Thetownend.com

 what a cunt.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjuNuqIev8M&feature=player_embedded

Ha

That's embarrassing.

"People are angry but they don't know why"...Says it all.

That guy is hilarious. Damn that Iraqi muslamic law that they are enforcing on us.

He'd make Joe Cole look like an Oxbridge candidate.

He's entitled to his view I suppose - even if he doesn't know what it is and is completely unable to articulate it.  He is indeed a c*nt.

What a Helmit.

Muslamic? Take it he means Islamic.

Iraqie law? Take it he means Sharia Law.

Muslamic Infidel? Infidel means Kafir, against Islam and in the Qur'an it says all 'Kafir's' should be made to see the way of Islam or killed.. Would love to find a Muslamic Infidel myself!

Echo what mex said.

The incoherent cunt looks like he has aids

I like the bit where he says "Muslamic Rape Camps" and it sounds like "Muslamic ray guns"

:D

Haha.

Sexy picture of you on DRS facebook by the way

COCK

That was what I wore to work on Friday for comic relief.

Quality, how much did you raise

Um i took it last night?

On another note the yanks have crashed a plane in libya all ready :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

Good point, well made.

I was about to post that, fucking quality. Yet quite depressing as well.

Glad it wasnt just me, i swear he says muslamic ray guns

Same here

Oh my good sweet lord!!  ::)

Personally, £80 but our dept raised £415 in total.

I don't know about you but I'm shit scared about Muslamic Ray Guns.

Will they cause me to grow a beard?

Do a google search for "muslamic ray guns".

Everybody heard the same thing D)

Oh for fuck sake....

I suppose I shouldn't be suprised, having seen Newsnights interview with "the brains" behind the EDL I should have figured that the rank and file membership would, impossible though that seemed, have to be even more stupid.

What I'm still no clearer on, and what no-one connected with the EDL seems to be able to articulate, is what they're actually hoping to achieve.

i love this gun when getting it from the random box on cod zombies  :creep:

We're trying to achieve attention. We want the government to look at us, look at our daily growing number of members and the thousands who don't agree with what the EDL are against and do something about it. If you have anymore questions feel free to PM me on here or on facebook.

This threads going to end well

The EDL are just racist media whores.

I did say PM me to try and keep it off the main thread!

Don't hide behind pm's crispy. We haven't had a good political ding dong for while.

As long as it doesn't flood into other threads then it's easy enough for the people who don't want to read it not to click.

In which case, bring it on  :)

I wouldn't bother arguing with Lumps, Crispy. Lumps is always right and everyone else is always wrong. In fact the only person more right than Lumps is Lumps when he's pissed.

Not arguing with him, he asked a question and I answered it. If he doesn't agree with the answer that's his problem  :)

The government will never listen to the EDL, it's a pointless organisation with very little political impact.

And it's full of racist cunts too.

http://www.khilafah.com/index.php/news-watch/europe/11204-david-cameron-boards-the-edl-bandwagon

 
Coca, the EDL are against Militant Islam, last time I checked Islam wasn't a 'race' so how are we 'racist'? Sure, there ARE racist people who have attended EDL marches, I expect there are also people who attend Swindon matches with far-right views, does that mean all Swindon fans are "Racist cunts too"?

Let's not get into another argument. You have your views. I have mine.

Would you have supported a similar group, but campaigning against Catholicism, during the 70's and 80's when the IRA were actively trying to bomb English Cities?

The point is Cripsy most people who go to a Swindon match are doing to it watch Swindon play, the nut case is in the minority.

In the EDL's case, most people are knuckle dragging facist lunatics who wouldn't know a reasonable political discussion if it punched them in their racist scrotes

Wasn't alive at the time and honestly don't know enough about it to comment.

Have you ever been to a EDL demo and seen these "nuckle dragging facist lunatics"? I wouldn't say most of the people there are racist or go for a good old scrap, but without a doubt, a fair few do.

This hasn't stopped you before

[/endofobviouspost]

:no: :no:

Crispy, if the stated aim is just to campaign agains Miltant Islamic views, then you have no aim.  That's just a hobby.

What are they trying to do, what do they want to change?  Islamic Extremists are a minority in a simply massive religion, who are marganilised within that religion as having views not representing the faith.  I don't see what there is to campaign about, it's like holding rallies to say murder is bad.  Murder already being against the law, everyone bar murderers tends to already agree.

If they have some other aim, such as banning the practising of the Islamic faith in Britain then, although something that would receive very little support, I could kind of get why the EDL existed.  As it is, nothing has been said that suggests it's anything other than a reason for a few nut cases to look like skinheads and have a ding dong.

Nope. I'd never fit in with all you lot. Despite my often abusive nature on here I'm actually horrificly proper and middle class and would find hanging about with you blue collar fuckos incredibly annoying.

Presuming you really believe the majority of the EDL are only against militant Islam, and not just racist against muslims; Do you really thing campaigning against new mosques other islamic centres does more to encourage non-fundamentalist liberal (particularly young) muslims away from militancy or towards it?

Do you think increasing the perceived isolation of Muslim communities and as such raising their exposure to internal fundamentalist influences is worth it to complete the aim of raising the profile of the EDL in the media?

