Public sector pensions strike?

[jonny72]

I've always been against strikes and always will be.

But there is a massive amount of bullshit being spread about the pensions by both the Government and the Trade Unions. One says the current pensions can't be supported long term and the other says they can. Someone isn't telling the truth though I suspect it is probably somewhere in the middle.

Though it is something the Labour government should have tackled but didn't have the bollocks to have a run in with the unions, more interested in staying in power than doing what needed to be done.

[Samdy Gray]

But there is a massive amount of bullshit being spread about the pensions by both the Government and the Trade Unions. One says the current pensions can't be supported long term and the other says they can. Someone isn't telling the truth though I suspect it is probably somewhere in the middle.

More people living longer = More people claiming state pension = less people of working age = less tax revenue = lower funding for state pension

[Batch]

As Sam says its ya classic ageing population which is the long term issue. Short to medium term the Government is fucked given the bale outs and the borrowing to do so. They have to make cuts to pay it back, which the unions would rather come from elsewhere but which it seems to me isn't really an option. Cuts will be made everywhere. I think Thatcher had it right with unions! (runs and hides).

I think the old adage "There are three sides of an argument - your side, my side and the truth" applies here. I'd think the Government will buckle and compromise. 

My Mrs is working at her school tomorrow, the scab Then again if she was striking I'd be disgusted with her.

[Samdy Gray]

I realise I said state pension, but it works the same for any defined benefit pension scheme.

[jonny72]

More people living longer = More people claiming state pension = less people of working age = less tax revenue = lower funding for state pension

I get that.

What I don't get is some of the unions saying their pensions are fully funded at the moment and that there not likely to be any issues for the foreseeable future. But then I don't really understand how the public sector pensions are setup and where the payouts come from. I assume there is some kind of separate fund for at least some of them, based on what the teachers have been saying.

[ron dodgers]

I think I'll take me pension at 55 - just in case I don't get to take it at all

[janaage]

No sympathy over the pension issue at all.  The public sector are still going to receive a very good pension should they stay in their schemes and should be grateful of that. Us private pension members have all had to endure some financial pain in recent times and it's a sign of the times that that pain has spread.

We're up the creek here and striking isn't going to help matters, well that's what I think anyway.

On a side issue will traffic wardens be going on strike tomorrow? 

[Samdy Gray]

I don't know exact figures, but at the moment contributions into the scheme (plus fund growth) will cover the pensions paid out of the scheme. So the unions are right in that sense. They're just being a little narrow minded and glossing over the fact that there will be massive problems in years to come because there will be more people drawing money out than people paying contributions in.

[leefer]

No sympathy over the pension issue at all.  The public sector are still going to receive a very good pension should they stay in their schemes and should be grateful of that. Us private pension members have all had to endure some financial pain in recent times and it's a sign of the times that that pain has spread.

We're up the creek here and striking isn't going to help matters, well that's what I think anyway.

On a side issue will traffic wardens be going on strike tomorrow?  

I agree with most of that Jan though if you started a job years back and the pay/conditions were poor but the pension good it is shit if that contract is broken or the goal posts moved which means all those years are worthless...if you get my meaning.

Why not put up National insurance while people work.....so that when they are retired they get a higher state pension....of course it would take a generation for it to work properly but we have to start something soon...and fast.

[janaage]

I think I'll take me pension at 55 - just in case I don't get to take it at all

How old are you Ron? As I wouldn't be surprised to see that age be increased before too long.  55 is very young to take your pension to be honest. You could have 30 years or so of needing that pension. Depending on pension fund value I suppose you could take your TFC and leave the rest as nil income drawdown, but even so it's a young age to take it.

[janaage]

I agree with most of that Jan though if you started a job years back and the pay/conditions were poor but the pension good it is shit if that contract is broken or the goal posts moved which means all those years are worthless...if you get my meaning.

Why not put up National insurance while people work.....so that when they are retired they get a higher state pension....of course it would take a generation for it to work properly but we have to start something soon...and fast.

NI and income tax will be merged before to long, so they may not need to increase it as such as collecting it may prove to be a whole lot easier, not sure if this makes sense, but easier collection equals cheaper costs, therefore you could leave the income tax/NI contribution levels at similar rates to today and income (for HMRC/govt) should increase.

(I haven't really thought this through - but it could work - maybe)

[Samdy Gray]

Why not put up National insurance while people work.....so that when they are retired they get a higher state pension....of course it would take a generation for it to work properly but we have to start something soon...and fast.

We already have S2P.

[jonny72]

I agree with most of that Jan though if you started a job years back and the pay/conditions were poor but the pension good it is shit if that contract is broken or the goal posts moved which means all those years are worthless...if you get my meaning.

That sums up the public sector mentality. They think they should have a job for life on the same or better terms that they started on and if it pushes the entire country to the point of bankruptcy and means everyone else has to pay massive taxes to cover them then tough. The world doesn't work like that and hasn't for a long time, they need to get out of cloud cuckoo land and back to reality with the rest of us.

[Nomoreheroes]

The simplistic point is that the benefits of being a public sector work have always been good pension and job security. The negatives have been poor pay compared to the private sector.

In recent years there has been a massive push to increase productivity in the civil service. In order to do this they have paid people from the private sector to come in and shake things up. This has resulted in some of these 'seniors' receiving better pay.

In the last year or so the media has been trying to blacken the name of civil servants by claiming that they are all over paid (based upon some of the senior civil service pay packets).

My job security (and all benefits that I had within the job) have disappeared in past few years. I work comparable hours to those in the private sector and get a fraction of the pay.

Now, my pension is being eroded, but unlike some of the unions, my union is not taking industrial action, but is instead holding a bake sale in order to collect funds for 'our suffering brothers'!

I won't be buying a cake because I have had to take leave to stay at home and look after the kids!

[janaage]

S2P's a load of shit.  The amount of times they've changed the state graduated scheme/SERPS/S2P-accrual rate/flat rate, goes to prove that.