Let's Get Political!

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

A referendum got us in, a referendum should get us out

[Red Frog]

The referendum produced a narrow vote to leave the EU.  Nothing more.  So why on earth would any of us, Remainer or Breciteer, have a problem with Parliament and NOT the government deciding what sort of new arrangements we favour?  Also, an English Court deciding on constitutional interpretation rather than Theresa May seems sensible.

Furthermore the Brexiteers cited the examples of Norway, Canada, Switzerland etc to illustrate the non EU alternatives, softening the adverse consequences of a hard Brexit

So let Parliament consider them.  The people have not spoken on this

So a parliamentary vote following a debate, leading to a resolution. As if the referendum never happened, in fact.

Can you get that genie back in the bottle?

[Reg Smeeton]

A referendum got us in, a referendum should get us out

No, Parliament got us in, after lengthy and rigorous debate. The initial referendum merely confirmed that decision. It should be the decision of Parliament to take us out, the referendum is merely advisory. It is up to parties and individual MP's how they interpret that advice.

Take, our two "Honourable" gentleman. Buckland was Remain, Tomlinson Brexit, the people of Swindon voted Brexit, therefore the advice to Buckland should be to vote for Art 50 as mandated. If his ilk and others feel in all conscience they cannot, then a GE must be called.

[pauld]

While I completely agree that the referendum was ill-founded, ill-thought out, largely conducted on the back of lies and ignorance on both sides and provides no meaningful template for how to actually proceed, it did nonetheless produce a clear, if narrow, result and MPs must respect that. As Reg says, if they feel they cannot, they should stand down and ask their constituents for a fresh mandate to oppose the popular will. Be interesting to see how many are willing to risk their careers, expenses etc for the sake of the principles they hold so dear. Ha ha

[Posh Red]

Fed up watching the victorious Leave side acting as if there was a 98% vote in favour of leaving.  There was not.  The margin of victory was slim

It always amuses me when the "well the majority voted for it" statement is used (not just for this but for elections as well).

In fact around 37.5% of the electorate voted to leave (admittedly more than the percentage that voted to stay), but far less than half of the electorate.

[Arriba]

It always amuses me when the "well the majority voted for it" statement is used (not just for this but for elections as well).

In fact around 37.5% of the electorate voted to leave (admittedly more than the percentage that voted to stay), but far less than half of the electorate.

How many of them voted to leave based on the 350 million pound nhs lie too i wonder?

[chalkies_shorts]

How many of them voted to leave based on the 350 million pound nhs lie too i wonder?

Probably less than those who voted to stay in case Armageddon was triggered

[Arriba]

Probably less than those who voted to stay in case Armageddon was triggered

Unlikely, considering potential Armageddon was not mentioned by the remain campaign. Unlike the nhs funding lies for the leave one.

[Reg Smeeton]

How many of them voted to leave based on the 350 million pound nhs lie too i wonder?

It would have been much better to have pointed out, the tax payer savings on EU budget contribution would be going to overseas companies like Nissan to keep them in the UK, and if you're doing it for them, then you've got to do it for the others. 

Good old skool Labour socialism right there, redolent of the Callaghan government spunking plenty of money on trying to keep Chrysler in Linwood. They took the money and promtly fucked off.

Sweet irony is that State aid to prop up industries is illegal in the EU....but once we're out then the Tories can pursue Corbyn style state intervention 
 

[Reg Smeeton]

Unlikely, considering potential Armageddon was not mentioned by the remain campaign. Unlike the nhs funding lies for the leave one.

Cameron predicted WWIII. Osborne emergency budget, hitting pensioners.

[Christy]

The leave lot should be delighted anyway, because they told us all they didn't vote leave because they're nasty anti-immigrant bigots but because of their high-minded belief in the principle of the sovereignty of the UK parliament, which this judgement upholds, so they'll all be well chuffed with this.

Just because no-one else has bumped this for 20 minutes or so.

And given I'm not sure that anyone knows what parliament will be asked to vote on, I don't think we can say they should follow the lead of their constituents, as the question will be different.  Although in that case, of course I'd look forward to Witney's latest chinless wonder voting on the Remain side, in accordance with his constituency's clear direction.

[pauld]

As per Reg's suggestion above, if they had any honour or integrity they'd wait to see what the choices were for them to vote on, assess that against how their constituents voted and either vote in line with that or, if they felt unable to, stand down and offer themselves up for re-election at the earliest. Of course the killer clause there is "if they had any honour or integrity". Which they don't.

[horlock07]

Cameron predicted WWIII. Osborne emergency budget, hitting pensioners.

Right, this is going to be fucking painful but here goes in the interests of accuracy......

Cameron never predicted WWIII, he merely stated 'Can we be so sure peace and stability on our continent are assured beyond any shadow of doubt? Is that a risk worth taking?', pointing out the origins of the EC and certain things Churchill had said - which was then spun by Boris (A biographer of Churchill don't forget) into something about WWIII.

Its difficult to comment upon Osborne's emergency budget as he has gone so we have no idea what he may have done, however the fact that Hammond has completely thrown away the Tories previous budget framework  on austerity, and borrowing targets and started throwing money around to prop up the economy which rather flies in the face of Tory ideology looks rather like an emergency budget in everything but name?

I don't recall any policy of thumping pensioners, but in light of their apparent inability to understand how legislation works, the role of the judiciary and in fact what sovereignty actually means whilst only taking their facts from the Mail and Express I can see the value in this as an emerging policy.

Right I have defended the Tories, I am off for a through jet washing - I promise I won't do it again!

[Reg Smeeton]

Cameron's implication was that somehow the EU was responsible for post war peace in Europe, and our withdrawal would undermine that, which is clearly total bollocks.

Peace has been maintained by NATO, an organisation containing the non EU countries Canada, US, Albania, Iceland, Turkey and Norway.  Conversely there are EU countries, which don't participate in NATO....Austria, Cyprus, RoI, Sweden, Malta, Finland.

[Arriba]

Cameron predicted WWIII. Osborne emergency budget, hitting pensioners.

Didnt hear that from Cameron, myself. I did Osborne though. Difference is, they didn't have those points as the basis of their campaign and also plastered on posters, in the background of speeches on tv and the sides of buses.