What's your perception of Muslim people living in Britain (both foreign and British)? What percentage do you think are militant?

What steps, either you personally or the EDL in general, do you think the government should take to combat militant Islam which they aren't already doing? If there aren't any, what are you campaigning for?

I see in the article Crispy linked to that they don't like Muslim bombers - again, that's a fucking given for anyone who doesn't support fundamentalist views, as well as already being catered for in British law by being......illegal, the bombing bit.

By definition, extremists would be a minority. Otherwise, it wouldn't be an extreme, would it, as the paradigm shifts.

Yes they are.

I'm sorry Crispy, did you just suggest Extermists are in the majority in a faith the size of Islam? or was that a quote of something you were suggesting was a poorly held view.  Fucking tell me it's the latter.

Deary me kid, I think we can close the book on this debate.

Exactly Ben. The EDL would do far better to achieve it's objective not by protesting against the build of religious centres, but by working in the communities alongside Muslims to flush out any extremism.

The angry young men Cameron referred to in the security conference may as well have been talking about the EDL. If a few of their members blew up a mosque they would be no different.

Personally I'm fucking scared that my next door neighbours go to church every Sunday. What the fuck are they plotting there?

Numbered your post to make it easier for me to answer.

1. I fully support a 'banning order'  if you like on new mosques and Islamic centres from being built, and I think that it needs to be introduced to prevent the 'Muslim Youth' from being dragged into the extreme element within the religion, the reason being that Mosques are a hotbed for extreme Islam. http://www.religionnewsblog.com/25715/undercover-film-shows-pupils-being-beaten-and-taught-hatred-in-britains-muslim-schools

2. The EDL was formed spontaneously when a homecoming March in Luton was met with Muslims screaming at the soldiers, its never fully been about the media coverage. I think Muslim community's isolate themselves and its not the way they are perceived, its the way they are.

3. I don't have a problem with Muslims in Britain, I have a problem with Muslims who practise Islam's extreme element... As i've said 100 times before on the TEF  :)

4. I personally think they should ban new mosques being constructed in England to prevent the hotbeds being created I mentioned in #1, I am compaining for this as I went to a protest in Luton not all that long ago (Not the main Luton one) to protest against a mosque/muslim prayer room being opened in the new Luton shopping centre.

Anyway, I'm gonna go and play FM2011, I'll be on tomorrow morning to get some more shit from you lot :)

Catholic churches are a hotbed for a bit of kiddie fiddling, shall we get them to pack it all in as well or is it all cushty cos they're white?

Post your squad on here, if there's so much as a Scotsman in there you've betrayed your beliefs badly!

Couldn't they just go elsewhere? I remember when they shut the pub round the corner, I just went to another one.

He sure as hell better not have Mido.

I'm the England manager in 2019 :)

Ha, ha, it was gratified? Superb.

Google Chrome spell check! Graffitied?

You didn't really answer the question, but I take it you believe that Islamic centres are such a danger that openly campaining against them outweighs the risks of further marginalising Muslims into fundamentalism?

If I could find a Catholic school where a kid had been abused by a priest, would that be enough for you to campaign against the closure of Catholic schools?

Do you think that all Islamic education centres are like that based on one film?

(My own view is that there shouldn't be any faith schools, be it CofE, catholic or Muslim, but I wouldn't pick out Muslim as particularly bad).


Not answered the question again.

Is that a "they started it argument"? If the Muslims who were screaming at soldiers had been beaten up by some ex-armed forces or something the day before, would that make it ok for you?

What makes you think the Muslim community isolates itself? They obviously express faith together, but that's by definitions, you're not a non-muslim if you're not going to muslim prayer. How much day to day interaction do you have with Muslims? Did you grow up with many at your Catholic school? Have you ever considered that it's you who are isolated?


Again you didn't answer the question, but you did just say that "Islamic Extremists are NOT a minority.".

Do you really think that the majority of British Muslims are extremist? If so do you think there's something special about Islam which makes you an extremist by definition? Even so, the huge majority of British Muslims aren't fundamentalist. I can pick as many fucking horrible things out the bible as you can out of the Qur'an. Actually they're pretty fucking similar.

If you're talking more from a world wide situation where there are still countries which practice some fairly harsh islamic law (mainly thanks to the west's interfering in countires for it's own means - but that's a different argument), wouldn't you be better off fighting that world wide by joining human rights groups and helping raise awareness to situations in Iran and Saudi Arabia?



You seem to really think that Islam is a threat, if that was really the case wouldn't it have been a problem when most of them first moved here? There's been a large Islamic community in Britain for decades.

Doesn't the fact that it's only a sudden "threat" now, indicate that it's a more complex political situation, and not to do with the religion itself? By continuously attacking the religion are you further politicising it and making it worse?

Linking into above when I asked if maybe it's you who's isolated, if you are wrong (and you are), and 99.9%+ of British Muslims aren't islamic extremists, then you might look back at your actions in a few years time with some big shame. You're basically attacking individuals' rights to practice their faith. Is that something you'd agree with doing?

