british and proud.....

[flammableBen]

Numbered your post to make it easier for me to answer.

Presuming you really believe the majority of the EDL are only against militant Islam, and not just racist against muslims; Do you really thing campaigning against new mosques other islamic centres does more to encourage non-fundamentalist liberal (particularly young) muslims away from militancy or towards it?


I fully support a 'banning order'  if you like on new mosques and Islamic centres from being built, and I think that it needs to be introduced to prevent the 'Muslim Youth' from being dragged into the extreme element within the religion, the reason being that Mosques are a hotbed for extreme Islam. http://www.religionnewsblog.com/25715/undercover-film-shows-pupils-being-beaten-and-taught-hatred-in-britains-muslim-schools

You didn't really answer the question, but I take it you believe that Islamic centres are such a danger that openly campaining against them outweighs the risks of further marginalising Muslims into fundamentalism?

If I could find a Catholic school where a kid had been abused by a priest, would that be enough for you to campaign against the closure of Catholic schools?

Do you think that all Islamic education centres are like that based on one film?

(My own view is that there shouldn't be any faith schools, be it CofE, catholic or Muslim, but I wouldn't pick out Muslim as particularly bad).

Do you think increasing the perceived isolation of Muslim communities and as such raising their exposure to internal fundamentalist influences is worth it to complete the aim of raising the profile of the EDL in the media?


2. The EDL was formed spontaneously when a homecoming March in Luton was met with Muslims screaming at the soldiers, its never fully been about the media coverage. I think Muslim community's isolate themselves and its not the way they are perceived, its the way they are.

Not answered the question again.

Is that a "they started it argument"? If the Muslims who were screaming at soldiers had been beaten up by some ex-armed forces or something the day before, would that make it ok for you?

What makes you think the Muslim community isolates itself? They obviously express faith together, but that's by definitions, you're not a non-muslim if you're not going to muslim prayer. How much day to day interaction do you have with Muslims? Did you grow up with many at your Catholic school? Have you ever considered that it's you who are isolated?

What's your perception of Muslim people living in Britain (both foreign and British)? What percentage do you think are militant?

3. I don't have a problem with Muslims in Britain, I have a problem with Muslims who practise Islam's extreme element... As i've said 100 times before on the TEF  

Again you didn't answer the question, but you did just say that "Islamic Extremists are NOT a minority.".

Do you really think that the majority of British Muslims are extremist? If so do you think there's something special about Islam which makes you an extremist by definition? Even so, the huge majority of British Muslims aren't fundamentalist. I can pick as many fucking horrible things out the bible as you can out of the Qur'an. Actually they're pretty fucking similar.

If you're talking more from a world wide situation where there are still countries which practice some fairly harsh islamic law (mainly thanks to the west's interfering in countires for it's own means - but that's a different argument), wouldn't you be better off fighting that world wide by joining human rights groups and helping raise awareness to situations in Iran and Saudi Arabia?

What steps, either you personally or the EDL in general, do you think the government should take to combat militant Islam which they aren't already doing? If there aren't any, what are you campaigning for?

4. I personally think they should ban new mosques being constructed in England to prevent the hotbeds being created I mentioned in #1, I am compaining for this as I went to a protest in Luton not all that long ago (Not the main Luton one) to protest against a mosque/muslim prayer room being opened in the new Luton shopping centre.

You seem to really think that Islam is a threat, if that was really the case wouldn't it have been a problem when most of them first moved here? There's been a large Islamic community in Britain for decades.

Doesn't the fact that it's only a sudden "threat" now, indicate that it's a more complex political situation, and not to do with the religion itself? By continuously attacking the religion are you further politicising it and making it worse?

Linking into above when I asked if maybe it's you who's isolated, if you are wrong (and you are), and 99.9%+ of British Muslims aren't islamic extremists, then you might look back at your actions in a few years time with some big shame. You're basically attacking individuals' rights to practice their faith. Is that something you'd agree with doing?

How would you have felt if at 12 years old some skin heads had come along to campaign against you and your family because you went to a catholic school?

Have you heard the "When I was young, and had no sense...." song at Swindon games? The one which says "fuck the pope and the IRA"?

If that wasn't just a football song but being aimed at you personally, and with hatred because of your background (presuming you aren't an IRA member, but then the majority or Muslims aren't terrorists) how would you feel? Probably followed up with songs of fuck off back to Ireland, even if you aren't Irish.

[pauld]

Catholic churches are a hotbed for a bit of kiddie fiddling, shall we get them to pack it all in as well or is it all cushty cos they're white?

The EDL don't have a particular problem with kiddie fiddlers, one of their founding leaders has a conviction for child porn, as this article from The Times in January shows:

Far-right ‘hero’ is a convicted paedophile

A leader of the English Defence League who was described as a “political prisoner” after being jailed for violence at a march had already been placed on the sex offenders register for downloading indecent images of children, The Times can reveal.

The far-right group launched a campaign to free Richard Price, co-ordinator of the West Midlands division of the EDL, after he was jailed last month for violent behaviour. But Price, 41, had been convicted in June 2010 of making four indecent images of children, and possessing cocaine and crack cocaine. That conviction followed an earlier arrest in 2009 for public order offences believed to have been connected with EDL marches. Police were understood to have seized and analysed his computer, leading to the discovery of sexual images of children that he had downloaded. His home was also searched and the drugs were found.

Price admitted four counts of making indecent images of children and two charges of possessing cocaine when he appeared at Birmingham Crown Court. He was banned from owning a computer for a year, given a three-year community supervision order and ordered to sign on to the sex offenders register for five years.

