finally justice for the 96?

[Coca Fola]

What are your views on 9/11, the holocaust etc?

[DMR]

What are your views on 9/11, the holocaust etc?

Totally irrelevant. But, 9/11 is different - in the sense that I am old enough to have seen it and understand it, and with people like my Dad who have worked in the States, I could empaphise more with that, than I can with Hillsborough.

I don't think you can compare 96 deaths in a situation that got totally out of control, to 3000, or 6 million, deliberate murders.

[Coca Fola]

Nah I was just getting at the whole "it doesn't bother me so I'll make a point of it" thing. You wouldn't try and argue that point for one of those events.

[DMR]

Well if they were discussed on here then maybe I would have an opinion - I think most TEFers will know I have an opinion on most things - they may or may not be one of indifference.

Anyway, you, and this, is detracting from the whole thread.

Justice for the 96? It would appear they have got it. How much me, you, Mex, Sax or any other chump on here cares or doesnt care doesn't really matter now. The truth will out - and it has.

[DRS]

I will say one thing Dave,Joey Barton and others worked fucking hard for today to happen and have spent countless hours with the families,me personally i got upset watching it the other night so can understand why people who have been in the company of these family members may shed a tear.

[ghanimah]

I don't think you can compare 96 deaths in a situation that got totally out of control, to 3000, or 6 million, deliberate murders.

Hillsborough wasn't the result of "a situation that got totally out of control", it was entirely preventable.

[TheDukeOfBanbury]

I remember that day.

Swindon were at home and the news came in on the car radio going home. I remember the silence in the car but I remembered the TV being on at my parents house when I got in. Just staring at the carnage.

How can anyone have an opinion on this. The facts are the truth is now out and people have lost their loved ones. Nothing will bring them back, only the small consolation that a "sorry" has been made today.

I heard what Cameron said today, from the radio  and do you know what a tear appeared in my eye.
Not because of the speech (it certainly was a "good" one) but for the sadness, waste and cruelty that has now unfolded.
Just the same old fucking words from a government but will anything come out of this, Justice ? and what will happen to those that lied ?
More than likely nothing...............For those 96 I hope I am wrong.

[THE FLASH]

Cameron has had to carry the can for this ,poor fucker....still....it was a Tory government in power at the time so tough shit really innit!

[Ƭ̵̬̊: The Artist Formerly Known as CWIG]

I honestly feel that the people that criticize scousers for "banging on about it" really do not understand what happened or the way it was reported.

The Plod's attitude towards many football fans is that we are subhuman scumbags, we are often treated with less respect than a pedophile or a rapist might get. Treated completely without common courtesy and denied basic requests like the use of a toilet. Their general attitude is to assume trouble making is taking place without any substance or reason to believe this and their methods and tactics often cause more trouble than they prevent out of peoples frustration of the way they are being treated.

This happens all the time, all over the country yet nothing is done because 'It's just football fans' and they can put it down to hooliganism....the general public view if something unjust happens to a football fan is that they probably deserved it and had it coming without any idea of the details of what happened. The only way The FA Cup Semi Final of April 15, 1989 between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest was different was because 96 people died. The police played on that general view of football fans from the public and ran with it, used it to cover up their own failings.

96 people died for fuck sake, put yourself in Liverpool's position? Ok so we're not going to take 24,000 away anytime soon (Wembley trips excluded) but on a smaller scale, say we tool two and a half thousand away somewhere and 9 or 10 people never returned, then we got the blame for what happened completely unfairly? I think we'd all have a giant chip on our shoulders for decades to come as well, don't you?

