New beginnings - 25% Truth, 80% Bollocks

[Mooneyraker]

It just relates to a certain amount of time having passed since documents were due, it may be shoddy paperwork, it may be that they have restructured things and don't need Seebeck sitting in the ownership chain any more, it always seemed odd/overcomplicated without having the full story  having Swinton>Seebeck>STFC Ltd. IIRC the debentures were signed up to when Jed took over using Seebeck as the vehicle, it may be that as they have now gone Seebeck isn't needed any more and will just be allowed to die a death?

I am not sure how much due diligence one can do based on rumours.

I haven't been keeping fully up with this (I really cannot eat that much popcorn) what is the problem with Kiely having a shareholding (bar the supporters not being told), I could sort of understand the Harding issues (albeit if he isn't an Agent any more not really sure what they are now), but what has Kiely done to suggest he is a wrong 'un?

Does the house of cards need to go anywhere, we are a football club playing football, god forbid we are actually playing football OK at the moment which makes a nice change?

It seemingly came as a surprise to the Trust that Zav, who according to the official club comms at least was to be Clem's man on the ground in the UK and Vice Chairman, was a convicted former drugs money launderer. That was some due diligence that they could have done quite easily.

To your other point, it was mentioned on here last night that there seems to be a possibility that the Club may have fallen foul on EFL rules regarding the Kiely shareholding, hence the changes to the Club website nearly 12 months after his part ownership began.

If we are staring down the barrel of a points deduction then the Trust and by extension the fans should know.

A lot of this comes back to the trumpeting of the openness and transparency on day one. When people say "why do we need to know?" the answer is "because they told us we would!"

[Bob's Orange]

It just relates to a certain amount of time having passed since documents were due, it may be shoddy paperwork, it may be that they have restructured things and don't need Seebeck sitting in the ownership chain any more, it always seemed odd/overcomplicated without having the full story  having Swinton>Seebeck>STFC Ltd. IIRC the debentures were signed up to when Jed took over using Seebeck as the vehicle, it may be that as they have now gone Seebeck isn't needed any more and will just be allowed to die a death?

I am not sure how much due diligence one can do based on rumours.

I haven't been keeping fully up with this (I really cannot eat that much popcorn) what is the problem with Kiely having a shareholding (bar the supporters not being told), I could sort of understand the Harding issues (albeit if he isn't an Agent any more not really sure what they are now), but what has Kiely done to suggest he is a wrong 'un?

Does the house of cards need to go anywhere, we are a football club playing football, god forbid we are actually playing football OK at the moment which makes a nice change?

In truth, possibly/probably nothing. The main/only issue I see is that nobody really knows anything about Kiely and your 100% correct, there is nothing to suggest at all there is anything malevolent in him being around.

My perception on why fans are going all Miss Marple, is that the transfer of shares to Kiely was 'done on the sly' which goes against what the club had set out to do when Clem took over. And there is the conspiratorial side as well whereby He's involved in horse racing, as is a certain Mr LP - although there is categorically nothing to suggest there is any link between the 2. In short, if all is above board and kosher, why didn't we make the statement about the Kiely's way back when?

I think as well in all honesty, having someone like Zav Austin around means that any 'new' blood that comes into play is always going to automatically be assumed he's the second coming of dracula.

[Batch]

AFAIK nobody has suggested Kiely is a wrong un. If they have such info they've not shared it.

So I think it's more the circumstances and secrecy, especially while the Eady money/JV was going on.

There have been various noises/speculation from various anonymous online sources that Clem may have other people involved on the quiet.

But if that was the case now he wouldn't need to borrow cash from even more other people (Kiely), right?

There are 101 (conspiracy) theories, or things you and I could make fit.

Why does it have to be like this! If only Clem came in, swept out the turds and kept it honest. if he then realised he'd need help via investment I can't see why people would  care (unless he borrowed/sold to an dodgy character or did it under stupid terms I suppose)
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Edit:

I do get nervous when shares get 'owned' by lawyers though. First though (already made by someone else) is 'whose he holding that for '.  Seems to have been reduced below 10% now though.

I also had my own CT. For another time.

[Nemo]

I don't endorse either of these theories, but I think the nightmare scenarios are:

1) Ultimate ownership/control is still with Power or more likely Power's associates, and Clem is just a "clean" front-man

2) The whole thing (or part of it) is just a front for Michael Standing who wasn't allowed to be owner as an agent (although he no longer is to my knowledge)

I'm sure the reality is more nuanced and less disastrous than those, but I think those are the the root of people who are worries about this, and the apparently unnecessary lying (lets call it what it is) from Clem raises those concerns.

[Quagmire]

With regards to Michael Standing possibly ‘running’ the club.
Is there any reason this could be a bad thing, or is it just a case of the court case and him being a former agent is the only reason he’s behind the scenes and it’s not out in the open?

