Let's Get Political!

[Flashheart]

I think that there is an element there of you also selecting the facts to suit your narrative.  The criticism that I note (reflecting my own narrative to be fair) is not that Corbyn and others condemn Jewish atrocities but that they fail to condemn Hamas etc. atrocities with even remotely the same zeal.

So, therefore, he's an antisemite?  

I'm (considerably) more critical of Israel than Palestine myself. Does that make me an antisemite as well?

[Pax Romana]

As far as I can tell... yes. Yes it is.

Ok, a fair response to my rather sarcastic jibe.

I can't quote chapter & verse on evidence and not sure I have the energy to try, but my understanding is that that a number of people have reported being harassed, insulted, threatened within labour party meetings.  

My understanding is also that where there has been written evidence the Labour party has been slow to act, have been very reluctant to expel them, and when forced to do so have readmitted fairly quickly.  You may challenge me on that and I'm hoping that someone else will provide some factual background.  I'm particularly thinking of some woman in a senior-ish admin post who was slowly expelled and quickly readmitted last year.

I do agree that the racism in the tory ranks is far worse and far less reported.  If labour consider that they are less bad than the tories then most reasonable people would surely agree.  But they could do better.

[Flashheart]

but my understanding is that that a number of people have reported being harassed, insulted, threatened within labour party meetings.  

 I would not be at all surprised if it does happen. They have more than 400,000 members. Any group of that size will have bigots of all flavours.

The question is really whether or not it is more prevalent than in other groups per capita, and an investigation by Home Affairs Select Committee says not.

[Pax Romana]

So, therefore, he's an antisemite?  

I'm (considerably) more critical of Israel than Palestine myself. Does that make me an antisemite as well?

But the implication I draw there is that you do readily criticise Hamas on the much less frequent occasions when you consider their actions merit it.

The charge levelled at Corbyn and others is that they go silent at that point.  Rather like the Ulster Unionists and Sinn Fein both roundly condemned half of the sectarian violence in NI.

[RobertT]

I would be very surprised if the anti semitism issue has much of an impact on the voting intentions of many when it comes to Labour in the election.  They have much bigger problems, namely being out of step with a core of their support in the Northern towns around Brexit, which is not helped by the leader essentially leading a party policy that is the inverse of his own natural beliefs on the matter.  Like it or not, that single issue will have a huge impact on the election.

[horlock07]

I would not be at all surprised if it does happen. They have more than 400,000 members. Any group of that size will have bigots of all flavours.

The question is really whether or not it is more prevalent than in other groups per capita, and an investigation by Home Affairs Select Committee says not.

The HASC also noted that leadership's lack of action risked lending force to allegations that elements of the Labour movement are institutionally antisemitic. Which rather supports the view that this is all rather self inflicted.

As every thinking person knows polls can say whatever you want them to say, so to counter from Wiki as I cannot be arsed to look elsewhere.

In September 2018, a Survation survey conducted for The Jewish Chronicle found that 85.9% of British Jews considered Jeremy Corbyn antisemitic, and 85.6% considered the Labour Party to have "high" or "very high" levels of antisemitism within the party's members and elected representatives. This compares to 1.7% and 6.1% for Theresa May and the Conservative Party respectively. This was an increase from 69% who considered the party to have "high" or "very high" levels of antisemitism in 2017.

In May 2016, a YouGov poll found that 49% of Labour members felt that the party did not have a problem with antisemitism, 47% agreed that it was a problem, but "no worse than in other parties, while 5% thought that antisemitism is a bigger problem in Labour than in other parties. In March 2018, a poll showed 77% of Labour members believed the charges of antisemitism to be deliberately exaggerated to undermine the leader or stop criticism of Israel, while 19% said it was a serious issue. However, a July 2019 poll by YouGov amongst Labour Party members found that 70% of members thought that antisemitism in the party was a "genuine" problem.

[horlock07]

I would be very surprised if the anti semitism issue has much of an impact on the voting intentions of many when it comes to Labour in the election.  They have much bigger problems, namely being out of step with a core of their support in the Northern towns around Brexit, which is not helped by the leader essentially leading a party policy that is the inverse of his own natural beliefs on the matter.  Like it or not, that single issue will have a huge impact on the election.

I cannot find it now, but there was some research a while back that suggested that the whole Labour northern voter is strongly brexit was actually a bit of a myth.

As for the issue going forward I note that much is being made by the right of the need for the Tories to engage with 'Workington Man' in this election. Having spent some time working in and living just outside Workington I cannot see what the Tories could do or promise to gain a lot of support there, they are genuinely hated in what is possibly one of the most left behind places in the Country.

However, whilst the seat was won by Labour in 2017 with 50%+ of the vote, the Tory gains in that election were almost entirely down to the collapse of the UKIP vote, and I can see them voting for Farage again.

[Reg Smeeton]

I would be very surprised if the anti semitism issue has much of an impact on the voting intentions of many when it comes to Labour in the election.  They have much bigger problems, namely being out of step with a core of their support in the Northern towns around Brexit, which is not helped by the leader essentially leading a party policy that is the inverse of his own natural beliefs on the matter.  Like it or not, that single issue will have a huge impact on the election.

This election is supposed to be about Brexit.... roughly, get Tories and it will be Johnson's deal or no deal.  Get the economic hit.

Vote Labour, get a new deal negoatiated and put to a referendum including remain.

Vote Lib Dem, revoke Art 50, and remain

[horlock07]

One thing that puzzles me in recent UK elections?

Its generally accepted that young professional people tend to be more centralist or left leaning, so why are the parties that support those PoV so crap compared to those at the right in using technology and social media to get their point of view across, I am possibly being naive but why cannot the centre/left use its supporters who one would expect to be much more clued up on 'modern' methods to influence the vote - bluntly why isn't there a left wing CA?

[Pax Romana]

I would not be at all surprised if it does happen. They have more than 400,000 members. Any group of that size will have bigots of all flavours.

The question is really whether or not it is more prevalent than in other groups per capita, and an investigation by Home Affairs Select Committee says not.

Agreed that no-one should condemn an entire movement based on the unauthorised actions of a small minority.  However you surely can legitimately criticise the movement if they fail to act swiftly and decisively when it occurs?

Child molester priests in a Catholic Church with a billion followers is sadly inevitable.  Shielding them until the publicity forced them to do something is what really attracted the criticism of the church hierarchy.

I'm sure you're right re the Select Committee.  Slightly cheap point by me, but is "we're no worse than the Tories" really what Labour should be aiming for?

[pauld]

Full marks to the Brexit rioters for rioting so quietly and considerately that you'd barely know they were there #quietRiot

[Peter Venkman]

Full marks to the Brexit rioters for rioting so quietly and considerately that you'd barely know they were there #quietRiot

In the words of the Kaiser Chiefs "I predict a quiet".

[horlock07]

Full marks to the Brexit rioters for rioting so quietly and considerately that you'd barely know they were there #quietRiot

[horlock07]

What happens when people reach their 40's?

[Flashheart]

What happens when people reach their 40's?

I'm going in the other direction.