How would you have felt if at 12 years old some skin heads had come along to campaign against you and your family because you went to a catholic school?

Have you heard the "When I was young, and had no sense...." song at Swindon games? The one which says "fuck the pope and the IRA"?

If that wasn't just a football song but being aimed at you personally, and with hatred because of your background (presuming you aren't an IRA member, but then the majority or Muslims aren't terrorists) how would you feel? Probably followed up with songs of fuck off back to Ireland, even if you aren't Irish.

The EDL don't have a particular problem with kiddie fiddlers, one of their founding leaders has a conviction for child porn, as this article from The Times in January shows:

(Quoted the article from The Times as I can't post a link thanks to Murdoch's pay-wall)

[url width=440 height=661]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3NG3Usg6jCM/TXUlCoIKQ7I/AAAAAAAAFUg/4H7cnug6AHQ/s1600/aovakbviavb.bmp[/url]
Hooligan, drug dealer and nonce - just the kind of person you'd follow to the barricades, eh Crispy? He's not some isolated knuckle dragger, he's one of your movement's heros and key organisers.

To be fair, they're only following a well-trodden path of far-right paedos, like this recently convicted BNP nonce http://www.blackburncitizen.co.uk/news/8771457.Accrington_neighbour_from_hell_jailed_for_child_porn/

P-P-Paedo-L!

http://www.muslimsagainstcrusades.com/breaking-the-silence-part2.html

Turn your sound up.

Which proves that there are some Muslamic RayGun Extremists. Fine, we all know that. They're a small minority of nut-jobs. And no more representative of Muslims at large than your bunch of racist, drug-dealing, kiddie-fiddling, fraudster low-rent Nazi street gang are of most English people, thank God.

Are you going to answer Ben's rather splendid detailed dismantling of your idiotic claims that "Islamic extremists are NOT a minority" by the way? Thought not.

So what? A few Muslims attack all British soldiers because of what they see as unjust war against their own kind. You attack all Muslims because of a few Muslims attack what you see as important about being British. Can you not see the similarities? What makes you better than they are?

He's "English", innit?

The white sort.

I'm normally against religious prejudice, but I think it's pretty funny that Mr. Mohhamed Abdul Mohammed could be prime-minister but Crispy couldn't. If I'm remembering our antiquated laws right anyway.

I think he can be PM, he just can't be Queen. Unless Richard Price asks him nicely.

I thought we still weren't allowed a Catholic PM, not that it would ever stand up. I'm sure it was bought up in the news when Tony Blair converted soon after leaving office. I might have imagined it though.

I'd like to thank Crispy too, because I've had the worst week (and it's only two days in), but questioning what is either racism or stupidity (possibly naive stupidity, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt) has taken my mind off it and cheered me up. I hope his lack of coming back is because he's writing replies to my questions at the top of the page, but I doubt it.

He's probably out gratifying some bus-stops (or Richard Price)

I read that as graffiti - ing, but gratifying some bus-stops? Do far right types get off on molesting public transport signs?

Maybe the next EDL documentary maker should go down the nearest bus station late at night, there'll be pools of man juice with so many bus stations.

Not just bus-stops, all manner of public buildings it would seem

haha. I didn't see that. Genius.

Yeah your right. Every muslim i know is a terrorist.

Just the other day i picked up a takeaway and found a bomb in my sheek kebab.

You sir, have ill informed views.

Aren't sheek kebabs indian. Aren't most Indans Hindu?

Don't say Hinduist Laser Questers are at it as well as the Muslamic Ray Gun fundamentalists.

--------
Erm, not that your point doesn't stand Tans.

All extremists are fucking nut jobs, whether they're Muslim, white racist pricks, or Lumps and his antiquated, outdated Marxist claptrap.

Just out of interest, how many Mosques are there in the UK and how many have been proven to be recruiting grounds for Islamic fundamentalism?

According to the edl, 1,000,000

dammit i was going to blame you for all this, but i agree with your post

End Of Days.

It's all very well taking the piss but......


THERE ARE MUSLAMIC RAY GUNS OUT THERE....RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!!!

I'd ban all fucking religions, I am far from keen on extremists like the EDL also.

Just get a big field, put them all together and let them get on with it....... job done.

Word.

Crispy, do you enjoy getting owned to fuck?

Has he been owned? Have you all managed to change his opinion.

Do you all enjoy trying to own a 17 year old? You ask him questions and he is trying to answer them ok in our opinion his views are totally wrong but by laughing at him mocking him and highlighting spelling mistakes i don't think you lot are going to achieve anything tbh.

To be fair to, I did say I'd rather answer these in PM. We've done this before.. None of you agree with me so it was fucking pointless anyway. Half the questions you've asked me can be found out just buy a quick Google search.

I understand that opinions are opinions but we've all already established you disagree with mine.. but if you want to try and "own" me, you carry on...

You still haven't answered Ben's questions which are about the basis of your opinions and how ill-founded they are.

Copy and paste them here then, can't be bothered to read through pages trying to pick them out.

They're on the previous page you lazy racist twat

They aren't going to get answered with an attitude like that are they! get copying!

