Wilson: Tactics vs. Personnel

[Samdy Gray]

I know it's been done to death in other threads lately, but I just need to rant to relieve some of my frustration over recent performances.

Some people have commented lately that they don't think we've got the right personnel, others believe Wilson gets the tactics wrong. Personally, I think we've got a good enough squad to at least be around the play-off places and I put our recent drop in form/lack of goals down to Wilson's tactics. Yes, I know he's the manager and he picks the team, but some of the decisions he's made recently are just baffling.

Lack of goals
I don't think our strikers are as bad as our lack of goals suggest, they're just not being played in the right order or the right formation/positions. Billy must've shagged Danny's mum for him not to be making the team. Being second choice to Lee Peacock must be great for Billy's confidence.

Is it that the strikers are shit? Or is it a lack of service from midfield? Probably a mixture of both, but with Paynter, Revell, Hutchinson and Tope they should at least be capable of getting a combined 30 goals. 7/8 goals a season for a striker isn't a huge ask.

I'm not convinced that Wilson knows how to improve the situation, given the different combinations we've seen up front so far. It was clear earlier in the summer that Cox was going to leave and a goalscorer was needed. I wasn't overly concerned that we went into the season without replacing him with a like-for-like player and thought we'd get someone in by the end of August. When we didn't I tried to give Wilson his respect to see what he could come up with to replace Cox's goals, but it just hasn't happened and I'm losing my patience.

Tope
Tope is a striker, he should be playing up front but instead he gets stuck out on the wing. What's the point? Bolton might insist he has to play as part of the loan deal, but surely they can't be too happy with him being played out of position every week? And when we're suffering from a lack of goals, it's a good idea to play your best strikers in the right position. He's a really frustrating player in that he's got bags of talent, but rarely an end product.

Maybe Wilson recognises the lack of service to the strikers and that's why he plays Tope on the wing, so that he can get the ball. I don't know, I'm just making wild assumptions because it really doesn't make sense why he's being played out of position when it clearly isn't working.

[Samdy Gray]

And I'd just like to add that there's far too much pressure resting on Austin. I just don't think he's going to have the ability to be the answer to our prayers.

[Bogus Dave]

Whats happened to easton?

I'm loathe to turn into one of those people who instantly assumes that anyone who didn't play last time is immediatley the answer to our problems (See: Paynter, Billy), but the fact he isn't even getting onto the bench is a bit puzzling. Especially when Timlin gets in ahead of him, and Timlin is shit.

[Spencer_White]

The squad is so unbalanced that this was always likely to happen. Hes tried to sign 35 different strikers in the summer, so I wouldnt criticise him there.

At the start of the season we were looking to pacy wingers to get us goals because we werent good enough up front. Then the wingers get injured, what do you do?

Douglas' supension is the last straw in terms of us being a play off standard team.

Wilson has been a bit unlucky?

[Iffy's Onion Bhaji]

Good post Sam. I think part of the problem is the way we try and play. It's good that we get the ball down a lot and pass it but it's no good when that passing is going nowhere. A lot of the time yesterday we played a lot of good short passes but when we needed to make that final ball there were no options and the ball ended up with Lucas and so the process began again etc. We need to get more crosses into the box. Must have had about 5 yesterday. 4 from Macca and 1 from Austin. I think our play has become fairly predictable and teams are starting to work out how to play us.

I do think some of it is down to the strikers. Sometimes they just don't make the right runs or get into decent positions but other times they are in good areas and never get the ball. Wilson's choice of personnel does baffle me. We should be playing Billy as he's our best striker in my opinion. Revell is a good player but hasn't really gelled with any of our other strikers yet. I don't understand why Tope is played on the wing either but i'd probably go as far as to say I don't understand why he is even played at all. We clearly miss Douglas. He's one of those players that you don't realise how key he is until he's gone and it's showing now. His passing is class and he breaks up play very well. I don't rate Timlin that much. He's been poor this season so why not give Easton a go?

The next month is going to be an intersting one. If we are still having the same problems and failing to win games then the pressure could start to build for DW.

