Adver News: Wray set to act on 'cheat' slur

[ghanimah]

http://www.swindontownfc.co.uk/news/article/footballleaguepaper-613193.aspx

Apology received, damages paid. No sign of the horsewhipping though

Fair enough and rather prompt too.

"It has been made abundantly clear to me by Swindon supporters that I have made a grave misrepresentation."

I bet it has...

[jonny72]

Portsmouth bought their FA Cup win effectively by financial doping. Should that be considered cheating (probably) and if so should they be stripped of that title? And if so, how would that be applied more generally? e.g. how far back do you go? Would it only be triggered by an insolvency event? etc etc

Stripping titles isn't the answer, putting in place the correct financial controls and heavier punishments are the way to go.

I'm in favour of a financial health check at the end of the season (especially to ensure you are able to service any debts over the coming 12 months). If you don't pass it then immediate punishments, transfer ban, points deduction etc. Then if a club goes in to administration they should be kicked out of the league, unless it wasn't their fault.

At present the benefits out weigh the negatives, so there is no incentive to keep your finances under control.

[pauld]

Stripping titles isn't the answer, putting in place the correct financial controls and heavier punishments are the way to go.

I'm in favour of a financial health check at the end of the season (especially to ensure you are able to service any debts over the coming 12 months). If you don't pass it then immediate punishments, transfer ban, points deduction etc. Then if a club goes in to administration they should be kicked out of the league, unless it wasn't their fault.

At present the benefits out weigh the negatives, so there is no incentive to keep your finances under control.

I'd agree with the financial health check and heavier penalties, but kicked out of the league is a bit harsh. And not sure how you'd prove "wasn't their fault". One thing I'd like to see is more punishment of the individuals - all too often you see irresponsible or downright criminal chairmen/directors leave a club knee-deep in shite, they walk away scot-free and it's the incoming board that's left to clean up the mess and take the punishment imposed on the club. A directors' bond of some sort, forfeit on insolvency and used to pay off creditors, might be some sort of answer, but that would prohibit most supporter directors as is the case at Swansea etc.

[jonny72]

By not their fault I mean something like a TV deal collapsing.

Again, I don't see the benefit of the director health checks. They're too easy to bypass and no indication of what they'll be like in the future. With the correct financial controls in place in doesn't matter who is in charge.

Think a change in the mindset of fans is required as well though. I've even seen a few people on here wanting a new sugar daddy to come in so we can continue living beyond our means and no doubt running up even larger debts. Clubs need to live within their means and fans need to acknowledge and accept that. I still think it's wrong that we've been losing £1m plus a season for as long as I can remember.

[dporter]

The whole football structure would need to be changed - transfer deals, wages, tv deals, merchandising etc. The fact that big teams like Manchester United are in debt just shows how the money in football has just gone crazy. There are some deterrents in place but if someone's rich owner is wanting to get out of their club and take the losses themselves it's ultimately the club and fans that suffer. Potentially ourselves included!

[Simon Pieman]

The whole football structure would need to be changed - transfer deals, wages, tv deals, merchandising etc. The fact that big teams like Manchester United are in debt just shows how the money in football has just gone crazy. There are some deterrents in place but if someone's rich owner is wanting to get out of their club and take the losses themselves it's ultimately the club and fans that suffer. Potentially ourselves included!

That's exactly it.

Only way I could see to stop this mess is some sort of luxury tax like they do in Major League Baseball, I won't explain it as anyone can look it up on wikipedia/google.

That and fairer distribution of television money.

[dporter]

That and fairer distribution of television money.

That would really help smaller teams. Currently L2 clubs get £300k, L1 £800k then the jump to the Championship is £5m. Agreed that there isn't so much interest in the lower leagues but that sort of jump in income would/could solve no end of financial worries for so many clubs if it was more fairly distributed.

[cheltred69]

That depends on your view of fairness.
As supporters of a lower league club we'd naturally support a less skewed distribution.
However, the power is the hands of the larger clubs who would no doubt argue that the produt which generates the income to TV is the PL, and that hardly anyone subscribes to Sky to see League 1 and 2 matches.
To change it as you suggest would need a sense of caring and nuturing of the grass roots and the various levels of football in the UK.  I can't see this returning, particularly now that most top clubs are the playthings of overseas investors who wouldn't be expected to have any sense of looking after the game as a whole in England.