Whooah fucking hell Paul

Quality

What? He comes on here spouting a load of half-arsed racist shite, then when he's challenged on it, fucks off and doesn't answer any of the more difficult questions about the lazy lies his knuckle-dragging hoolie mates peddle as fact. Then the likes of you come on and say "oooh, don't gang up on the poor little chap, he's only 17". Seem to remember when he first came in, he got all upset about people making reference to his age cos he was being "patronised". Can't have it both ways.

And FWIW, I don't actually give a flying fuck whether you want to answer Ben's questions Crispy - just highlighting you're incapable of actually defending the half-arsed lies that pass for your "beliefs"

As i said he has tried answering them unfortunatly he hasn't answered them in the way some of you want him to.

Fwiw i am not defending anyone just don't understand the obsession with everyone jumping down his throat.

I'm with Paul on this.

He didn't have to speak up, nobody made him do that. If he doesn't want to be challenged on what he says, he shouldn't fucking well say it in the first place.

"PM me" is a cop-out. You can't have your cake AND eat it. And if he's old enough to speak our in support of a bigoted organisation, then he's old enough to take the flack.

This is going to take fucking ages to answer so I'm gonna answer it as the 'racist lazy twat' I am...

You didn't really answer the question, but I take it you believe that Islamic centres are such a danger that openly campaining against them outweighs the risks of further marginalising Muslims into fundamentalism?

What you believe I believe, is what I believe.

If I could find a Catholic school where a kid had been abused by a priest, would that be enough for you to campaign against the closure of Catholic schools?

If it was on the scale of extriemests coming out of English mosques, yes.

Do you think that all Islamic education centres are like that based on one film?

No.

Is that a "they started it argument"? If the Muslims who were screaming at soldiers had been beaten up by some ex-armed forces or something the day before, would that make it ok for you?

Of course it is.. if there wasn't any resistance at the Luton homecoming march there would be no UPL/EDL. If the problem was never there, nor would we. If a few old boys giving them a slap the night before and meaning they didn't inter fear with the march there would be no UPL/EDL.

What makes you think the Muslim community isolates itself? They obviously express faith together, but that's by definitions, you're not a non-muslim if you're not going to muslim prayer. How much day to day interaction do you have with Muslims? Did you grow up with many at your Catholic school? Have you ever considered that it's you who are isolated?

I think the Muslim community isolates itself in a few ways, take Manchester road for example, on a short road you've got a mosque, about 2 Halal meat shops, and shops like "Bangladeshi Food Mart". I went into a corner shop the other week to get some cigarettes before the Dagenham game and they couldn't serve because they couldn't understand me.. I had to point out what I wanted. On BBC radio Wiltshire not too long ago, there was a piece about white English children getting turnt away from a nursery because it is a "Faith Nursery" <-- If that's not isolating your children from an early age I don't know what is. From going to about 3-4 football games a week in different towns/city's and working I get my fair share of Muslim interaction. There were 4 or 5 in my primary school and probably double that at my secondary school. No.

Do you really think that the majority of British Muslims are extremist? If so do you think there's something special about Islam which makes you an extremist by definition? Even so, the huge majority of British Muslims aren't fundamentalist. I can pick as many fucking horrible things out the bible as you can out of the Qur'an. Actually they're pretty fucking similar.

I do indeed, certainly a growing number. I don't think that just blowing yourself up makes you an extremist, look at the Charline Downs case. They actually are not pretty fucking similar.

If you're talking more from a world wide

If they want to carry on their barbaric Sharia Law in mainly Muslims countrys, I don't agree with it, but its not my place to stop it.

You seem to really think that Islam is a threat, if that was really the case wouldn't it have been a problem when most of them first moved here? There's been a large Islamic community in Britain for decades.

Islam is a threat, I really don't understand why your asking me that, but could understand asking an older EDL member, so i'll try my best to answer for you. I understand that there have been Muslims in England for a long time, but they haven't been going around blowing up the tube stations and burning poppys for decades, I know the IRA did in the past but thats nothing to do with the EDL.. I know they were extriemests..

Doesn't the fact that it's only a sudden "threat" now, indicate that it's a more complex political situation, and not to do with the religion itself? By continuously attacking the religion are you further politicising it and making it worse?

If you talk to a Muslim with extreme views, they will tell you that it is a plan for 'Islamifiying the west' it could well be making it worse, but the EDL have already stopped more mosques being built in certain parts of England and are reciving world wide support. If the EDL are stopping a number of mosques being built, surely that must reduce the risk of more extremests coming from the Mosques?

Linking into above when I asked if maybe it's you who's isolated, if you are wrong (and you are), and 99.9%+ of British Muslims aren't islamic extremists, then you might look back at your actions in a few years time with some big shame. You're basically attacking individuals' rights to practice their faith. Is that something you'd agree with doing?

Not really much point trying to defend myself on this one if you've already made up your mind that I'm wrong. I'm not attacking anybody's right to kneel on a prayer mat towards Mecca.

How would you have felt if at 12 years old some skin heads had come along to campaign against you and your family because you went to a catholic school?

I wouldn't be happy, but I don't really know enough about the whole IRA situation.

