Finally...a man who stands up and says what a lot of people really think

[Talk Talk]

Good shout. You've proven yourself to be a fucking nutter who is better of being confined to a small room with an even smaller window made of sherbert which you can lick at until your hearts content.

Only joking... you make some fair points about the situation that we face, I just dont't agree with the the majority of solutions that you present as alterntatives. ( I err more towards the Devil's point of view on that sort of thing)

No, that's fine. What I am advocating is the next society after minarchism (which is what DK is campaigning for). Quite a few LPUK members feel the same, they are closet Murray Rothbard readers and see it as a stepping stone.

[jayohaitchenn]

Sorry Alan, who or what is DK?

[Colin Todd]

Donkey Kong

[Talk Talk]

Sorry Alan, who or what is DK?

Devil's Kitchen, aka Chris Mounsey (http://lpuk.org/pages/libertarian-party/leadership.php) - a very sweary blogger who is on the National Co-ordinating Committee of LPUK.

Blog at http://devilskitchen.me.uk/.

[pauld]

Quite a few LPUK members feel the same, they are closet Murray Rothbard readers and see it as a stepping stone.

Isn't "quite a few" of "not very many" = "even less". So that's four of them, then?

[sheepshagger]

Sorry TT - your theories are all very well but it is still bollocks !

Yes, I stick my hand in my pocket for various charities - but ONLY because I can afford to.  I have the abaility to give something to people a lot worse off than me - but as someone else pointed out I am fucked if I would give everything up just to help a bunch of lazy bastards out who refuse to get off their own arses and do something !

And thats the nub of the problem with your suggestion.

By my own nature I am ambitious - never really satisfied with what I have (work and financial I mean by that).  So I strive to do better and earn more, to have a more comfortable lifestyle and ultimately to be able to retire early and do fuck all.

Others are VERY happy with what they currently have, and are prepared to do bugger all apart from the bare minimum.  I personally do not have a problem with that, and I personally am not greedy enough to try and take advantage of that situation.

However there are hundreds if not thousands of people that would be willing to do just that - and that is where your theories all break down....

[Talk Talk]

Isn't "quite a few" of "not very many" = "even less". So that's four of them, then?

No, it's only two in reality.

[Talk Talk]

Yes, I stick my hand in my pocket for various charities - but ONLY because I can afford to.  I have the abaility to give something to people a lot worse off than me - but as someone else pointed out I am fucked if I would give everything up just to help a bunch of lazy bastards out who refuse to get off their own arses and do something !

Two points here:

1) That's fine, then only help people who are truly destitute and unable to look after themselves and don't contribute to any organisation that supports 'lazy bastards'. You have a choice in that.
2) In our current society, if you feel so strongly about not supporting the idle wasters (presumably you mean the ones on benefits) then I suggest that you stop paying tax and national insurance. Oh - you can't can you? Because the state demands it from you under threat of violence and has control of who gets your money. That's a bitch isn't it? And you're 'giving nearly everything up' for them.

(Well actually there is a lawful way to not pay tax and NI but I won't go into that here).

[sheepshagger]

Two points here:

1) That's fine, then only help people who are truly destitute and unable to look after themselves and don't contribute to any organisation that supports 'lazy bastards'. You have a choice in that.
2) In our current society, if you feel so strongly about not supporting the idle wasters (presumably you mean the ones on benefits) then I suggest that you stop paying tax and national insurance. Oh - you can't can you? Because the state demands it from you under threat of violence and has control of who gets your money. That's a bitch isn't it? And you're 'giving nearly everything up' for them.

(Well actually there is a lawful way to not pay tax and NI but I won't go into that here).

The point is TT I don't mean people on benefits as a whole.

There are VERY good reasons to tax and NI - I have a police service that stop me and everyone else (on the whole) from being attacked and stop my home from being invaded etc...

I have access to a health service that will "mend" me if I am broken

The state does NOT demand it off me under threat of violence at all ! How ridiculous!! Without taxes I would not have access to these things as they would not exist - what else am I going to do ?  Barter a couple of cows for some quack doctor in the village and hope for the best ?

I agree that money could and should be spent better - but to leave it all to the individuals would simply not be an option that would or could ever work.....

[Talk Talk]

The point is TT I don't mean people on benefits as a whole.