[chalkies_shorts]

I think its easy for fans of a certain age to empaphise. As Chalky above says football fans back then were treated with nothing but complete and utter contempt - the lowest of the low. The police could do whatever they wanted to do with you and the magistrates would back them up - you had no rights, you were a worthless piece of shit, you were sub human, you were gulity of whatever a copper said you did, even if you had witnessess to the contrary. The police were unaccountable. There were no mobile phones, less cameras etc so it was your word against theirs.
This institutionalised contempt manifested itself in Hillsborough and the lying, cheating cowards tried to cover it up by playing the football scum card. Talk about having your cake and eating it.
I won't replay the events but virtually all football fans knew what went on. A friend of mine was in the Forest end and thney could see what was going no and tried to get on the pitch to help and was baton charged. He lives with this every day  being so near yet being unable to help. Seeing people die in front of his eyes.
If you're a football fan of a certain age, it could have been you. I can remember numerous occasions with Town where I struggled to breathe, Mansfield, Luton, The Scum. Any of these could have been a Hillsborough but they weren't.
I admire Hicks, I admire any of the families, i admire the people at the game - they've got to live with this every day. The uselless pieces of shit who have escaped punishment (Dukenfield etc) probably live in a world of hell caused by their cowardly, inhumane arrogance and contempt for their fellow man.
I want this talked about in 100 years so as we don't have another one. Its like i still want all Nazis hunted down until their final breath.
I hope this gives some semblance of closure to the families but I doubt it.
 And Mex - as for safe standing, maybe it can't be reintroduced because the police can't be trusted not because the fans can't behave.

 

[TheMajorSTFC]

Good post ChalkyWhite, It's something terrible that happened and the way the police have covered things up over the past 23 years is absolutely shameful. Will something be done about it now though? I'm not so sure. I do believe however the families of those 96 want closure for who they believe is responsible. Now that is has been found I hope it goes someway to giving them that closure.

[Ƭ̵̬̊: The Artist Formerly Known as CWIG]

Goalkeeper Bruce Grobbelaar, a couple of yards from the unfolding disaster, was one of the first to raise the alarm.

He said: "There were people with their faces pinned against the fence saying to me, 'Bruce, can you help me. We can't breathe'. So I asked a policewoman to open the gate and she said, 'We have to wait for our boss to give the word'."

How many times have Swindon turned up to an away game with more fans than seats/space for fans, with an additional space available be it the end behind the goal at Barnet or thousands of empty seats at Plymouth and despite clearly being able to resolve the problem at a moments notice by opening up the additional end or simply moving segregation netting but the stewards have to "wait for the boss to give the word" No ones going to die from it, given the difference in stadia and the lack of fences, etc but it's the same old attitude. Incredibly incompetent.

[red sheldon]

Well if they were discussed on here then maybe I would have an opinion - I think most TEFers will know I have an opinion on most things - they may or may not be one of indifference.

Anyway, you, and this, is detracting from the whole thread.

Justice for the 96? It would appear they have got it. How much me, you, Mex, Sax or any other chump on here cares or doesnt care doesn't really matter now. The truth will out - and it has.

I think you have missed the point that the only reason why Justice has finally come out is because people have banged on about it and been boring, without that happening the truth wouldn't have come out.  It is about empathy for other people and other football fans who as we all know have had to put up with an awful lot of shit and lies over the years(Oxford fans excluded as thats all true)

[Batch]

I can sort of relate to DMR's viewpoint. He can't remember it happening. Of course you don't have to have seen it to be able to show compassion, but it must be different.

The only thing I can draw a parallel to is Bloody Sunday and the Saville Report of 2010

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10320609

Its an equally horrible thing, maybe moreso, and I am glad the report came out. But it doesn't stir the same emotions as Hillsborough.

I hope the responsible get what they deserve. Nobody should go to watch a football match and not come home through the incompetence of those in charge. No family should have to go through hell for all these years, knowing the truth had been covered up through lies and suppression.

[Matchworn Shirts]

Maybe those supporters who forced in without tickets should shoulder the blame, oh wait couldn't possibly be that.
It is sad that 96 lost their lives but the whole of that club & fan base always demands sympathy for one thing or another..but it's never their fault.