament.
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Outletred

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« Reply #13505 on: Sunday, July 7, 2024, 17:43:05 »

So you don't like the electoral system we've had for centuries because its given a result you don't like.

You keep saying Starmer has no principles - his principles are pretty clear. He wanted to win the election and the public didn't previously back Corbyn. What evidence have you got of his abandoning his principles? He's got far more than half the Tory party who were cosying up to Farage and his facist friends to try and stay in power.

Genuine question do you read the Mail or the Express by any chance?


I donít think the system is fair whoever wins I did not think so when Boris won 56% of the seats with 44% of the vote either. PR has it drawbacks as well where it would hardly ever lead to majority governments (canít remember the last time when any party had 50% plus of the vote)

That said we do need to find a fairer system. The fact that you can win a third of the vote and win 64% of the seats is not sustainable whichever party.

As for mr flip flop

Trident- he was against it in the past now for
Defend Freedom of movement-  now abandoned
Scrapping tuition fees- abandoned
Private sector outsourcing in the NHS- pledged to end now abandoned and being actively talked about by Streeting
Nationalisation- pledged to bring all public services back- abandoned
28bn a year to spend on green issues- abandoned
Abolish House of Lords- abandoned
Backing of ULEZ- rowed back on
Scrap child benefit cap- abandoned
Introduce rent controls- abandoned
Increase income tax for top 5% of earners- abandoned
A woman could have a penis- again flip flopped days before the election (ask JK Rowling)

Any politician can change their mind but come on the above is farcical.

And by the way I do not read any newspaper nor do I hold a candle for any specific political party
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Legends-Lounge

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« Reply #13506 on: Sunday, July 7, 2024, 20:13:31 »

I know that virtually all politicians at times lack integrity but if that was one yardstick that cost your party your vote this time, I'd say fair play. 

As an out of towner, I know relatively little about the Swindon MPs but I felt Robert Buckland maintained his integrity better than most as a law officer (LC) in government.  Red, blue or other, he seemed the kind I'm happy to see in Parliament.

Canít argue with that. I thought Buckland was a decent egg too.
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WEBBERhyde

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« Reply #13507 on: Sunday, July 7, 2024, 20:15:51 »

The far right in France finding out in real time that they are actually much less popular than they thought is extremely funny.

TrŤs Bon  Pint
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RobertT

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« Reply #13508 on: Sunday, July 7, 2024, 20:21:43 »

I donít think the system is fair whoever wins I did not think so when Boris won 56% of the seats with 44% of the vote either. PR has it drawbacks as well where it would hardly ever lead to majority governments (canít remember the last time when any party had 50% plus of the vote)

That said we do need to find a fairer system. The fact that you can win a third of the vote and win 64% of the seats is not sustainable whichever party.

As for mr flip flop

Trident- he was against it in the past now for
Defend Freedom of movement-  now abandoned
Scrapping tuition fees- abandoned
Private sector outsourcing in the NHS- pledged to end now abandoned and being actively talked about by Streeting
Nationalisation- pledged to bring all public services back- abandoned
28bn a year to spend on green issues- abandoned
Abolish House of Lords- abandoned
Backing of ULEZ- rowed back on
Scrap child benefit cap- abandoned
Introduce rent controls- abandoned
Increase income tax for top 5% of earners- abandoned
A woman could have a penis- again flip flopped days before the election (ask JK Rowling)

Any politician can change their mind but come on the above is farcical.

And by the way I do not read any newspaper nor do I hold a candle for any specific political party


I'm no fan, but much of what you listed above look like financial commitments that they couldn't make given the public purse at the time the election was called for?  I'd imagine they'd like to do some of them still, and may come back to them in time.

Also, why in the fuck does an issue that materially impacts such a small % of the population (but when it does, it's an incredibly personal situation that requires incredible levels of support) get some people so riled up, as if a surgeon is going to pop around and cut your own dick off in your sleep or something.
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Batch
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« Reply #13509 on: Monday, July 8, 2024, 07:41:05 »

"Mr Flip Flop" - I get he's done that a lot, but in general I'd prefer politicians to make the right decision rather than sticking with the first one ad infinitum
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Bob's Orange
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« Reply #13510 on: Monday, July 8, 2024, 08:14:19 »

"Mr Flip Flop" - I get he's done that a lot, but in general I'd prefer politicians to make the right decision rather than sticking with the first one ad infinitum

To be fair Boris did get quite a bit of stick for that behaviour as well, but I do agree with you in principal.
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« Reply #13511 on: Monday, July 8, 2024, 09:52:39 »

They'll get round to them eventually,
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mexico red

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« Reply #13512 on: Monday, July 8, 2024, 11:51:25 »

Still no fucking postal vote
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mexico red

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« Reply #13513 on: Monday, July 8, 2024, 15:49:54 »

Looks like reform actually put up some pretend candidates, there are reports of candidates not turning up at hustings or for the count and no evidence they even exist!!!
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Moss

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« Reply #13514 on: Monday, July 8, 2024, 18:06:03 »

I donít think the system is fair whoever wins I did not think so when Boris won 56% of the seats with 44% of the vote either. PR has it drawbacks as well where it would hardly ever lead to majority governments (canít remember the last time when any party had 50% plus of the vote)

That said we do need to find a fairer system. The fact that you can win a third of the vote and win 64% of the seats is not sustainable whichever party.

As for mr flip flop

Trident- he was against it in the past now for
Defend Freedom of movement-  now abandoned
Scrapping tuition fees- abandoned
Private sector outsourcing in the NHS- pledged to end now abandoned and being actively talked about by Streeting
Nationalisation- pledged to bring all public services back- abandoned
28bn a year to spend on green issues- abandoned
Abolish House of Lords- abandoned
Backing of ULEZ- rowed back on
Scrap child benefit cap- abandoned
Introduce rent controls- abandoned
Increase income tax for top 5% of earners- abandoned
A woman could have a penis- again flip flopped days before the election (ask JK Rowling)

Any politician can change their mind but come on the above is farcical.

And by the way I do not read any newspaper nor do I hold a candle for any specific political party


As others have said - these are things he wants to do but we can't afford to. That is not abandoning your principles.

And with all due respect, perhaps you should stat reading a quality newspaper. If you have no political preference (you don't identify with any political party) why are you bothered about Labour changing policy.

I genuinely don't understand how you cannot support a party. You either believe in left or right wing policies to some extent surely?  No
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