New beginnings - 25% Truth, 80% Bollocks

[STFC_Manc]

No I get that, but I don't expect it.

But in absence of them I can't make any case based off even educated ballpark figures.

What I was hoping for was someone to point out something obvious, like revenue includes so and so and isn't really 6m into the account.

Actually, maybe it included the cash Clem put in, it could be that simple

No that wouldn't be classed as turnover, the thing to do is to use other clubs accounts and try to make sense.


 

[Batch]

That's an extremely sensible suggestion. It'll have to wait until later in the week.

[RobertT]

What are you looking for Batch?  Our accounts for 21/22 are the last available, the 22/23 ones won't be posted until Feb/Mar time I think, so we have a while to wait, and they are always so far in arrears anyone can make a claim about them not reflecting the here and now.

Clem paying debts would not hit the P&L.  It would be shown within the Balance Sheet - on the last ones produced it shows Clem has Director Loans as well as a loan he has made via the Axis funding company (so it's still him for now, unless he ever sold that business).

We have no insight in how the 2.9m Debenture was resolved, in terms of the precise nature of who gave what, what the terms of repayment were, or if it was a simple equity transaction.

The accounts we did produce showed a small Profit, which plenty of people identify as the Man City game, but that would still place us at running around break even if we removed it.

Clem and others have had to pay off debts, on top of running a club that (the only evidence available shows) runs at break even.  It's entirely possible that Clem sees that as losing money each year, because he has to keep putting in cash.

[Trashbat?]

Just did a random look at Tranmere’s accounts for 21/22. They did £5.5m in revenue on 6.5k attendances, knocked out of the EFL cup 1st round and FA cup 2nd round. They did however have a £1m grant in extra income.

They had the 4th biggest wage bill that season and only made a loss of £160k.

[Batch]

@rob - I guess I've seen a lot of "it doesn't add up" messages on social media and kind of wanted to prove it did.

But I guess there's to many unknowns.

@teashbat thanks

[RobertT]

We don't publish anywhere near enough detail to make it all make sense!  Less open and more closed, when it comes to providing financial information I'm afraid, more opaque, less transparent.

In terms of pure income, based on what we have for 21/22, we look like we are one of the big clubs for this Division.  In terms of wage budgets, it's really tough, but we spend as much (in total, as a business) as some of the clubs who people would call out as running at losses or being bank rolled, like a FGR for example.

Our 21/22 finances were a smidge better than Northampton, who got close to our income thanks to player sales of 800k.  They made a loss of a little under 200k, so spent close to our level in that year.

[RobertT]

Exeter City spent as much as we did in 21/22, which was supported by player sales.

They provide a breakdown of where the income comes from in their accounts.  Just stating because it shows more detail can be provided, it's all a choice by the business owner around how much insight they provide.

[Trashbat?]

https://www.weareimps.com/siteassets/news/202223/january/accounts/lcfc-annual-financial-statement--summary.pdf

Can only dream of something like that

[RobertT]

Interestingly, they are part owned by fans and have funded the yearly losses by issuing new shares each year, so they owe next to nothing in debt to anyone.

Given Clem has already diluted his share holding, there would be nothing stopping him doing similar.  I've mentioned before that the Trust should be doing only two things from now - the JV and then coming up with an investment option for the club itself.  That could be a good old bucket rattling effort, or seeking out investors to partner with.  Push Clem into the open on whether he would accept others being onboard to help.

[Bob's Orange]

I just reread the statement and the bit about the January Transfer window just sounds a bit odd to me.

'I have been having discussions with Michael Flynn and Jamie Russell regarding strengthening our squad in the January transfer window, which I will personally be overviewing.

I will be there in January to support the hard work between Michael Flynn, Wayne Hatswell, Jamie Russell & Anthony Hall.'

What football expertise does Clem have that he needs to be overviewing the transfer process? I'm not really sure his presence is really needed for this is it? If he's so keen to be open and transparent and he is in Swindon in January, why not setup another fans forum at the ground so he can personally face fans questioning.

A minor point in what's going on but there we are.

[tans]

I thought this was odd also. No experience whatsoever

[Cookie]

Inflation has been circa 10% and if I had to guess, L2 player wages a bigger increase than that. This is pretty significant cost increase not covered by an equivalent increase in income.

[Cookie]

I just reread the statement and the bit about the January Transfer window just sounds a bit odd to me.

'I have been having discussions with Michael Flynn and Jamie Russell regarding strengthening our squad in the January transfer window, which I will personally be overviewing.

I will be there in January to support the hard work between Michael Flynn, Wayne Hatswell, Jamie Russell & Anthony Hall.'

What football expertise does Clem have that he needs to be overviewing the transfer process? I'm not really sure his presence is really needed for this is it? If he's so keen to be open and transparent and he is in Swindon in January, why not setup another fans forum at the ground so he can personally face fans questioning.

A minor point in what's going on but there we are.

I agree, very odd. My interpretation is he is here for the financial side of negotiating, in case some additional capital is required he can make those executive decisions more quickly. Sounds silly now I've typed it out.

[DV]

I just reread the statement and the bit about the January Transfer window just sounds a bit odd to me.

'I have been having discussions with Michael Flynn and Jamie Russell regarding strengthening our squad in the January transfer window, which I will personally be overviewing.

I will be there in January to support the hard work between Michael Flynn, Wayne Hatswell, Jamie Russell & Anthony Hall.'

What football expertise does Clem have that he needs to be overviewing the transfer process? I'm not really sure his presence is really needed for this is it? If he's so keen to be open and transparent and he is in Swindon in January, why not setup another fans forum at the ground so he can personally face fans questioning.

A minor point in what's going on but there we are.

Surely as the owner and what is effectively his money - Clem needs to be part of the negotiations / approve / agree the deals / contracts.

I mean leaving the responsibility of your money in someone else’s hands doesn’t always go well; just ask Andrew Black.

[tans]

I thought we had a head of recruitment? Isnt that his job, Clem just signs it off?