No and that is the problem with blanket taxes. You have no choice on how the money is spent. If you had all of your income in your pay packet you could decide which health service to use, which police forces to engage to protect you and you could decide if you want to give money to 'lazy bastards' or not. You have no options at all under the current system.

There are VERY good reasons to tax and NI - I have a police service that stop me and everyone else (on the whole) from being attacked and stop my home from being invaded etc...

I have access to a health service that will "mend" me if I am broken

See above.

The state does NOT demand it off me under threat of violence at all ! How ridiculous!!

Well try that one out then. See what happens if you don't pay your taxes. You will get summonsed. If you don't attend (because you don't want to pay), you will find some bailiffs turning up on your doorstep. If you ignore them, eventually the police will come and arrest you and take you off for trial. If you still don't pay, they will put you in prison. Or try the same thing with your council tax. That is VIOLENCE. It is using force against you to coerce money out of you.

Without taxes I would not have access to these things as they would not exist - what else am I going to do ?  Barter a couple of cows for some quack doctor in the village and hope for the best ?

With a full pay packet you would be free to buy those services on the open market. Why do you insist that the state is the only method of providing any services? They aren't. And they do it all very badly. Schools, healthcare, education. You name it. Everything they touch turns to crap.

I agree that money could and should be spent better - but to leave it all to the individuals would simply not be an option that would or could ever work.....

You can't say it isn't an option without factual proof.

[Talk Talk]

Hannan is awesome in this.

It just shows Cameron up as the wet ineffective troughing "opposition leader" prick he really is.

This has now gone completely viral.

1,200,266 views

I guess that it hasn't struck a chord then eh, Lumpy and PD?

[flammableBen]

(as you've gone full circle talktalk, I think I will too)

You cannot this... We can't do this... This is nonsense...

He's not a man to offer any alternatives with his criticism is he? You're right with your criticism of Cameron, but he's in the situation that he has to come up with something that his party will do differently, something he's struggled with throughout the recession.

From an individuals point of view, when you can't rely on investments and might lose your job, it makes sense to bury your money somewhere that it's definitely safe. Like under your mattress. But if everybody does that, then there's no money moving about the economy, and we're all fucked.

As my worked out in my head understanding goes (correction needed if necessary), money sat doing nothing is useless to the economy. With the banks not willing to do much at the moment, money sat in a current account probably falls into this category. Money invested in businesses and stuff has seen a bit of a hit, so people aren't willing to invest much more at the moment, so that's off the cards.

That leaves two things: Our day to day essential spending (which is down) and the government 'initiatives'.

Let's leave the argument on whether the government is neccesary for this, it's here at the moment and it's not going to vanish, plus I enjoyed my education and health care.

The only role the government can play is to encourage spending. The movement of money is the important thing. £10 living under my mattress does nothing, £10 spent in a shop helps pay the wages of staff, any tax helps pay for public services, there's some reinvestment in stock which helps do the same again, and there's a slight drain where the owner stores some under his mattress because times are hard.

So encourage spending they must do. The top, complicated, slightly illusionary, scary, messed up end of the economy is the big city stagnant part. But that would change if you build from the bottom up.

Don't moan about jobless scroungers having life too easy, give those cunts who spend all their money without thinking even more money to spend! It's doing more good than the middle classes who want to wall themselves in from darkies and gypsies, hiding their money behind a chest of drawers.

[pauld]

This has now gone completely viral.

I guess that it hasn't struck a chord then eh, Lumpy and PD?

Birdy Song. Agadoo. Doesn't make them any less of a waste of space either.

[DMR]

I'm going to start voting for Ironside's mob if it shuts you cunts up, fuck me you're all worse than he is. Bloody lefties! And I err left of centre ffs!

[jonny72]

Well try that one out then. See what happens if you don't pay your taxes. You will get summonsed. If you don't attend (because you don't want to pay), you will find some bailiffs turning up on your doorstep. If you ignore them, eventually the police will come and arrest you and take you off for trial. If you still don't pay, they will put you in prison. Or try the same thing with your council tax. That is VIOLENCE. It is using force against you to coerce money out of you.

That is complete and utter total bollocks, and I can talk from experience.

Spouting so much crap really doesn't do your argument any good, in fact it totally negates it.