[Nemo]

With regards to Michael Standing possibly ‘running’ the club.
Is there any reason this could be a bad thing, or is it just a case of the court case and him being a former agent is the only reason he’s behind the scenes and it’s not out in the open?

At the point at which it was first alleged, he was an active FA agent and not allowed to play a part in running a football club, which is what the FA charges that still hang over us were about.

In the context of 2023 where he is no longer an agent, it's probably totally fine, but I know nothing about the guy other than him being friends with Gareth Barry.

[Batch]

for me it would be because he's a former agent with a possible conflict of interest. But it doesn't have to be like that/bad.

That was my CT, that he's a hidden partner but stopped funding because the court case isn't resolved and no guarantee it'll go his way. Almost certainly bollocks.

[Mooneyraker]

At the point at which it was first alleged, he was an active FA agent and not allowed to play a part in running a football club, which is what the FA charges that still hang over us were about.

In the context of 2023 where he is no longer an agent, it's probably totally fine, but I know nothing about the guy other than him being friends with Gareth Barry.

Unless Michael Standing's money is actually Gareth Barry's and around and around we go!

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/16756690/gareth-barry-fa-charge-swindon-deal/

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

Standing is trying to get his money back from Power - hence the civil court case. Whatever the outcome of that will influence the FA charge.

What pisses me off is that whilst this is still hanging over us Clem has further muddied the waters regarding who is and isn’t involved in STFC. It isn’t a great look. No lessons learned.

[BambooToTheFuture]

My take on what might happen in due course and feels a bit like history repeating itself somewhat:

Keily invests in STFC in the background >> Keily becomes shareholder in STFC >> Clem sells STFC to Kiely or Kiely becomes majority shareholder of STFC.

The reason it feels like it would be history repeating itself is that Clem pretty much did similar in his acquisition of STFC. Invested in the background >> Became a shareholder >> Became owner of STFC.

There's no reason why, with the recent ''reshuffle'' that in time, Kiely ends up being the new owner.

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It will be very telling as well, what Standing's position is once his court case is legally complete...Does he come back into the fold? Maybe he's never really left - unofficially 

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The sad part is that this 'mostly positive' article was only written a year ago

https://www.forbes.com.au/covers/investing/why-winning-sometimes-comes-second/

There's some rather sensationalist comments from the Adver in there - shock

[horlock07]

1) Ultimate ownership/control is still with Power or more likely Power's associates, and Clem is just a "clean" front-man

I don't think its remotely as clear cut as that, but from murmurings close to Power it could all get messy once the court case is finished.

[Batch]

Does Kiely have the funds to run a football club?

Quite surprised he had the assumed £1m+ for the 'loan', but what do I know

[horlock07]

Does Kiely have the funds to run a football club?

Quite surprised he had the assumed £1m+ for the 'loan', but what do I know

None us know anything, that's the problem. It seems to have become fact that because Clem couldn't rustle up a cool £3m at short notice he is apparently skint, Kiely is taking over, not taking over, selling to bad people, selling to good people. Standing has money in the club, doesn't have money in the club, is an Agent, isn't an Agent, meets FA criteria, doesn't meet FA criteria!

How much of what has been discussed over the last 200 odd pages is based upon hard raw evidence and how much on conjecture, god forbid any of us if we rolled up in court and faced a jury all wearing Swindon scarfs! 

[BambooToTheFuture]

Does Kiely have the funds to run a football club?

Quite surprised he had the assumed £1m+ for the 'loan', but what do I know

Who knows but does Standing/Barry/Some other unknown entity have the funds to do so and would they be happy to have Kiely as the 'front'?

But remember...

'Clem is 1OO% the owner of STFC', oh sorry I mean 'Clem 1OO% owns STFC' 

And don't you even think about questioning it 

[BambooToTheFuture]

None us know anything, that's the problem. It seems to have become fact that because Clem couldn't rustle up a cool £3m at short notice he is apparently skint, Kiely is taking over, not taking over, selling to bad people, selling to good people. Standing has money in the club, doesn't have money in the club, is an Agent, isn't an Agent, meets FA criteria, doesn't meet FA criteria!

How much of what has been discussed over the last 200 odd pages is based upon hard raw evidence and how much on conjecture, god forbid any of us if we rolled up in court and faced a jury all wearing Swindon scarfs! 

Your above post only shows how little clarity from the club there really has been and that most definitely falls at the hands of the current owners. If things were actually clear {which they really bloody aren't'} then a good chunk of us probably wouldn't be asking/conspiring/theorising on which godforsaken scoundrel genuinely does have their filthy mitts on STFC at this moment in time. CH may say one thing today but I think many of us realise that whilst legally accurate, it is probably not the true state of affairs.

It's a good job a lot of us STFC fans enjoy bog snorkelling

#Muddy