[Arriba]

our lack of a natural goalscorer is the biggest problem,it was always going to be a problem and those brought in aint good enough.people seem to be pinning hopes on austin and i dont think he will be good enough either.(really hope to be wrong on this though)
add this to wilsons line ups and tactics and you have the reason we aint winning enough games.
i got a bit of flack after the millwall game as i slated wilsons tactics,but the last 2 weeks have only made me think i had it right as he's still making errors imo.
paynter doesn't deserve to be dropped and easton doesn't get a chance even though we are badly lacking in centre mid.
there are positives like the 2 centre backs and the keeper,but we are still leaking goals.
i've said all along that we  either need to invest more money on players or have a boss who can get the best out of what we have.

[Dr Pierre Chang]

Personally, I think we've got a good enough squad to at least be around the play-off places and I put our recent drop in form/lack of goals down to Wilson's tactics.

With a decent striker brought in I agree, with the current bunch up front, not a chance.

Arriba, spot on.

[Batch]

Personally I see this as a year of consolidation, and yes we should have got to that quicker as a club.

If we can build something solid(ish) we can then go forward and add more attacking options. We need to get the spine right first. And we haven't quite done that yet, our Achilles heel of not being able to see games out is still exposed.

I don't think the early good form has flattered us either, we should have 6 or more extra points right now. That has to be a worry as we aren't a good enough team to not have a bad spell. We needed to make hay while the sun shone!

But the lack of goals was bound to hurt us sooner or later. There are no goalscorers in the team, be it strikers or midfielders. Whilst I was happily swept along while we were in the playoff places mid table (current position) seems about right.

As long as we don't slip too far and keep the playoffs in site until after Christmas I'll be happy.
---------------------------------------------------
That said I don't know what Paynter (or Easton) has done to deserve being treated like they are. There may be something(not necessarily sinister) more to it but it is a bit baffling why we are bending over backwards to accommodate ineffective loan signings and taking Revell on loan. Nothing against the latter but he's just like Paynter!

Not sure why Wilson does what he does re:selection/subs. But based on what has happened thus far I think he has improved the squad and so at least we are going forwards.

[DiV]

Just a thought on Tope but maybe he's actually a winger?

Before he signed for us, none of us knew anything about him. We were all told he was a striker? The likes of Wikipedia and Soccerbase have him down as a striker but they arent always accurate?

I think the problem with the tactics if we've seen so many different ones so far this season. We started with a clear 4-5-1 then it went to a bit more of a 4-3-3 and we've played 4-4-2 once or twice and I'm still convinced we played 4-2-4 against Hartlepool!

I think its fair to say the strikers dont get a great deal of service but on the flip side Simon Cox was playing with the same midfielders behind him.

If you want to do 4-5-1 well you need good wingers. We've had O'Brien and Macklin injured and McGovern playing in the middle that leaves McNamee as our only winger as such and we all know he drifts in and out of games and his end product can range from poor to good to non-existent to decent. Infact in recent weeks I'd go as far as to say he's been better on the right. He just turns out onto his right foot and crosses it in. No delays, no step overs.

If we move JPM out wide I think it will leave a gap in the middle but then I also think JPM isnt the type to do well in a middle two if that makes sense. Think he'll do his best work as part of a 3.

Our strikers for the most part are decent but they arent goal scorers. Paynter and Revell are good second strikers for this level even Peacock is at a push. Out of those I think Paynter is more likely to score goals. He was our second best player last season.

I dont want to flog a dead horse or talk bullshit but maybe there is more to the Amankwaah/Harris thing that meets the eye. It was rumoured our players were going to grass him up if he didnt apologise. Since that match Kev hasnt looked as good (against Hartlepool I didnt go to Norwich) and as a team we havent looked the same. Where as Millwall have won twice and Harris has scored 4 times....

If I were the gaffer I'd be looking at going back to a 4-4-2. The back 5 picks itself. Lucas, Amankwaah, Greer, Cuthbert, LJF. Midfield would probably be Easton, JPM, Douglas, McNamee. Keep JPM in the middle because he's been on good form and stick Easton out on the right, he's played there before and got some goals. If it doesnt work just swap him and JPM. Maybe harsh on Ferry  but im not as keen on him as others. Paynter upfront and one of Tope or Austin off of him.

meh, just thinking out loud. Its gone very flat very quickly and that isnt just down to Douglas being suspended either.

