Israel, getting away with it again...

[Don Rogers Shop]

Lebanon is a quality name

[Ironside]

Another question you can't answer Ironside? Our midfield ducks out of a challenge less often than you do

Just busy Paul. I will reply, don't worry princess, I'm not ignoring you! XxX

[Phil_S]

I tend to side with the Israelli's as historically they only took land when they were attcked from it by their neighbours. It's is a country that has from day 1 been under threat, & has / will only survive by being as tough as those who wish to obliterate them.
Irans president wants to wipe them off the face of the earth, & I suspect a lot off other arab countries have similar views. That's why Sadaam Hussien launched scuds at them, to try & get the Arabs on his side.
Hamas are a bunch of terrorists, who must know that they can't defeat Israel by launching some rockets at them, but persist in doing so. I conclude that the reason is that they want to get a response from Israel, get some civilians killed, gain sympathy & get other Arab states to join in with an all out war on Israel.
Israel of course HAS to respond. As a democracy, their Government would be kicked out pretty sharp if they did nothing. Unfortunately that makes civilian casualties almost inevitable. "Clean War" can only exist if you have two armies drawn up against each other in the desert.
Of course the other thing that should be bourne in mind is that they have Nuclear weapons. I believe that is why Iran (or any other Arab state) will not be openly involved. (Israel would use them as a last resort I am sure).
The problem with trying to find a solution is that a lot of the Arabs tend to believe the ONLY solution is the removal of the state of Israel in a similar vein to Hitler's Final Solution.

[janaage]

Interesting article here - http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/2009/2009/01/2009188361781632.html

[herthab]

Aljazeera?

You must be fucking joking Jan! They make the BBC look well balanced and impartial. I'm sure I could dig up a polar opposite of that article if I looked through the Israeli media.

[janaage]

Another interesting article here, from Haaretz.  Is it me though but this article is making a lot of assumptions, it's like an article from WWII (as sad as it sounds when I was younger I used to get the old WWII magazine collections which included replica war time newspapers) where it's safe to ASSUME things about the enemy rather than report facts, propaganda imo.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1053821.html

[Dazzza]

I love the Lebanese absolutely stonking set of people and have gone through all manner of hell and still come out of it smiling.  I spoke to a customer out there yesterday and he’s cracking jokes about it all!

I suspect Israel are about to open Pandora’s box, which will not be shut for a very, very long time.

[janaage]

Aljazeera?

You must be fucking joking Jan! They make the BBC look well balanced and impartial. I'm sure I could dig up a polar opposite of that article if I looked through the Israeli media.

Hertha are you fishin or what?  You need to spend sometime watching Al Jazeera, it's not the Islamic mouthpiece that some believe.  There's an interesting book out about the channel, who's motto goes something along the lines of "one view and then the other", explains why and who founded the channel (A Qatari I believe) and the trouble they faced in the Arab world in the early years for their impartiality.  I've watched a fair amount of AJ recently it's good.  This morning like yesterday they had a discussion on the troubles, the guests were Claire Short, some Arab journalist and an Israeli ex Major, all given time to explain there take on things.  Very good channel, watch without prejudice (as George Michael nearly sang once).

Al Jazeera is less biaised than Sky or the Beeb from what I have seen. 

[janaage]

Also Hertha did you read the article?  All it was talking about was that some Israeli's don't back the action.  So if you can find an Israeli article interviewing Palestinians who back the Israeli's actions then go ahead and post it, it would be an interesting read.

(that's wasn't intended as a pop in any way btw)

[BANGKOK RED]

Aljazeera are are a quite well respected Media source. They report alot on the political problems here and they are on of the most balanced sources out there.

[BANGKOK RED]

Another post from a Thai living in the area, from a local (Thai) forum:

since i can respond here, joy o joy...

while u all bat about with words, i know have two kids in the southern areas helping out (and my son was able to get help for the thais in the area, good for him, he was really pushing the organizations that are helping to pay attention to the silent foreign workers)

and then, b. , an arab guy whom i raised practically as my son came to work distraught: good horse back riding friend of his was the soldier that was killed last week... and one soldier killed was druze.

now how does all that fit in your all kettle of fish?

we watch the news every evening, and get first hand reports from our kids (we have five guys on the kibbutz in gaza that are in the regular army i.e. 18/19 yr olds) and older guys that are in miluim (reserve duty)...

it is not easy for an 19 yr old to sit in a broken up house with a child's carriage, mattresses and blankets strewn around, sleep there, and wait for orders to proceed... knowing that enemy fire can come out of any house behind any child's carriage (the tunnels are hidden under childrens beds, behind closets, tunnels are everywhere. and who dug the tunnels? palestinian kids desparate for money for their families, they are small and can dig and are less noticed than older guys and a lot of them were injured in the process when tunnels collpased)...
i have to tell u, we are all awfully awfully tired. we sympethize with the families in gaza w/o water, milk, heating (its cold and miserable the past few days)electricity, and the humanitarian help israel sent over was caught up in the black market to be resold at high prices instead of being handed out; only small amounts of food etc is actually being handed out for free. this we know from the guys that are there (the soldiers). we sympathize, but also, we are really sick of being kassemed and GRADDED (the missiles being shot over); and also, last nite the army dropped fliers down on the civiliians to get out of a certain area, but they (the civilians) had no where to go as egypt wont open its borders, and we certainly wouldnt, and hamas wouldnt let them out anyhow...
so how do u think my best friend's son as a commander feels when he knows that some palestinian child his sister's age is shot by him? our kids are told by us over and over again that these people are human. we dont want our kids to lose their humanity even in a war. what price do u think some of these kids pay to keep their humanity in a time of war?
everywhere we go now, u see an arab guy come towards u, u check for an alternative route... that is sick. it makes u not trust anyone.
combat in gaza is difficult as living areas are super crowded houses and narrow streets with plenty of places for trapping the soldiers in dead ends. because of the conditions, four israeli soldiers were killed by friendly fire. yesterday there was a cease fire until 1600. at 1600 precisely, the hamas started up again. like a group of small children in a kindergarten. u all are getting the reports from news reporters. we are getting the reports from our kids.