[kerry red]

That would really help smaller teams. Currently L2 clubs get £300k, L1 £800k then the jump to the Championship is £5m. Agreed that there isn't so much interest in the lower leagues but that sort of jump in income would/could solve no end of financial worries for so many clubs if it was more fairly distributed.

The problem with any club that suddenly acquires extra income is that it inevitably disappears on wages so the club itself benefits very little.

The truth of the matter is that while we are a decent sized club in League 1, in the Championship we would be minnows a la Peterborough.

A middling season in the Championship would get us an average of about 10,000 IMO.

Simply not good enough. The people of Swindon just do not want to turn out and support the club in any great numbers

[Bob's Orange]

The problem with any club that suddenly acquires extra income is that it inevitably disappears on wages so the club itself benefits very little.

The truth of the matter is that while we are a decent sized club in League 1, in the Championship we would be minnows a la Peterborough.

A middling season in the Championship would get us an average of about 10,000 IMO.

Simply not good enough. The people of Swindon just do not want to turn out and support the club in any great numbers

Looking at Peterborough as an example, they are having a pretty poor season and I have seen that their crowds have dropped around the 6k mark. I don't know what their wage budget is of course but surely they must me making a pretty big loss with these sort of crowds?

[Ardiles]

A middling season in the Championship would get us an average of about 10,000 IMO.

Simply not good enough. The people of Swindon just do not want to turn out and support the club in any great numbers

God knows we've done this to death, but I disagree.  We are averaging 8,400 this season.  We would add 1,000+ to the average gate simply because of the larger away attendances brought by the bigger Championship clubs.  (If you think that home support would be largely unaffected by promotion to the Championship, you're probably about right with your 10,000 estimate.)

Personally, I think 11,500 to 12,000 would be nearer the mark...pushing on towards 14,000 or 15,000 with investment in the Club's infrastructure, particularly the stadium.  If it's possible in Swansea and Reading, it's possible in Swindon.

[dporter]

The problem with any club that suddenly acquires extra income is that it inevitably disappears on wages so the club itself benefits very little.

The truth of the matter is that while we are a decent sized club in League 1, in the Championship we would be minnows a la Peterborough.

A middling season in the Championship would get us an average of about 10,000 IMO.

Simply not good enough. The people of Swindon just do not want to turn out and support the club in any great numbers

Yes we would be minnows but even with increased spending - if we didn't have our £13m deficit and started from 0 -  £5m really would not leave us very short of breaking even, add to that gate receipts, merchandise, cup run money etc and it would be fully achievable!

[ahounsell]

That would really help smaller teams. Currently L2 clubs get £300k, L1 £800k then the jump to the Championship is £5m. Agreed that there isn't so much interest in the lower leagues but that sort of jump in income would/could solve no end of financial worries for so many clubs if it was more fairly distributed.

The problem is that it wouldnt solve the financial worries, it would actually make them worse! If all clubs in league one were given an extra £1m per season all of them would go out and spend it on players because they would all assume that everyone else is going to spend it on players, so if you dont you'll get left behind!

Thats why the wage cap is so crucial to making lower league clubs sustainable.

[Peter Venkman]

In many ways ahoundsell is right, if more money comes in then most (if not all clubs) would spend that on more wages for better player, when in reality they are the same players they can just be paid more for their services.

What is really needed is in my opinion is a divisional wage cap per player, how the fuck can any player at our level justify wages in excess of £3k per week? I know it was tried in the 50's and 60's and Jimmy Hill stopped it because it was unfair at the time, but at the time players were paid a maximum wage of £20 per week when the average wage of the nation was £19 per week.

Maybe to cap players wages per division of £30k top flight, £10k Championship, £3k div 1 and £2k div 2.

Obviously thats just as an example, but how can anyone want more than that per week JUST for playing football?

Just my thoughts and I doubt anyone will agree with them.

And yes I understand that players may well move abroad to places like Italy or Spain or Russia and be paid more....but thats their choice, if they want to leave then let them there are plenty of players would not leave in pursuit of wealth.

[dporter]

I agree with both of you on the wage cap. The gulf between the divisions is too big for a lot of clubs to bridge now.

With regards extra funding for clubs, they all have a business plan like any other company and if they stick to this plan with the intention of making a profit they shouldn't be spending/wasting any extra payments they receive. I know obviously some clubs don't adhere to their plans hence their losses. Part of our plan was to include extra revenue schemes (via stadium development etc) and to achieve promotion and therefore become a profitable club. This doesn't happen overnight and it's unfortunate that our owners are wanting to sell but there is potential for the future and this should make us an attractive prospect for future investors.