McClaren Sacked

[Crozzer]

Previously stated on this forum that McClaren would be gone by Thursday.  After the miracle in Israel, he had to screw it up.  I don't expect he had even started to prepare, expecting it to be all over.
 
There is a series problem in English Football, I think it is related to Premier League greed and youth coaching that doesn't emphasize individual flair and skill.  The young players need to play all positions, and sacrilege..... don't have to be made to worry about winning at all costs.  You can coach any clown to boot it long out of defence, but it is the most effective way of winning games for kids.

[genf_stfc]

why the clamour for someone right now ?  thats what got us in this position in the first place, its not like we have much to play for in the next few months !

I think the first thing to do is to stop England players getting paid for representing their country - or if they had any honour at all they could donate their fees to charity.  They will do OK anyway just from their profile being raised.  If the prem players don't like that then fine, piss of you traitors, hand back your OBEs and give the job to someone else.  Even if we played with a bunch of try hards from the leagues that were commited to being a national team but still never qualified it would be better than this shower of shit (like Scotland have shown, for example !)

[Crozzer]

Absolutely no hurry, why would the playboys take any notice of the guy from Middlesboro who never won anything.  Time to choose an absolute barsteward who makes them do push-ups.

[Bogus Dave]

cappelo, mourinhio, o'niell would be my choices

[Iffy's Onion Bhaji]

I didn't actual realise Venables got the sack as well, thought they may keep him on.

There's no point. A new man will bring his own assistants in.

[Lumps]

why would the playboys take any notice of the guy from Middlesboro who never won anything.

Apart from that league cup

Other than that all he did was take Boro to their highest league finish ever, 7th in the prem, into Europe for the first time in their history,  in a run to the UEFA cup final, and a couple of FA cup semi-finals.

That's piss poor for a giant of the English game like Middlesborough isn't it?

The man isn't a shit coach for fuck sake. Sir Alex doesn't appoint shit coaches to his staff.

It's all very well you all slagging the guy off, just like Sven was castigated when he was sacked as well. It's fucking easy to just blame the manager.

It was Svens fault for playing a dull rigid 442 system that stifled the players flair a year or so ago. Now, all of a sudden it's Mac's fault for failing to play them in that 442 system.

When are you just going to accept that the players just aren't that good?

I'm afraid that disciplined but slightly tedious and uncreative 442 that Sven had them playing was probably all this lot can manage.  Sven played that system because he recognised their limitations.

It brought you guaranteed qualification and a few QF and SF finishes which was probably a fair reflection of your actual standing in international football.

You stalled at that point repeatedly not because the coaches weren't imaginative enough to take them any further, but because tha players weren't fucking good enough.

You lost to Brazil in that semi because Brazil were fucking better than you. Why is that so difficult for people to believe?

You lost to Croatia last night because

1.  without your first choice players in Ferdinand, Terry and Cole your defence was fucking woeful (the alledgedly second best English left back in the country reminded me of Jason Drysdale.)

2. your supposedly "world class" midfield was only able to create a single clear cut goal scoring chance.

3. up front, without owen and rooney, who both seem to spend more time injured than playing, you've got very few options.

So they were better than you!

Get over it.

[herthab]

As an Englishman it's hard to accept Lumps.

But I think you're spot-on.

[cib]

So they were better than you!

Get over it.

No-one has said that they weren't better than us, in fact i would expect everyone to say we deserved fuck all from the game because we were that poor last night.
All that about the players not being good enough - its true for not winning a major tournament, we aren't good enough - but for them not to even qualify for them?! I'd have to disagree.
The whole ''qualification'' stage was characterised by poor home performances to Macedonia and Croatia, combined with poor performances and luck (in one way or another - suspension, injury etc) in Russia and Croatia.

However the manager needs to be able to motivate his players and more importantly the players should be honoured to put the shirt on. The fact of the matter is neither were good enough over the 12 games,  you can't neccesarily change a pool of 26 players, whom should qualify. McClaren himself said to judge him now, once we've qualified. They all need a kick up the arse.