Have you heard the "When I was young, and had no sense...." song at Swindon games? The one which says "fuck the pope and the IRA"?

No, but i have heard other clubs singing it.

If that wasn't just a football song but being aimed at you personally, and with hatred because of your background (presuming you aren't an IRA member, but then the majority or Muslims aren't terrorists) how would you feel? Probably followed up with songs of fuck off back to Ireland, even if you aren't Irish.

I'm not an IRA member. I wouldn't like hearing that at all, or course I wouldn't. But we don't target moderate Muslims..

I'm not saying he isn't. I was more answering the You have been owned comment. Most of you are fully grown men arguing with a fucking 17 year old ffs

The age thing again DRS.

If my kid was a racist bigot at 17 (or any other age), I'd want as many adults as possible putting him in his place.

I just can't believe that a little prick(origanal post)can create such havoc.............and it's exactly that what groups like the EDL do.....provoke violence and anger.....and drag out the bad vibes in even good people.
Seems like the little prick has done his job in reality to a degree it is sad to say.

Here's a game to cheer everyone up.  Take a look at the original clip, and see if you can spot anyone who does not look as if they hit every branch on the way down while falling out of the ugly tree as a baby.

First person to do this wins a million pounds.

I noticed that too Ardiles

I wonder if the kid who was speaking was nominated, as the best speaker they had.

Crispy, do you have any actual numbers to back up your backwards views?

Didn't notice the massive and systemic child abuse scandals surrounding the Catholic Church in Ireland, the US and worldwide over the past 5-10 years then?

You've already stated one of your aims is to close down mosques, so yes you are
You wouldn't be happy? FFS
Just extremists like women and kids waiting for trains then:
http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk/news/Far-right-racist-gets-10-year-Crasbo/article-3318576-detail/article.html

Of course you do. By targetting mosques you target all Muslims, whether extremist or not, in the same way as you'd be targetting all Catholics if you went on anti-Catholic marches under the pretext of opposing the IRA/systemic child abuse in the Catholic Church

Pauld. Why do your post all seem to have a tone of I'm on the left therefore I must be right and all you right wingers are thick idotis? The left seem to always be on their high horse!

The EDL, BNP are no better in my view than the ANL, REDACTION etc. The fact is that both the far left and far right are never going to change anything or have any real power as most people sit somewhere in the middle. Hence why both sides are called far this or that. Give it up and come and join in the real debate, otherwise know as the shared middle.

Cos most of 'em are?

I'm not on the left, that's just your assumption, I'd place myself firmly in the "shared middle" or to put it another way, "liberal with a small l". And I totally agree the far left and far right are as bad as each other. As are the extremists of the EDL and MDL/MAC.

And to be fair, the evidence for the far right being thick is, I'd suggest, pretty strong within the context of this thread - starting with the video which kicked it all off.

Pauld you are always in the thick of debates about the edl, bnp etc and always shout very loud for the left. You are very much a left whinger sorry winger.

Religion is the problem be it muslim or anything else they are all bad. Yes they do good things but thing of all the problems caused by the church, by that I mean those that orgainse the religion. The world would be such a better place without any religion.

I've always thought the far right are to gullible to see through the bullshit of the daily mail/ nick griffin etc. Or just plain racist cunts.

The far left are too dim to see common sense and call a spade a spade. Or just jobsworthy cunts.

you can't say spade these days it's rascist you have to call it a digging implemant.

No, I don't. I always shout very loud against the Nazis. Being anti-fascist does NOT make you left-wing, in the same way as being anti-communist does not make you a fascist. I think you've confused being opposed to something necssarily meaning that you're therefore the most opposite extreme of it.

Ever been to a UAF march?

No

I don't understand the point of that question!

Unite against Fattys?

I have

I have.

99% were wannabe anarchists with no grasp on any concept of anything ever

Same as an EDL one then

Ever been to a EDL march?

I want this thread to stop.

Why would i want to do that?

Its full of racist cunts

Well, not anarchists in the true sense of the word, Errico Malatesta stylee...

Theres going to be civil war one day i think, and its most likely going to be about religion. I think there is a lot of hate towards muslims because of what is portrayed in the news and media, and what people see going on in the middle east etc, i would expect that very few people have met any extremist muslims, but it seems all muslims are tarnished with the same brush and that not everyone can see through the stereotype to the 'normal' muslims who practice their faith and go about their lives in the right way.

There is of course an extremist element that will grow, i think, and cause problems in the future. When there are more terrorist attacks in the UK, and more people killed, i think eventually the people in England will lash out, not only at the extremist muslims but at all those they perceive as being different. People get pissed off when they see foreigners coming over and milking the benefit system, living in 6 bedroom houses in london but not working for a single penny of it, whilst the average joe works his balls off to provide for himself and his family, only to be taxed half of what he earns. Or when foreign businessmen take over a company and make half of the workforce redundant; i think there is only so much people will take.

