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Author Topic: Whats wrong with football?  (Read 1190399 times)
Berniman
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« Reply #5520 on: Tuesday, November 16, 2021, 12:00:02 »

The first one didnít touch his hand
The second one was hit towards him from a couple of yards away.
Neither should have been given.

Nor should Englandís goal have been disallowed either.

Watch the replay of the first one, clearly clipped off of hand that was up in the air above his head.  The second was hit towards him from a couple of yards away yes, but his arm was out from his body and clearly blocked the shot.

The handball rule is hardly ideal and in some cases unfair, but it is the rule so both were valid penalties.  The examples I think are entirely unfair is when the ball hits the arm when the arm is in front of the body (the arms have got to be held somewhere) and if it hadn't had hit the arm it would have hit the body anyway.  In both of these case the arms were well outsode of the body and definitely affected the balls route towards the goal - did they stop a goal, possiblily, but they certainly affected a chance for a goal.

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« Reply #5521 on: Tuesday, November 16, 2021, 12:19:19 »

Quote
The handball rule is hardly ideal and in some cases unfair, but it is the rule so both were valid penalties.  
this.

it drives me nuts. defenders having to defend with their hands behind their backs... just in case.

is like someone played FIFA 16, ball blasted from a yard hits hand... penalty.. yeah let's do that in real football

but it is the rule.
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RobertT

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« Reply #5522 on: Tuesday, November 16, 2021, 13:04:31 »

Personally, I'd change the rule.  If the ball touches a hand, regardless of intent, a free kick or penalty is awarded.  Just make it clear cut and simple.

Yes, there will be penalties given when a ball strikes a hand from a few feet away.  The onus would be on the defender in such situation to make a judgement call - can I block this confidently with anywhere by the hand, or do I need to be far more careful about where I am chucking my body.

The concept of intent is daft - without everyone sitting down and presenting evidence, you cannot really know, especially in games without VAR.  Even then it's an educated guess.

Obviously I never played any decent level, but every time the ball ever hit my hands I'd instantly wait for the whistle to go, regardless of whether I was trying to touch the ball with my hands or not.
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« Reply #5523 on: Tuesday, November 16, 2021, 14:05:22 »

couldn't disagree more. other than there being and always has been subjectivity on what is handball.

now offside, that's a different story
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horlock07

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« Reply #5524 on: Tuesday, November 16, 2021, 14:07:32 »

Not sure there is an easy solution to this which doesn't just heavily weigh things even more against defenders.

We already have a generation of 'exciting' attackers, a large part of whose game is to run at defenders really quickly in the knowledge that if the defender goes near then they fall over and win a free kick/penalty. With hand ball it was already getting the case that players knew that if you got into the area and were near a defender if you kicked the ball at their hand 9 times out of 10 you get a penalty.

Short of removing defenders hands (might become policy at Newcastle United anyway) not sure what can be done.
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« Reply #5525 on: Tuesday, November 16, 2021, 14:13:22 »

Personally, I'd change the rule.  If the ball touches a hand, regardless of intent, a free kick or penalty is awarded.  Just make it clear cut and simple.

Yes, there will be penalties given when a ball strikes a hand from a few feet away.  The onus would be on the defender in such situation to make a judgement call - can I block this confidently with anywhere by the hand, or do I need to be far more careful about where I am chucking my body.

The concept of intent is daft - without everyone sitting down and presenting evidence, you cannot really know, especially in games without VAR.  Even then it's an educated guess.

Obviously I never played any decent level, but every time the ball ever hit my hands I'd instantly wait for the whistle to go, regardless of whether I was trying to touch the ball with my hands or not.

What this conversation proves is the more that FIFA try to improve the game and itís rules, in this case VAR, the more clouded they get. Over the last thirty to forty years there have been numerous initiatives, rule changes and interpretations so VAR is nothing new other than the technology aspect in trying to clarify the rules. Possibly in equal measure players, managers have tried in some cases successfully to be more clever in their approach to said changes. This kind of collective conversation will still be on going in twenty years I suspect.
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« Reply #5526 on: Tuesday, November 16, 2021, 14:16:11 »

Not sure there is an easy solution to this which doesn't just heavily weigh things even more against defenders.

We already have a generation of 'exciting' attackers, a large part of whose game is to run at defenders really quickly in the knowledge that if the defender goes near then they fall over and win a free kick/penalty. With hand ball it was already getting the case that players knew that if you got into the area and were near a defender if you kicked the ball at their hand 9 times out of 10 you get a penalty.

Short of removing defenders hands (might become policy at Newcastle United anyway) not sure what can be done.

Short of removing defenders hands (might become policy at Newcastle United anyway) not sure what can be done.

Made me chuckle somewhat. Quite an escalation on a week or two weeks wage fine for club discipline infringements.
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Jimmy Quimm

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« Reply #5527 on: Tuesday, November 16, 2021, 14:23:02 »

Let's change the ruling handball should be just that not anywhere below the armpit
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« Reply #5528 on: Tuesday, November 16, 2021, 14:37:26 »

some rule changes have been positive.

the backpass rule...

and more subs named on bench

and, er
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Jimmy Quimm

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« Reply #5529 on: Tuesday, November 16, 2021, 14:46:46 »

It's ok having seven named players on the bench but many of them up and down the country never get used so it seems pointless😀
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AMayesIng

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« Reply #5530 on: Tuesday, November 16, 2021, 14:51:45 »



Short of removing defenders hands (might become policy at Newcastle United anyway)

 
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RobertT

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« Reply #5531 on: Tuesday, November 16, 2021, 15:20:02 »

Let's change the ruling handball should be just that not anywhere below the armpit

I'd take my harsh approach of handball is handball, but make it anything below the elbow, essentially ruling out the ability to catch a ball with a degree of ease.  If players want to spend their time aiming at hands rather than a goal, let them crack on.  As a defender, I'd take that.
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« Reply #5532 on: Tuesday, November 16, 2021, 15:22:02 »

I'd take my harsh approach of handball is handball, but make it anything below the elbow, essentially ruling out the ability to catch a ball with a degree of ease.  If players want to spend their time aiming at hands rather than a goal, let them crack on.  As a defender, I'd take that.

fairly unheroic 9000th post.
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Jimmy Quimm

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« Reply #5533 on: Tuesday, November 16, 2021, 15:23:12 »

Good shout Robert. I woud also stop the clock and have it on display like in Rugby so everyone knows how long there is left to play.
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DiV
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« Reply #5534 on: Tuesday, November 16, 2021, 15:31:39 »

Should only be handball ifÖ

1. The player gains an obvious advantage
and/or
2. Itís deliberate

If a shot is smashed at a defender from 2 yards away and his hand/arm is in a position where if they didnít exist it would still hit another part of his body. Not handball.
If they are raised in a position where if they didnít exist the ball would continue on its original trajectory but does not because of them. Handball.

If a shot is going high and wide and it just about brushes someoneís hand that makes no difference to the balls trajectory or anything in the entire universe. Not handball.

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