[Bogus Dave]

middelsbrough were 14th when he took over, 14th when he left. He had a good squad of players, but couldn't succeed with them. he won a league cup, which is all well and good, but their run to the uefa cup final owed more to flukey last minute goals from maccarone than any good managerial decisions. I won't have a go at him for starting 451, he didn't have any other choice with injurys. What i will have a go at him for are

-blooding an inexperienced goalkeeper in our most important game of the group
- not making any changes to the system till half time, despite us being 2-0 down at half time.
- being bertie big bollocks dropping beckham at the start. that backfired a little with hindsight.
- changing formation to one we've never played before in our toughest game of the campaign, away at croatia. And again, failing to make changes when they were needed.

The players need an awful lot of stick aswell. None of them look interested, which is a disgrace. Their was no passion last night, and i got the feeling most of the players, media and fans thought we were through after that last minute israel goal. Complacency has cost us, and we need to take this message on board in the build up to our next campaign.

Finally though i wont blame mclaren for the whole failure to qualify. Once offered the england job he was hardly going to turn it down was he? The FA is to blame for bottling out and choosing the easy, and from the outset the wrong option. Also arranging pointless friendlies (austria) and doing nothing to address the growing number of foreigners in the premiership. the fa need to get it right this time, or we really are in the shit.

[reeves4england]

why would the playboys take any notice of the guy from Middlesboro who never won anything.

Apart from that league cup

Other than that all he did was take Boro to their highest league finish ever, 7th in the prem, into Europe for the first time in their history,  in a run to the UEFA cup final, and a couple of FA cup semi-finals.

That's piss poor for a giant of the English game like Middlesborough isn't it?

The man isn't a shit coach for fuck sake. Sir Alex doesn't appoint shit coaches to his staff.

 :blahblahblah:

Some of your points are perfectly vaild, but...

I don't know any team who looks good at the back when their 3 besxt defenders are out

Nobody claimed a midfield with SWP and Gareth Barry is World Class

and nobody has said we deserved to beat Croatia - infact the whol epoint of this debate is how shite we were

[Ben Wah Balls]

When are you just going to accept that the players just aren't that good?

I'm sorry but if you look at the England squad there are a number of outstanding players in there, the players certainly play good enough for their clubs but no England manager has got them to play to their full potential recently. If our team was made up of league one and championship players rather than key players for the top clubs in one of the two strongest leagues in Europe then you might have a point.

[Lumps]

When are you just going to accept that the players just aren't that good?

I'm sorry but if you look at the England squad there are a number of outstanding players in there, the players certainly play good enough for their clubs but no England manager has got them to play to their full potential recently. If our team was made up of league one and championship players rather than key players for the top clubs in one of the two strongest leagues in Europe then you might have a point.

I'm not denying that england have some decent players available to them.

Ferdinand is probably one of the top 5 centre halves in the world
Cole maybe one of the best two or three left backs in the world
Gerrard is one of the best midfielders in the world.

But when your first eleven isn't available, the replacements just aren't very good. It isn't just me that thinks that Wayne Bridge is bloody awful is it?

More than that, what even the first choice team lacks is anyone, other that Rooney, who is capable of really unlocking a defence. All these other players like Lampard and Gerrard can look great for their club sides because they can buy in a flair player from overseas to provide that creative spark.

England aren't going to get anywhere unless they work out how it is that since Gasciogne retired you've only managed to produce one player that can both dribble well enough to beat a defender and hit an accurate pass/cross/shot, in anything like a consistent way.

The Italia 90 squad had Gazza, Beardsley, Waddle, and Barnes. This so called "golden generation" have got Rooney, Joe Cole and SWP. There's no fucking comparison is there?

And can I just agree with everything Chris Waddle has said on 5 live over the last couple of days. What kind of international class player is it that is completely at sea if the formation changes from 442, for fuck sake? Bear in mind that ALL of the five players that started in the attacking positions on Wednesday night came form Chelsea or Liverpool, both of which play that 451 come 433 formation on a regular basis.

[jayohaitchenn]

It isn't just me that thinks that Wayne Bridge is bloody awful is it?

No it isn't.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/6447317.stm

[Scot Munroe]

2.75 ouch.

[jayohaitchenn]

that's about 2.65 too much if you ask me. Fucking terrible player.