Scottish Independence

[Flashheart]

I'm not sure what your point is.....

The Scot's don't own the rigs that extract the oil?

[moredonboy]

Well chaps I don't come on here very often - but did see Ernie Hunt's free kick all those years ago and still a big Town fan.
I have lived in Orkney since 2003, and I am voting yes.
Since oil/gas was extracted from Scottish waters the TAX revenue (only) went to the UK Exchequer and still does. The resulting money goes into the fucking UK gluepot and gets distributed how the UK government feel at the time.
When we vote yes all the tax revenue will come to Scotland and we can decide how to distribute it fairly.
There are new massive oil/gas fields off the East and West coats of Scotland but this will be a bonus.
We have already reached 50% renewable generation - in 10 years or so Scotland will be energy independent with renewables (hydro for storage, wind, wave and tidal) and no nuclear - and we can the sell you all the oil and gas you want.
I am half Scottish but I do feel we cannot miss this massive opportunity - though the next 2 years might be a little rocky.
Unless the whole world system doesn't crash Scotland will be better than fine.   

[iffy]

Two years? Try twenty.

[Reg Smeeton]

Two years? Try twenty.

2 or 20, this is a vote forever.

What with events in the Middle East, Ukraine, Hong Kong/China and the Eurozone, I wouldn't be too confident about the global situation.

[iffy]

Hiding under a rock and hoping those problems go away isn't much of a plan though.

Russia, China, Iran and others must be rubbing their hands together at the prospect that the UK is about to take itself out of the game, hobble itself economically and stop being a power worth thinking about.

[iffy]

2 or 20, this is a vote forever.

I don't really buy that, either. This feels, at best, 30 years of an awkward, hopeless drifting separation followed by an expensive reunification. At both ends of this Scotland will need a massive bailout.

[Summerof69]

At both ends of this Scotland will need a massive bailout.

Just like the Royal Bank Of Scotland...

[pauld]

Hiding under a rock and hoping those problems go away isn't much of a plan though.

Russia, China, Iran and others must be rubbing their hands together at the prospect that the UK is about to take itself out of the game, hobble itself economically and stop being a power worth thinking about.

Exactly this. Both Scotland and the "rump UK" will be poorer and weaker without each other. I'm not sure who's more deluded, the Scots who think this is a good time to be turning into a micro-state or the Southerners shouting as loud as they can "we're better off without them, can't wait for them to leave", like a jilted boyfriend pretending he'd gone off her anyway. Madness.

[Reg Smeeton]

Exactly this. Both Scotland and the "rump UK" will be poorer and weaker without each other. I'm not sure who's more deluded, the Scots who think this is a good time to be turning into a micro-state or the Southerners shouting as loud as they can "we're better off without them, can't wait for them to leave", like a jilted boyfriend pretending he'd gone off her anyway. Madness.

I expected better from you...the impending yes vote gives us a chance to realign our dysfunctional politics...that can only be a good thing.

[Ardiles]

Never had you down as a Tory, Reg.  Realignment down here (after a Yes vote) would mean centre of gravity shifting to right.  Although extent to which it would happen probably overstated by some.

The world will be a more divided place after a Yes vote.  That's not a positive.  One more international border.  And plenty of families affected...including mine.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed now for a narrow No vote and subsequent federalisation of the UK (Scotland, Wales, NI, English Regions) as pushed by the Lib Dems.  I'm all for local democracy, but some things dealt with Better Together.  And a federal set up would achieve all that.

[pauld]

I expected better from you...the impending yes vote gives us a chance to realign our dysfunctional politics...that can only be a good thing.

Realign it to a permanent Tory majority? Or maybe realign to Tories vs SomeKindOfUKIPStyleHardRight Opposition? Yeah, sounds ideal, Reg. Our political system needs sorting out, but not like that. I've never been a fan of "Anything's got to be better than this" because things quite often can, and do, get a good deal worse.

I'm with Ardiles.

[Ardiles]

Realign it to a permanent Tory majority? Or maybe realign to Tories vs SomeKindOfUKIPStyleHardRight Opposition? Yeah, sounds ideal, Reg. Our political system needs sorting out, but not like that. I've never been a fan of "Anything's got to be better than this" because things quite often can, and do, get a good deal worse.

