New beginnings - 25% Truth, 80% Bollocks

[JoeMezz]

Not too sure but paying off Brand and Morris couldn’t have been cheap, also I know a significant amount has been spent on the CG this summer.

I also imagine the model of the data approach was costly to the club too. Granted, they cut it very quickly and it was a bit of a cut your losses but would have still cost the club money. The approach this season (albeit a couple of signings short) is spot on.

[skiptotheLouMacari]

How are we still losing that much money with our high gates, severe cost cutting and doing everything on the cheap? What’s the plan then for “sustainability”.

100% this.
Decent gates, loads of sponsorships and advertising.
Where is the money going?
Just like the Power era are we paying people for keeping quiet or return of investment.
I won't tune in because the lies boils my piss.

[DiV]

The money is most likely going players wages.
Thought that would be obvious.

[Mooneyraker]

The money is most likely going players wages.
Thought that would be obvious.

How many of our players are “First Touch” clients? Flynn is I believe.

[Legends-Lounge]

The money is most likely going players wages.
Thought that would be obvious.

That is IMHO very simplistic. Players wages are of course expenditure and a fixed cost. What appears to me anyway, to be ‘implied’ is financial ‘disbursements’ in ‘other’ directions. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

What is blindingly obvious and will come to fruition or otherwise is the critical need for a fucking whopping payday via the FA Cup from November onwards. Let us for a brief moment dream we storm the league and get promoted comfortably, gates wouldn’t exceed 11,000 home fans I feel, could be wrong but you know going on past glories.

[JoeMezz]

How many of our players are “First Touch” clients? Flynn is I believe.

First touch management - Standing’s agency right? I think Wakeling, Williams, Payne are. I can’t remember exactly and it’s hard to track down

[NotHarryAgombar]

I agree this stuff about the debentures is odd - I understand how the debt may have come to be owed to Power, but this would not have required much due diligence to find out, so I’m not sure why it’s a surprise.
I also recall reading a while ago that they hadn’t been “called in”, but that  the Eady Trust had insisted on them being dealt with before releasing the money to buy the ground.
Now we read that LP triggered the repayment at short notice - the story keeps changing, hence we are suspicious.

However, I disagree about the point that “with the gates we get we can’t be losing £0.5m a year unless someone is taking money out of the club” . I’ve tried to explain why below.
Without detailed information about current costs and income, it’s not easy, but from what we do know, I have made a couple of quick calculations -
Gate income - 23 home league games, average 8500 (approx) average ticket price £15 (an adult season ticket in the Arkells works out at slightly below that figure, my OAP ST in the Arkells is about £12.65 per game, kids cheaper, hence this is about right) comes to £2.93m, which, if you take off VAT comes to about £2.45m for the club. No home cup ties last season (apart from the Pizza cup, which will break even at best).
Players - 23 first team squad - average (say) £50k - some will cost more, other less. Assume National insurance and pension included here. We are probably also covering wages of Adeloye and Aguiar. This comes to £2.25m
There are 11 first team staff listed on the website - if you say some of these will be expensive (Flynn, Hatswell) while other on low wages,  the average cost will probably still be £30k to £35k - so say £350k.
So 1st team squad and staff basically cost around or a bit more than ticket income.
So this means that other income streams - EFL, TV money, sponsors, retail, food etc has to cover everything else - stadium running costs, pitch maintenance, rates, water, energy, travel to away games, insurance and medical fees, training ground costs etc, as well as the Academy and the women’s team.
If you add on the cost of getting Brand and then sacking him and Morris, and it’s not difficult for me to see that a loss of £500k could occur - without anyone “taking consultancy fees out of the club”.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

Though the last accounts showed a profit of c£150,000. How does that tally with losing £1m?

[UTR]

The figure I saw quoted was closer to 1m than 500k which justifies more questions in my opinion, let me try and find it again

[Bob's Orange]

Though the last accounts showed a profit of c£150,000. How does that tally with losing £1m?

I doubt that it comes to £1.15m, but that season we had the televised Port Vale play-off games as well as the FA Cup run, as well as the money-spinner against Man City. (not a clue how much these events brought in individually) And wasn't our wage budget severely constrained as we were under the embargo?

[Mooneyraker]

First touch management - Standing’s agency right? I think Wakeling, Williams, Payne are. I can’t remember exactly and it’s hard to track down

That’s the one. Wakeling… interesting.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

I doubt that it comes to £1.15m, but that season we had the televised Port Vale play-off games as well as the FA Cup run, as well as the money-spinner against Man City. (not a clue how much these events brought in individually) And wasn't our wage budget severely constrained as we were under the embargo?

Eh? What I meant was that if last year we showed a profit of £150,000 in the accounts how could we be said to be losing £1m every season

[horlock07]

That is IMHO very simplistic. Players wages are of course expenditure and a fixed cost.

They are not though really, one only has to listen to the growing plethora of players podcasts where they discuss contracts to hear that in the main they are full of incentivised clauses etc so play X games get a bonus, score a goal, get a bonus, keep a clean sheet, get a bonus etc etc. Similarly with all the transfers that are undisclosed there could be all manner of things relating to additional costs if said players plays so many games.

I agree this stuff about the debentures is odd - I understand how the debt may have come to be owed to Power, but this would not have required much due diligence to find out, so I’m not sure why it’s a surprise.
I also recall reading a while ago that they hadn’t been “called in”, but that  the Eady Trust had insisted on them being dealt with before releasing the money to buy the ground.
Now we read that LP triggered the repayment at short notice - the story keeps changing, hence we are suspicious.

WRT the due diligence issue I am wondering whether the opportunity to buy the club came up very quickly when Power (or more accurately perhaps Power's lawyer) fucked up with the pre-emption rights and Clem had to move very quickly and jumped without doing enough due diligence (to see this on a much larger scale see how Ashley fucked up when he took over Newcastle - https://www.theguardian.com/football/2008/aug/13/newcastleunited.premierleague ).

I've raised similar suspicions re the Eady Trust wanting them cleared, albeit I don't think I have ever seen any confirmation either way on that, like so much at the moment its conjecture at best.

Eh? What I meant was that if last year we showed a profit of £150,000 in the accounts how could we be said to be losing £1m every season

I don't think we have seen last years accounts let have we, most recent are those end May 2022.

[Nemo]

Eh? What I meant was that if last year we showed a profit of £150,000 in the accounts how could we be said to be losing £1m every season

I guess the suggestion is that there's a difference between the kind of "consistent costs/income" and "one offs" - things like the Man City game or the Twine sale that we can't rely on happening year after year. Without more detailed access to the finances or clearer answers, it's hard to know which one they mean.

[UTR]

Ah, “at least £500k-£1M per year”. Either way, my point is more about the sustainability aspect they’re driving for, if we’re still losing that (caveats for Brand and Morris payouts aside) when we’re already cost cutting so harshly and bringing on as many sponsors as we are (although some seem to be in exchange for service) then what’s the plan to plug that loss? How much further can we go. If we were flying at the top of the league then attendances probably still wouldn’t top 11k. We definitely can’t be relying on a big cup tie each year to plug that.

This is where my knowledge on it isn’t perfect but to me it seems like if we’re still losing close to the higher end of that range yearly with the skeleton set up we have (including the squad imo, we’ve had a whole summer hearing about us missing out on signings for money) then it’s troubling slightly.