i asked my son (not in main army in pre army) where he was: answer: bombshelter 49 in netivot. he's been there for the past 12 days (we are counting every day, trust me) and will come home tomorrow to shit shower shave and sleep for the weekend.
the gazans are like cornered animals and will fight to the last woman and child for something they think they want; their backs are to the sea, and borders by people who dont want them. the arabs here in the villages dont want them, they consider them vermin (poor, uneducated primitive breeding like rabbits-- some of the ways the guys from the villages here describe the gazans)...

sometimes it is better to give a good hard hit and finish the whole thing all at once, then to have something drag out. non of us wanted this. now we just want it to finish. hopefully forever (yeah right). if the gazans would just go about their business and we could go about ours, then i and others certainly wouldnt be writing what i wrote. but for purposes of their own, with their own agendas, other poeople have made us (israelis and gazans) get sucked in to yet an other war.

forgot to add; lots of goat rustling now that every one is busy with gaza, the other areas, instead of rushing in and helping their brethren, are busy stealing our goats (from decent arab villages also, 150 head of expensive goats got stolen yesterday from friends in valley) and rushing off to the 'other' areas.

dont see them helping in any way shape or form. lots of arab protesting but no help from their either. just verbal diahreaa and some tire burning for their brothers.

well my rant for the weekend, i guess non of u can really understand what is going on here unless u live here (on either side, arab or israeli jew) but we are certainly just very very tired. in thai i guess its called : nui jai.

bina
israel

First off, if anybody thinks that bad grammar and spelling dismisses this post then think again because the person posting is not a native English speaker.

Also, some may pick out certain points and say "Oooh, that is biased", well fuck that. This is from somebody who is pretty much in the thick of it all and they are pretty much stating that both sides are pretty much sick of it.

This person had almost 3,000 posts and has been a member of this Thai forum for nearly 5 years, meaning that they are not a troll.

[Bennett]

Lebanon getting in on the act as well now then.

that'd be my uncle then!

[Lumps]

I tend to side with the Israelli's as historically they only took land when they were attcked from it by their neighbours. It's is a country that has from day 1 been under threat, & has / will only survive by being as tough as those who wish to obliterate them.
Irans president wants to wipe them off the face of the earth, & I suspect a lot off other arab countries have similar views. That's why Sadaam Hussien launched scuds at them, to try & get the Arabs on his side.
Hamas are a bunch of terrorists, who must know that they can't defeat Israel by launching some rockets at them, but persist in doing so. I conclude that the reason is that they want to get a response from Israel, get some civilians killed, gain sympathy & get other Arab states to join in with an all out war on Israel.
Israel of course HAS to respond. As a democracy, their Government would be kicked out pretty sharp if they did nothing. Unfortunately that makes civilian casualties almost inevitable. "Clean War" can only exist if you have two armies drawn up against each other in the desert.
Of course the other thing that should be bourne in mind is that they have Nuclear weapons. I believe that is why Iran (or any other Arab state) will not be openly involved. (Israel would use them as a last resort I am sure).
The problem with trying to find a solution is that a lot of the Arabs tend to believe the ONLY solution is the removal of the state of Israel in a similar vein to Hitler's Final Solution.

Whilst there's a kernal of historical truth in your first point about the areas that Israel has seized by military means, it does kind of skip over the several decades of creeping incursion carried out by Israeli "settlers" that have gradually pushed borders back throughout the region.

Your second point about the uselessness of the rocket attacks isn't really adding anything to the debate. 3000 rockets in the last year and Israeli deaths just about into double figures doesn't make it sound like a hugely successful military tactic, I think we all agree. But I refer you back to my several posts about the blockade; the situation in Gaza is getting desperate and they've really got no other fucking way to fight.

Your final point is pretty questionable. Even the majority of the population of Gaza, including a sizable chunk that voted for Hamas don't agree with their stated position tha Israel should be swept from the map. Most of the Arab and other muslim governments don't either. That's why there's always a huge fucking fuss whenever some politico in the region ever makes a remark along these lines. Iran I think is pretty much the only nation who's regime publically supports that position, and I've seen plenty of vox -pop interview on the "oh so biased" BBC to suggest that even there it's not anything like a universal opinion.

Most of the Arab peoples and states see the ideal as a two state solution. Unfortunately, they are entirely wedded to the restoration of the original borders at the time of partition, although a load of them go a bit quiet when anyone mentions the territories some of the Arab states grabbed from the Palestinian lands during the Arab Israeli war, and Israel aren't prepared to give up anything more than those lands currently behind the existing Armistice Lines.

[Samdy Gray]

Hehe, this made I larf...

[url width=476 height=491]http://content2.totallycrap.com/content2009/picturetopics/tc/muslim_juice.jpg[/url]

[dell boy]

Hehe, this made I larf...

[url width=476 height=491]http://content2.totallycrap.com/content2009/picturetopics/tc/muslim_juice.jpg[/url]

Bloody hell