New beginnings - 25% Truth, 80% Bollocks

[Quagmire]

Wouldn’t have thought owning the club would be a requisite for buying the debenture off Black. Couldn’t he have sold them to anyone he wanted to?

Not that I know.

But why would Clem want to buy them before he owned the club?

[ChalkyWhiteIsGod]

The staff numbers are a red herring - it includes any paid individuals, such as matchday staff.  The previous year was impacted by Covid, so the average hourly paid staff at match days was zero at times.

edit, plus they took concessions in house, so while the operating costs and staff numbers would have gone up, they replaced a single line item of costs in previous years.  You would suspect they did this as they expected better net margins, so the additional staff and costs would not be a BAD thing.

Ah gotcha. The catering was leased out wasn't it so yeah bound to be a big increase taking that back in house.

[horlock07]

Clem didn’t own the club when Power bought them.

Does anyone actually know when Power bought them? Do they hark all the way back to the heady days of St Modwens?

[Quagmire]

Does anyone actually know when Power bought them? Do they hark all the way back to the heady days of St Modwens?

I always thought Power bought them during the Wellens/Sheridan season, or around that time anyway.

[ChalkyWhiteIsGod]

there seemed little to no plan whilst Black was in the seat.

The biggest oversight by our fanbase. We were all just too happy to enjoy the ride.

Even that regime did fuck all with the ground or put anything really long lasting in place to help the club.

[RobertT]

Does anyone actually know when Power bought them? Do they hark all the way back to the heady days of St Modwens?

The Debentures were all created at the time of ownership transfer to Jed/Power in 2012 - edit: two were, two others were created at the end of 2011, which was when they started getting antsy if IIRC.

They were never changed until satisfied - which is why the whole 'ownership" question is murky at best.  There were three for Arbib and one for Black.

Previous Debentures were listed as Shaw Park Developments, these were satisfied under the Black ownership period.

[RobertT]

Oh, and I haven't done enough analysis, but it does look like Pre-Emption Rights were added to the Memorandum and Articles of Association at the time Swinton Reds re-allocated shares (diluted the value of shares, then transferred a volume to three parties - the two named individuals plus Axis Football Investments, which is Clem's investment firm for the club and how he routes some of the funds)

[ron dodgers]

So   ..... what do we actually know as fact?
debenture owners on settlement?
cost of running the club?
Flynn's favourite cheese?
anything else?
Anyone reading this thread from the Adver should be finding out, contact Kiely, Parladorio, Black, Arbib,
Morfuni.
 Is their journalistic talent limited to reviewing meat pies and curry restaurants? I guess so.

[horlock07]

So   ..... what do we actually know as fact?
debenture owners on settlement?
cost of running the club?
Flynn's favourite cheese?
anything else?
Anyone reading this thread from the Adver should be finding out, contact Kiely, Parladorio, Black, Arbib,
Morfuni.
 Is their journalistic talent limited to reviewing meat pies and curry restaurants? I guess so.

In their defence I suspect its more down to lack of budget than lack of talent.

[Mooneyraker]

Is Vic just taking questions out of the online comments tonight?

Not exactly clear how this is going to work.

[Trashbat?]

Good old Lee Power and the debenture, I suddenly remembered this from the court case back in 2021.

Lee Power maintains that Barry was never entitled to a 50% share of the club and only to half of the profits of a sale or other business. This arrangement would have given Standing (or Barry according to Power) half of the sell-on clause when former Swindon player Matt Ritchie moved from Bournemouth to Newcastle in 2016. That would be half of the £1.75 million received. Lee explained that since Ritchie was sold by a previous owner of Swindon, that money was owed as part of a debenture to Andrew Black (that owner). Standing accepted that......but then three years later he found out that Black had never received any of that money. The full £1.75 million stayed with Swindon/Power. That one is really astounding and the judge is very clear about what he thinks happened. He says “the strong suspicion is that those monies were paid to Mr Power, not the club”.

[Batch]

Is Vic just taking questions out of the online comments tonight?

Not exactly clear how this is going to work.

Disastrously I'd imagine.

I don't think they can win though, since pre -taken questions would be met with "it's being filtered" accusations.

But it's hard to articulate a question and follow ups live from Facebook comments

[oxonrobin]

And if anyone from the Trust is reading and really does care about holding the club to account, especially when being shown the Accounts in a darkened room under threat of being taken hostage, just show the club this:

https://www.carlisleunited.co.uk/club/finances/annual-audited-financial-statements/

I call BS on their response to you that such detailed info cannot be shared.  It's all a question of choice.  Put up or shut the fuck up about being open.

Wow, the pdf is amazing! Just so you know, if I ever become mega wealthy, and fancy STFC ownership, there is no way I will giving that level of detail!

[Mooneyraker]

Wow, the pdf is amazing! Just so you know, if I ever become mega wealthy, and fancy STFC ownership, there is no way I will giving that level of detail!

Exactly. The mantra of my reign of terror will be "Closed and Opaque".

[Mooneyraker]

We need Andrew Neil here. This is going to be a mess. Clem running it already.