Sadly, I think there is a great deal of 'anything's got to be better than this' informing the debate in Scotland.  'Westminster' has become a byword for corruption, something bad that has to be replaced.  And Westminster politics has done itself no favours recently, there's no denying it.  But what a lot of folk fail to see, I think, is that politics everywhere is corrupt.  It's not uniquely a Westminster phenomenon.

French politics is corrupt, as is Italian politics, US politics...corruption everywhere.  After a Yes vote, voters in Scotland will have 'freed' themselves from Westminster - and I give it no more than a couple of years before the penny drops and they realise that their own home-grown Holyrood politicians are every bit as shifty.  They'll have achieved fuck all.  Out of the frying pan...

[Red Squirrel]

Well chaps I don't come on here very often - but did see Ernie Hunt's free kick all those years ago and still a big Town fan.
I have lived in Orkney since 2003, and I am voting yes.
Since oil/gas was extracted from Scottish waters the TAX revenue (only) went to the UK Exchequer and still does. The resulting money goes into the fucking UK gluepot and gets distributed how the UK government feel at the time.
When we vote yes all the tax revenue will come to Scotland and we can decide how to distribute it fairly.
There are new massive oil/gas fields off the East and West coats of Scotland but this will be a bonus.
We have already reached 50% renewable generation - in 10 years or so Scotland will be energy independent with renewables (hydro for storage, wind, wave and tidal) and no nuclear - and we can the sell you all the oil and gas you want.
I am half Scottish but I do feel we cannot miss this massive opportunity - though the next 2 years might be a little rocky.
Unless the whole world system doesn't crash Scotland will be better than fine.  

It's very easy for you Orcadians to vote yes ,as you will be mostly sheltered by the consequences of the yes camp winning.(That's about the only thing you can shelter under up there  )
Most of the claims and counter claims are based on guesswork nothing more, but there are some glaring facts, a couple of which are,
North Sea oil will not last forever, what then?
Thousands of jobs WILL be lost in the event of independence.

Do we really wish to risk our pensions and jobs for the sake of a bloody flag, because that is the bottom line. that is what it is all about. (You can still keep your nice new flag by the way!)

If you want to see Scotland in 20 years time under independence take a trip down the road to Skara Brae!

We're Better Together......Vote No..

[iffy]

Well chaps I don't come on here very often - but did see Ernie Hunt's free kick all those years ago and still a big Town fan.
I have lived in Orkney since 2003, and I am voting yes.
Since oil/gas was extracted from Scottish waters the TAX revenue (only) went to the UK Exchequer and still does. The resulting money goes into the fucking UK gluepot and gets distributed how the UK government feel at the time.
When we vote yes all the tax revenue will come to Scotland and we can decide how to distribute it fairly.
There are new massive oil/gas fields off the East and West coats of Scotland but this will be a bonus.
We have already reached 50% renewable generation - in 10 years or so Scotland will be energy independent with renewables (hydro for storage, wind, wave and tidal) and no nuclear - and we can the sell you all the oil and gas you want.
I am half Scottish but I do feel we cannot miss this massive opportunity - though the next 2 years might be a little rocky.
Unless the whole world system doesn't crash Scotland will be better than fine.   

Interesting, very specific point. Was talking to a friend who works on renewables in Glasgow and he was saying that major international investors have put most things on hold until the vote. A yes vote probably means he loses his job, his firm moves to England and all the wind farms the Uk govt is currently planning to put in Scotland go to Northumberland, or else to Denmark.

[Reg Smeeton]

It's very easy for you 'Orcadian's' to vote yes ,as you will be mostly sheltered by the consequences of the yes camp winning.(That's about the only thing you can shelter under up there  )
Most of the claims and counter claims are based on guesswork nothing more, but there are some glaring facts, a couple of which are,
North Sea oil will not last forever, what then?
Thousands of jobs WILL be lost in the event of independence.

Do we really wish to risk our pensions and jobs for the sake of a bloody flag, because that is the bottom line. that is what it is all about. (You can still keep your nice new flag by the way!)

If you want to see Scotland in 20 years time under independence take a trip down the road to Skara Brae!

We're Better Together......Vote No..

I've been to Skara Brae....wonderful place. I suspect in the neolithic, the Orcadians were aware of their fellow inhabitants of these islands, and got on just fine with them.....it was a bit later that it started getting nasty.