Chinese Takeaway

[pauld]

I'm a lefty but rather than just dismiss the BNP as loons and thugs I'd rather engage in debate with them than just ridicule all of them because you don't agree. Unfortunately there are some very educated members of the BNP and they come from all walks of life - to dismiss them as simply as you do is as simplistic as you accuse them of. The problem for the UK is that you work next to BNP sympathisers, they care for you in hospitals, they save you from burglars, they protect the country, they give you your money at the bank etc etc. They're not all rabid shaven headed nutcases like not every one in the communist party is a folk signing bearded bore with leather patches on thier jackets.  

You're wrong about CP members - they ARE all bearded folk-singing bores, often with skin complaints of various forms. And as for engaging in rational debate with Ironside, well, look back. You'll see both me and Lumps have attempted to do so - but as I've said repeatedly throughout this thread once it starts to get a bit near the knuckle re the BNP's inherently Nazi constitution, leadership, history, ideology and membership, he ducks (or usually ignores) the question. Repeatedly.

As you say, the Nazis these days wear suits and have normal hair, they're not the bovver boots and shave heads of the past (well, not the ones they trot out in public anyway - the C18 crew haven't gone away, they just keep them better hidden).  But it doesn't make them any less Nazis. What it does make them is more insiduous, more initially reasonable sounding and hence more able to gain a credulous audience. Ironside would love to be able to dribble in a little bit of hate here, the odd twisted "fact" (which turns out to be the usual Daily Mail made up bullshit, but hey no-one's checking right?) there. No full on Nazi rants, just little bits of poison, drip, drip, drip. And for those reading it, well it's not too different to what they hear in the pub, read in the paper etc is it? Except it is of course, because the "logical" conclusion of those arguments will always be, like any cult, "Come join our perfect solution to all your ills under our wise and inspired leader". I see no wrong in pointing out where the Nazis are actually coming from and confronting them in their attempt to dress up all normal.

Plus, he does bite ever so reliably. It's like Pavlov's dog

[LucienSanchez]

Just in case the original toipic was still important, the chippy next to the Shield and Dagger is my chinky of choice... Followed by Noodle King on commercial road

[Lumps]

I'm a lefty but rather than just dismiss the BNP as loons and thugs I'd rather engage in debate with them than just ridicule all of them because you don't agree. Unfortunately there are some very educated members of the BNP and they come from all walks of life - to dismiss them as simply as you do is as simplistic as you accuse them of. The problem for the UK is that you work next to BNP sympathisers, they care for you in hospitals, they save you from burglars, they protect the country, they give you your money at the bank etc etc. They're not all rabid shaven headed nutcases like not every one in the communist party is a folk signing bearded bore with leather patches on thier jackets.  

I think you have to distinguish between people that are misinformed enough to have voted for the bastards, and the bastards themselves.

The "sympathisers" as you put it aren't fascists, some of them might be a bit racist, but you do need to engage with those people and attempt to point out the logical inconsistencies in the BNP's position. Those people have at least realised there's something fundamentally wrong with the way the world works at the moment and that the middle ground consesus of Labour/Tories/Liberals is in the process of giving a lot of ordinary working class people a good fucking over.

The party members on the whole, even now with the parties new shiny image, are by and large the same bunch of bone heads that have hung around like a bad smell on the far right for the last 40 years. The current "leadership" all joined the party under the leadership of the blackshirt and jackboot wearing Tyndall, (Griffin himself has a long history in neo-nazi organisations from the NF, the "political soldier" split from the NF, International Third position etc. etc.), so them attempting to portray themselves as non-racist, non-fascist nationalists, just like the SNP or PC is a complete snow job.

Clearly in the last few years there have been a few people that have joined the party having bought into that new image but they have sat a bit uncomfortably with the majority of the active members, and there has been a catalogue of splits and walkouts as a result including some of the new councillors they got elected.

Where Ironside sits in that lot I don't know. He talks about being "a nationalist" but that's the party line and they all spout it publicly, even the ones that have pictures of Hitler on the wall at home. He clearly isn't a complete knuckle-dragger, and he's too well informed about his party to be one of the naive newbies, so he knows the real nature of the people running the BNP and yet still professes to support it and regularly trots out it's arguments.

Now either he's a complete fantasist and a wind up merchant, an armchair stormtrooper, or he's a neo-nazi. Either way he's not going to be persuaded of the error of his ways through a debate on an internet forum. As I said before I wouldn't bother answering his posts if it was just him and me that could read them.

Oh and I think you over estimate the number of people that sympathise with them. Most people still think they're a bunch of cunts.

[Ironside]

See?
I recommend a good chinky for good feed at a reasonable price and certain sections of the forum pile in with the same old bollocks. Samdy and Chalkie are right. You're guilty of EXACTLY the same things you seem to accuse me of being guilty of.

I didn't answer your "questions" previously oh righteous one  due to a lack of time, nothing more. Why don'yt you start your own special thread in my honour and ask me your questions. I'm not doing a lot this weekend, I'll deal with them there.

Lumpy, shut the fuck up, you making sweeping generalisations but not actually saying anything new. Everyone know's you think the same as the righteous one  so tut a fucking sock cock in it.

[pauld]

I didn't answer your "questions" previously oh righteous one  due to a lack of time, nothing more. Why don'yt you start your own special thread in my honour and ask me your questions. I'm not doing a lot this weekend, I'll deal with them there.

Good-oh, you'll have plenty of time to look back for where I originally posted them then. I AM doing a lot this weekend so I don't. Looking forward to reading how a party created by Nazis for Nazis, led by criminals, racists and terrorists and with explicitly racist policies and constitution is just the misunderstood by us nasty liberals. Like the WI with pillowcases with eye-holes.

[Ironside]

Why would I put the efoort in oh righteous one ?  YOU are the one with the problem. YOU are the one who feels the need to go on and on about the same old bollocks day in day out, not me. You want answer, I'll give them to you, not a problem. Start a fucking thread for it and stop ruining other peoples threads with repetetive idiotic sniping.

[flammableBen]

You've failed to give answers in loads of the old threads ironside. When a debate comes up you normally just copy and paste something off some retard racist blog, claim you've got too much work to do, completely ignore one of lumps' long posts (too many long words), claim you don't have to answer a question because "fuck off I wasn't arguing with you", claim you don't want to discuss it because you only come on here to insult people, then go away until the thread falls off the bottom of the general discussion list.

Baggy Trousers.

[Ironside]

Not true though fb, if you were around the old thisis days you would realise we've all been here before. I've stated I'm prepared to have the debate but no one is stepping up to mark.

[flammableBen]

What do you mean not true? That's exactly what happens in all the big long threads on here.

Who cares what you did in the thisis days. Hiding behind mythical posts which have long been ridden from the internet is a bit of a cop out isn't it?

You big coward.

[Arriba]

ironside has offered the challenge,i suggest it is taken up.paul d and lumps are complete opposites to ironside in political views,and i think you are too ben.i'm sure between you 3,you can take him on.

[flammableBen]

You only know we're complete opposites to ironside (well varying degrees of opposites) because we "debate" with him all the time already. He just ends up calling everybody a cunt and signing out for a few days.

[Arriba]

not only for that reason ben.also from posts you have all made over the years.ironside has thrwon the gauntlet down.so will only make himself look an idiot if he now dodges the debate that could be raised.

[flammableBen]

He's wandered off already I think.

What's this proposed debate about anyway? "Ironside: His life and Views"?

[Ironside]

Have you got a job yet fb?

[flammableBen]

Nope