Price, from Quinton, Birmingham, and Collum Keyes, 23, also from Birmingham, were among 12 people arrested when they surged through police lines during a protest in Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, in May 2010. When that case came to court in December, Price admitted using threatening behaviour. He was jailed for three months and given a ten-year Criminal Anti-Social Behaviour Order banning him from attending marches outside Birmingham. Keyes, who admitted disorderly conduct, was fined £150.

When Price was jailed, EDL members launched a campaign urging supporters to write to the Prime Minister and MPs to try to “win justice for Richard Price, EDL”.

The Aston Villa supporter, who has also been linked to football hooliganism, was even likened by his supporters to a modern-day John Bunyan, the Puritan Christian preacher and author of Pilgrim’s Progress who was jailed for continuing his sermons without the permission of the established Church in the 1600s.

But today’s revelation that one of the EDL’s leading members has been convicted of sex offences will come as a huge embarrassment to a group that has struggled to shrug off its reputation as a new version of the National Front.

In recent months, particularly following the political demise of the British National Party, the EDL has begun to attract more support. Its leader, who had previously used the alias Tommy Robinson, was traced by The Times and gave his first interview using his real name. Stephen Lennon has vehemently denied that the group he started in Luton, Bedfordshire, is racist, saying that it has even set up a gay and lesbian division and given a prominent role to a Sikh supporter opposed to Islamic extremists.

Supporters of the EDL had claimed that Price became a political prisoner after he, along with Keyes, was banned from organising, controlling or travelling to any open-air protest outside Birmingham for ten years. It was the first time a Criminal Anti-Social Behaviour Order, sought by Thames Valley Police in conjunction with the National Domestic Extremism Unit, had been issued to a demonstrator connected to the EDL.

Last month, a database of EDL supporters was published on the internet. Hackers had attacked the group’s database of those who had made donations to the EDL and people who had bought clothing from its merchandise wing.

The Times

(Quoted the article from The Times as I can't post a link thanks to Murdoch's pay-wall)

[url width=440 height=661]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3NG3Usg6jCM/TXUlCoIKQ7I/AAAAAAAAFUg/4H7cnug6AHQ/s1600/aovakbviavb.bmp[/url]
Hooligan, drug dealer and nonce - just the kind of person you'd follow to the barricades, eh Crispy? He's not some isolated knuckle dragger, he's one of your movement's heros and key organisers.

To be fair, they're only following a well-trodden path of far-right paedos, like this recently convicted BNP nonce http://www.blackburncitizen.co.uk/news/8771457.Accrington_neighbour_from_hell_jailed_for_child_porn/

P-P-Paedo-L!

[Crispy]

http://www.muslimsagainstcrusades.com/breaking-the-silence-part2.html

Turn your sound up.

[pauld]

Which proves that there are some Muslamic RayGun Extremists. Fine, we all know that. They're a small minority of nut-jobs. And no more representative of Muslims at large than your bunch of racist, drug-dealing, kiddie-fiddling, fraudster low-rent Nazi street gang are of most English people, thank God.

Are you going to answer Ben's rather splendid detailed dismantling of your idiotic claims that "Islamic extremists are NOT a minority" by the way? Thought not.

[flammableBen]

http://www.muslimsagainstcrusades.com/breaking-the-silence-part2.html

Turn your sound up.

So what? A few Muslims attack all British soldiers because of what they see as unjust war against their own kind. You attack all Muslims because of a few Muslims attack what you see as important about being British. Can you not see the similarities? What makes you better than they are?

[pauld]

What makes you better than they are?

He's "English", innit?

[flammableBen]

He's "English", innit?

The white sort.

I'm normally against religious prejudice, but I think it's pretty funny that Mr. Mohhamed Abdul Mohammed could be prime-minister but Crispy couldn't. If I'm remembering our antiquated laws right anyway.

[pauld]

The white sort.

I'm normally against religious prejudice, but I think it's pretty funny that Mr. Mohhamed Abdul Mohammed could be prime-minister but Crispy couldn't. If I'm remembering our antiquated laws right anyway.

I think he can be PM, he just can't be Queen. Unless Richard Price asks him nicely.

[flammableBen]

I think he can be PM, he just can't be Queen. Unless Richard Price asks him nicely.

I thought we still weren't allowed a Catholic PM, not that it would ever stand up. I'm sure it was bought up in the news when Tony Blair converted soon after leaving office. I might have imagined it though.

I'd like to thank Crispy too, because I've had the worst week (and it's only two days in), but questioning what is either racism or stupidity (possibly naive stupidity, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt) has taken my mind off it and cheered me up. I hope his lack of coming back is because he's writing replies to my questions at the top of the page, but I doubt it.

[pauld]

He's probably out gratifying some bus-stops (or Richard Price)

[flammableBen]

I read that as graffiti - ing, but gratifying some bus-stops? Do far right types get off on molesting public transport signs?

Maybe the next EDL documentary maker should go down the nearest bus station late at night, there'll be pools of man juice with so many bus stations.

[pauld]

I read that as graffiti - ing, but gratifying some bus-stops? Do far right types get off on molesting public transport signs?

Not just bus-stops, all manner of public buildings it would seem

The 'Rallys' are held for a number of reasons, varying from remembrance marches for EDL members who have passed away to opposing the building of new mosques and even the cleaning of Nelson's column after it was gratified during the student protests.

[flammableBen]

haha. I didn't see that. Genius.

[tans]

Islamic Extremists are NOT a minority.

Yeah your right. Every muslim i know is a terrorist.

Just the other day i picked up a takeaway and found a bomb in my sheek kebab.

You sir, have ill informed views.

[Batch]

Aren't sheek kebabs indian. Aren't most Indans Hindu?

Don't say Hinduist Laser Questers are at it as well as the Muslamic Ray Gun fundamentalists.

--------
Erm, not that your point doesn't stand Tans.