In terms of Crispy, i don't understand why just because his views don't fall into the mainstream, overly politically correct way of thinking that he has to be shot down and called a 'racist cunt', or that his opinion means nothing. A lot of you come across as considering yourself superior, taking the moral highground, but Crispy has explained why he has his views each time you've asked him but just because they don't comply with what you believe, he must immediately be wrong?
Maybe one day Crispy will change his views but it's not going to be helped by people jumping down his throat and shooting down all his views, he'll learn things himself without you lot telling him.

And finally, why is it, with the exception of Ben, none of you seem able to construct an argument without feeling the need to insult the person you're addressing? calling someone a racist cunt etc isn't exactly going to add credibility to your argument!

Objecting to racism is overly politically correct is it?

You keep bringing the racist card up..

Lets just say the EDL go around killing every muslim they see, burning all mosques etc.. 'Muslim' isn't a race? So even if we were that extreme, how would it be racist?

Don't think you get off on a technicality. I all amounts to EXACTLY the same thing.

So by the same token, the Nazis weren't racist? Come on, if "We may be a bunch of violent bigoted fascists but it's OK because we only pick on people because of their religion, not their ethnicity" is the best defence you've got, you're not doing well are you?

Where did I say that?

If you did it because of the colour of their skin it would be.

Perhaps BR should use religious Bigot instead of racist.

Right you are.

And so I will re-iterate my question to stfc_bath..... Do you really define objecting against bigotry as being "overly politically correct"?

Thats better!

Doing yourself a whole host of favours, child.

It's Islamophobia, if you want to get pedantic about it.

I didn't say that, what i mean is that we live in a world where everbody is too concerned with what they say in case it might offend someone, obviously the views of the EDL fall way out of this category and into the extreme, but people should be able to have their views and opinions without them being judged, i don't think any of us have the right to judge anybody else for what they believe, by doing that you're in effect persecuting them for what they believe, which is exactly what you're arguing with crispy about!

Am I? Everbody on here already knows my views, old man.

Well that's all very convenient isn't it?

A bigot can speak out all they want on their views because they have a right to their opinion, but when somebody speak out against them, they are wrong for doing so!

And can you see the irony on you coming on here objecting about people objecting about something?

I now object to your objection about everybody else's objection to bigotry.

We could be here all night

haha i do see the irony yes, i hope by the way you don't think i am a supporter of the EDL or anything like that, i was merely using it as an example to highlight people judging others on their beliefs etc.

 When i talk about people judging because of beliefs i mean it in both directions, i was talking as much about the EDL judging muslims etc on their beliefs as i was on people judging crispy and the EDL, it just gets into a spiral of everybody judging eachother and eventually ends up with somebody being called a racist cunt :)

I object to you lot making my fucking head spin !

I couldn't give a fuck if you are black, brown, ginger, pink, yellow or orange - or whether you follow Allah, God, Jesus or Uncle Tom Fucking Cobbly....

Just stop making my head spin - it hurts !!!!!

What percentage of the 1.5million (2001 census, probably more now) Muslims living in the UK are plotting against the safety of Britain? 

Out of the estimated 1,500 mosques, how many do you think are preaching militancy against the UK?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/03/16/catholic-school-rector-accused-of-sex-abuse-at-st-bede-s-manchester-115875-22992251/
http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/latest-news/seven_former_deaf_pupils_win_cash_1_2192105
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article6226891.ece
http://www.secularism.org.uk/catholic-church-loses-appeal-in.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10407559

Do you think that a majority of Catholic priests are paedophiles?

Why are you personally there? Why is anti-islam campaigning important to you? You say the EDL are only campaigning against militant islam, where does any of this come into that?


Do you think the majority of the Muslims living around Manchester road are militant extremists? How did you come to that conclusion from walking to football and buying cigarettes? How are the muslims isolated if you interact with them so much?

Do you have a link to the Faith Nursery story? Do you think the media representation of Muslims in this country is generaly fair, too soft, or too harsh?

How many people were in your schools? Were they practising Muslims? Were you friends with any of them? Do you think they're militant extremists?


I don't know a lot about Charline Downs case, but do you think that on the bases of that one case you can state as fact that the practice of Islamic belief was a motivator of the crime? Do you think if something like that happens you should punish all members of the community from where the perpetrators came? I'll bring it back to endemic child abuse by members of the catholic church, should we ban all priests?

Would you say that the default position of someone who believes in islam is extremist by definition? What makes Islam more open to extremism than other religions? How does the EDL campaigning prevent this?



You're very against Sharia law, it's very harsh and rather conservative. Would you say that your position in legal and social issues is the opposite? Are you against the death penalty? For government enforcement of equal pay for women? Pro-gay rights? Do you think that for people who have committed crimes that helping them in prison with education and social rehabilitation is more important than punishing them?


I'm asking that because I honestly don't think Islam is a threat, not in a way that makes it different from Christianity - actually I think Christianity is more of a threat to our way of life. I think the growing number of groups like the EDL are more of a threat to what I think is English than all the muslims  in the UK combined.

I was drawing the catholic comparison because I know you are a catholic. I was wondering if you could put your self in the position of a 17 year old Muslim youth, who's very identity is openly attacked by a load of skin head thugs. Do you think he has less right to practice faith, live in a community of other muslims, raise his children in his faith, than you do yours? Why?


