Scottish Independence

[Reg Smeeton]

They can have the oil. It's not even a nationalised industry and makes fuck all for the state other than a bit of tax anyway.

When, and it is rather than if now, Sweaties get independence, then they may be able to vote in a government which does nationalise such things as resources/ railways; sorts out land ownership and can pitch defence spending at an appropriate level for a small European offshore island.

[jayohaitchenn]

And how exactly are they going to pay for it? They can't afford to buy the industry back can they?

[Reg Smeeton]

And how exactly are they going to pay for it? They can't afford to buy the industry back can they?

This is the point though, they will be able to decide if and how they want to do things, after the cold hand of Westminster is removed.

[iffy]

This is the point though, they will be able to decide if and how they want to do things, after the cold hand of Westminster is removed.

A 16 year old who leaves home because they want to be independent has the freedom to choose whatever they want, but not many options.

A 16 year old who has just left home has the freedom to choose to go and live in a 100 room mansion if he wants to. He almost certainly doesn't have that option.

The freedom to choose and real options are different things.

The independence debate has confused these two ideas.

[Reg Smeeton]

A 16 year old who leaves home because they want to be independent has the freedom to choose whatever they want, but not many options.

A 16 year old who has just left home has the freedom to choose to go and live in a 100 room mansion if he wants to. He almost certainly doesn't have that option.

The freedom to choose and real options are different things.

The independence debate has confused these two ideas.

But we're not talking about 16 year old kids here, apart from maybe those who've got a vote in the referendum.

[Flashheart]

But we're not talking about 16 year old kids here, apart from maybe those who've got a vote in the referendum.

This may help...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/analogy

[jonny72]

I read about this recently.  While it does seem a little unfair that a resource that currently benefits everyone in the UK would be appropriated by an independent Scotland, that is how these things work.  Countries all around the world are assumed to 'own' the resources within their borders and territorial waters.  If Scotland split from the rest of the UK, it would take about 90% of the UK's remaining oil reserves with it.

Salmond has said the Bank of England and the pound are shared assets of the UK and Scotland must be given it's share.

I wonder how he'll react if Cameron demands the same deal with the natural resources in Scotland?

When the actual fine print is agreed on the split up, I suspect a lot of people in Scotland will be somewhat upset that they don't get everything that Salmond has promised them.

[Flashheart]

So Scotland may 'own' the Oil Fields.

But who owns the rigs and the rest of the infrastructure?

[Reg Smeeton]

So Scotland may 'own' the Oil Fields.

But who owns the rigs and the rest of the infrastructure?

In point of fact the UK's offshore oil is owned by the Crown....as will still be the case on independence.

[Flashheart]

In point of fact the UK's offshore oil is owned by the Crown....as will still be the case on independence.

In which case any Scot's claims to 'own the oil fields' is a bit of a damp squib?

[Reg Smeeton]

In which case any Scot's claims to 'own the oil fields' is a bit of a damp squib?

Another advantage for the Sweaties, is that they will be able to devise a written constitution, something the UK lacks, where procedure is carried out by convention, much of it archaic.

In our unwritten constitution, Parliament undertakes the elements nominally ceded to the Crown, like defence and justice, although of course Scotland has always had its own legal system

Therefore the Scottish Parliament can carry on this tradition if they wish, or write something new into their constitution.

[Flashheart]

I don't see how the crown. or more likely non-Scottish corporations,  owning the rigs and what not is an advantage for the Scots.

[Reg Smeeton]

I don't see how the crown. or more likely non-Scottish corporations,  owning the rigs and what not is an advantage for the Scots.

The Crown sells licences for mineral extraction rights, and taxes gas/oil produced.

The Scots benefit from rig equipment, building and maintenance etc

[Flashheart]

But they still have to pay for it.

How is that a benefit?

[Reg Smeeton]

But they still have to pay for it.

How is that a benefit?

I'm not sure what your point is.....consider this, SY's lot who produce slightly more oil, but not a lot more oil than UK (most of which is in Scotland's domain) have put the proceeds into a fund, for the long term benefit of its people which now stands at $660 billion...that is the sort of benefit which could accrue from independence.