[JB_Swindon]

We should have signed Cherno Samba in the summer he would have bagged a few by now..  i would start paynter a up top on his own next week like we were at the start of the season we seemed to be able to grind out results like that ! plus JP was top class in attacking midfield

[Talk Talk]

And I'd just like to add that there's far too much pressure resting on Austin. I just don't think he's going to have the ability to be the answer to our prayers.

He looked fucking keen and hungry when he came on yesterday. Him and the Leapy Cock made a hell of a change to the whole feel of the game 

Fingers, toes and bollocks crossed, I think we may be pleasantly surprised.

[Talk Talk]

Oh and he is the spitting image of DV when he had his beard.

[Crozzer]

Wish I had realised this thread had been going.

This is how I see it (on another thread).  The 4:5:1/4:3:3 formation is necessary because 4:4:2 won't work with Macca, our most creative player (remember Malapas and Byrne with three in midfield and Macca with a free role).  If we want to play 4:4:2, we should have sold Macca to Norwich.  The three in central midfield Douglas, Ferry and JPM look very strong, confident and capable.  The weakness at the back is pace for the central defenders and at left back.  This is dealt with by the chosen formation and with Greer playing a little deeper and not being caught square.

Rapid Vienna make the formation work by good penetration on the flanks and a dominant center forward.  Without Douglas we are not firing on all cylinders in central midfield, it is harder to get the ball forward.  Tope is not getting any crosses in from the left, where Macca should be playing.  Macca is getting crosses in from the right.  The central striker isn't getting enough service and isn't using the service he is getting.  Peacock is in the mix because he is good in the air.  Revell has plenty of huff and puff.  Paynter is personna non grata.  Hutchinson can't be arsed and it's too early to tell for Austin.  There are three problems for this team, besides the F.A. being dickheads and suspending Douglas, left back, left wide midfield and central striker.  

So why invest all this effort in Tope if he is going to fuck off back to Bolton while not playing Macca on the left, fuck knows.  Why prefer Revell over Paynter, fuck knows.  What's going to happen in January, fuck knows.  Seems like they are forcing a system to work, fuck knows why so few goals is a reason for not trying something else.

What should we do,..... play 4:4:2:

Lucas
Kevin
Greer
Cuthbert
New Left Back (strong enough to play behind Macca)
JPM (Right Mid)
Douglas
Ferry (if we can sign him)
Macca
Paynter
Austin

Subs:
Smith
O'Brien
Kennedy
Morrison
Revell (If we sign him)
Easton/Timlin
Peacock

[chalkies_shorts]

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That said I don't know what Paynter (or Easton) has done to deserve being treated like they are..

In Easton's case it could well be because he was absolute dogshit last season. Unfortunately for Easton and Timlin they are shit central midfielders. They are fucking useless at owning the centre. Ditto JPM without Douglas.  Douglas in his short time here has shown us how to do it. He is very sorely missed.

[blah blah]

I think we can safely say that playing 4-5-1/4-3-3 was not Wilsons plan at the start of the season. He wanted a goal-scorer to replace Cox, but just couldn't get him. Playing 4-5-1 in those first few games was a no-brainer as he only had 1 fit striker. However in those first few games, he stumbled on a formation in midfield that brought the best out of JPM who in those early games was by far our most industrious, creative player. Previous posters are right in that he can't play centrally in a 4-4-2, and he is not as effective wide. Reminds me of Martin Ling, in the Hoddle years he played just behind the front 2 having originally being brought in as a winger, but this is where he found his best position.

I don't know what the terms of the loan agreements are, but I agree with most others that Tope & certainly Hutchison are just not good enough and need to be dropped. O'Brien getting injured was a blow, as with him & Macca supporting Revell or Paynter we would be a threat going forward. We dont necessarily need a 30 goal a season striker, but the likes of JPM, Ferry etc need to contribute more goals.

When we went 4-4-2 against Hartlepool, they stoppped us playing by not allowing Greer & Cuthbert to play the easy balls into midfield where previously Douglas & Ferry have been to start every attack. Up until then, the long ball from defence was the last option, in that game, it was the only option and just didn't work against the big strong Hartlepool defence.

I like the idea of a 4-5-1/4-3-3, but whether we've got the personnel to play it effectively is the question.