No, because mosques aren't the cause of Islamic extremism. There are extremists who go to mosques certainly. There are paedophiles who become Catholic Priests. Do you think shutting down every catholic church in Britain would reduce the amount of paedophiles?




Yes you are. Think somebody else covered that already


How do you tell the difference between a moderate Muslim and an extremist?



Right I think that's long enough. I'm basically just procrastinating more important jobs at this point.

Hehe

Fucking hell, sorry I asked............


I don't think I've got anything to add excep to ask Cripsy if he thinks having a load of cunts like the first video posted marching through asian areas screaming abuse and smashing the place up is likely to:

a. persuade young muslim lads that there's nothing wrong with western society and they have a place in it

or

b. help drive them towards the very nut job islamists that he's so fucking scared off

Fuck knows I'm no friend of organised religion, and I'd dearly love to see very place of worship slowly crumble from underuse, but if you think opposing the building of the for just one faith isn't the sort of provocative act that just sows the sort of division your organisation claims to want to end, there's no fucking hope for you.

And in passing: this


is the biggest load of old shite I have ever read on this forum, and that's some fucking statement.

If the basis on which you posit this fucking ridiculous idea is one of free speech, can you not see there's just a fucking suggestion of contradiction in your statement?

If you're free to believe anything you like and express that belief, then I am equally free to consider you a braindead twat for believing it and to fucking tell you so.

These things cut both ways I'm afraid

You put it so eloquently, you really do.

As a matter of fact i can't see any contradiction in what i say, would you be so kind as to point it out? No where have i judged anybody or made a comment about anybody, i said i think people can believe what they want without being called a cunt. I didn't say that there shouldn't be debate over peoples views; something tells me though that your view is always right?

[/quote]

If you're free to believe anything you like and express that belief, then I am equally free to consider you a braindead twat for believing it and to fucking tell you so.

[/quote]

Also, why so angry? can you not have a reasoned argument without swearing and calling me a braindead twat?

And you have judged.

Just go back to your original post in this thread.

And now, "Muslamic Ray Guns", the Bhangra mix:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIPD8qHhtVU&feature=player_embedded

:D

Hmm ok i admit i did judge by saying some of you seem superior. For the record i think the same as the majority of the rest of the posters that the EDL are mainly comprised of racists/bigots/islamophobes, i was just saying that crispy could have his views without being judged :) I'm sure one day he'll realise it's a load of bollocks, but then who didn't/doesn't have some crack pot views as a young man?


young bean ;)

Apparently you can't speak out against Muslims because it's politically incorrect to do so, like it's politically incorrect to call the EDL/BNP/other abbreviated fascist organisations racist because some of their best members are black.

That EDL muppet has gone viral already.

The sad thing is that he probably won't understand that people are laughing AT him.

And they keep coming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJHpd8DnhgU&feature=related

"Mulamic Ray Guns" by EDL for Christmas No.1: Start the facebook campaign - we can do this.


I cant stop singing the chorus,

"they've got muslamic ray guns
muslamic ray guns
they've got muslamic ray guns
muslamic ray guns
ray guns ray guns"

Timeless.

I respect all religions and beliefs etc. However I think muslims could more to integrate into the western society. Building mosques shouldn't be prohibited, we have to respect their beliefs but I think they should respect our way of life more. I don't want to pigeon hole all muslims in the UK but a fair few I've met always try to convert me into their way of thinking, that their religion is the best, that if you don't follow their religion your living the wrong way. I think muslims try and enforce their beliefs on people of other religions more than any other religion and are far less tolerant of other peoples beliefs, way of life etc.  

The EDL does have racist undertones however I wouldn't say all members fall into that category.

Crispy doesn't come across as one anyway.

I'm not calling YOU a braindead twat, it wasn't you whose opinions I was asserting my right to judge based on the opinions they hold and express. I guess replace the "you"'s in the sentence with "someone" and "them" if that makes you feel better.

fair enough, i interpreted it wrong.

It does make me feel better though thanks  :D

Racist undertones? That is quite conservative.

How would you like Muslims to show this increased "respect for our way of life", and what exactly is our "way of life"? I've got an image of a guy in a turban, eating a bacon sandwich, pissed up, sitting outside the job centre, spitting racial slurs at a chinese man walking past.

Almost every religion has a small minority who see it as their purpose to try and convert people. Even seemingly passive forms of organised religion have such campaigners. It's offensive and not acceptable. Based on my experiences in Oxford and London, I've no foundation to believe that muslims even do this at all. Walk down Cornmarket Street in Oxford (the main shopping street in the city centre) on any day of the week and you can expect to see at least one, maybe two, stalls out pushing Christian Literature and attempting to draw you into a conversation, the motive of which is inevitably to convert or pursuade you. Then there is a fellow who is belting out his prophetic judgements for all and sundry to hear, phrases like "turn to Jesus or you will suffer when the time comes". Not once have I seen any Muslims attempting such shoddy tactics, and East Oxford in particular has a healthy Muslim community, so it is not due to a lack of presence.

In fact, the Islamic community here are known for their open-mindedness. Once a year there is a celebration of the Islamic faith, in the form of a street parade. People of all religions are openly invited to join their neighbours (and they do, en masse) and celebrate cultural diversity and the integration of people, regardless of faith. No preaching or attempted conversion or pursuasion takes place, it is merely the outward expression of the opposite sort of mindset which you claim Muslims (in your experience) to have - a willingness to integrate, accept, and celebrate difference.

I like the way you start a sentence with "I don't want to pigeon hole all muslims in the UK" then in the next sentence you pigeon hole all muslims in the UK ("I think muslims try and enforce their beliefs on people of other religions") based on your experience of "a fair few" - whatever that means.

Yeah, but muslimers are brown aint they.

Religion = belief/opinion = contention

I wonder why I'm not religious.  :(

edit: Lumps = opinion = self

I thought it was Sikhs that wore turbans not muslims?  :hmmm:

I get really fucked off when those Al-Rahman Witnesses knock on my door and force their literature onto me.

Most Sikhs wear turbans, some muslims also.

Strict Muslims don't eat Bacon/Pork.  ;)

Wooooooooosshhhhhhhhhhhh! But then most of this has passed you by hasn't it?

Oh dear crispy. I'm imagining you being so excited by the first sentence that you didn't bother actually reading it.

"Ha Ha! I'll show them that I'm knowledgeable about Muslims and their strange secret ways! I bet nobody else knows that they don't eat pork"

Nomnomnomnomnomnom

Just the fucking best post ever. Well just behind Si Pies Al-Rahman Witnesses post.

My misses was a (non-strict) muzzie when I first met her.

I think it was the bacon sarnies that bought her round.

The true Islamic Faith preaches tolerance for all religions, in fact if you go back to the Middle Ages, Muslim ruled countries were much more tolerant of other religions than those who were controlled by Christian rulers.

Prior to The Crusades, Jews, Christians and Muslims lived quite peacefully alongside each other in The Middle East.

The basis for most religions (Islam included) is the same, it's only when warped cunts with their own agendas get involved that they became hate filled and dangerous.

If the EDL want England to return to some halcyon days (Which probably never existed anyway) maybe they should demonstrate against the scummy element of society (Whatever their race or colour).

But then I suppose they would be demonstrating against most of their membership.

So, if they're so peaceful and tolerant what have they got these Muslamic RayGuns for then, eh? It's not for cooking their bacon sandwiches with, is it? We'll all be obliterated in our beds I tell thee

I can only go on my experience of muslims in this country.

Again I'm all for people practising any religion in which they choose to believe in.

We are more tolerent of other religions of course we are, try going into Saudi Arabia and act / dress the way you do in this country and see where that gets you. Try practising another faith in certain muslim countries.

That's a bit harsh on Oxford Fan! I'm sure a pair of dungerees and a pair of orthopedic shoes would go down a storm in Saudi Arabia.

And we're rightly proud of that tolerance which to me is a fundamental part of "Englishness"/"Britishness". Which is why so many of us find the idea of an organisation calling itself the English Defence League which seeks to make us as intolerant as it claims some Muslamic countries are, so objectionable. There's nothing English about bigotry and intolerance.

That's just superb.

I concur genius.

Brilliant stuff although the tosser actually sounds coherant on this!

No mate, a phobia is an irrational fear. It's not a phobia if you know why you don't like it.

It is if the reasons are complete bunk. People who suffer from arachnophobia know why they don't like spiders (hairy legs etc), but it doesn't stop the fear from being completely irrational.

Not that any of that's terribly germane to this discussion. It's racism, pure and simple, in the same way hatred of Jews is.

Being scared of a snake on TV, at long distance or in a cage is a phobia because there is no way it could possibly harm you.

Seeing a snake up close is not a phobia, because there is a legitimate reason for fear.

I like snakes, in fact I used to keep them as pets. But if I saw a Cobra up close and in the wild (which I have done), I would cack myself (which I did, proverbially)

Proverbially? A cack in the pants is worth one in the bush?

I've not found the right word there have I? It's bugging me.

Metaphorically?

Literally, I suspect. But then Jamie Redknapp seems to think that means metaphorically.

This thread has brought great entertainment to me today...

 - Attacks on Muslims and their rights based on a few isolated incidents concerning marginal extreme idiots
 - Claims about militant Islam growing with absolutely no concrete or even spurious evidence to back it up
 - Claims about Muslim communities without any consideration (or awareness) of the socio-economic factors which cause urban segregation
 - Attacks on all religions despite total ignorance over what they're based on, how they're practised, and how our society is built on (and continues to support) most of the things that they all believe in and practise more than Joe Bloggs
 - People protesting despite not knowing what they're protesting against or what they're trying to achieve
 
There have also been plenty of good points raised, and I understand people wanting to put Crispy in his place, but most of this thread has been comical.

He's not on the left
He's to on the riiiiiiight
That Paul Davis
He does love to bite

That actually seems quite homo-erotic. Maybe you should lead the TEF homo-erotic division Paul.

I see recently you have taken up rapping recently Simon.

You could be the white Master P :D

[url width=144 height=144]http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/tanswell2010/12a165a3.jpg[/url]

That song version is sen-fucking-sational.