New beginnings - 25% Truth, 80% Bollocks

[Nemo]

It was a clumsy and stupid thing to say and I'm glad he's clarified it but I'm really not sure this is some kind of beyond the pale moment that some seem to. I'd be more worried about the things he's done (or not done) than the things he said in the moment.

[RobertT]

It was a clumsy and stupid thing to say and I'm glad he's clarified it but I'm really not sure this is some kind of beyond the pale moment that some seem to. I'd be more worried about the things he's done (or not done) than the things he said in the moment.

I'm not worried - I think his slips of the tongue just bely the way he operates, which is with very little regard for the fans, despite the PR.  What is clear is that there isn't really a coherent plan in play and it seems evident he is far removed from any details or the operation.  It's a pretty big thing to have occurred in the history of the club, let alone the tenure of Clem.  You'd think it wouldn't be that hard to remember what happened.  But no, a need to show himself to be some fans saviour meant he forgot the details and fucked up.

[UTR]

I’ve checked out of the ownership issue debates but these fan arguments of “he’s the devil” Vs “he’s our lord and saviour that cannot be questioned” are very reminiscent of the same early Power debates. You’d have hoped as a fan base we’d have learnt something from that and instead realised that the reality is usually at least somewhere in the middle.

[RobertT]

My lack of presence on X or FB probably helps my sanity I presume, because nearly every poster is a shade of grey on here, no?  Very few, if any, going full believer and maybe one or two ready to dig a hole in some dark secluded woods.

[RobertT]

And 80%+ of the fanbase probably isn't even paying any attention.

[Mooneyraker]

I’ve checked out of the ownership issue debates but these fan arguments of “he’s the devil” Vs “he’s our lord and saviour that cannot be questioned” are very reminiscent of the same early Power debates. You’d have hoped as a fan base we’d have learnt something from that and instead realised that the reality is usually at least somewhere in the middle.

Was the reality with Power “somewhere in the middle”?

[UTR]

Was the reality with Power “somewhere in the middle”?

“At least”. I could have worded that better to be honest but it’s a Friday night

[theakston2k]

I’m confused as to the point of that statement, he doesn’t actually admit that what he said on Wednesday was a complete fabrication of the truth or apologise for it. It’s clear in his own head he believes what he said on Wednesday is the real ‘truth’.

[RobertT]

Was the reality with Power “somewhere in the middle”?

You see, it could be.  Just very far to one side.  If we follow the advice of some, and ignore the behind the scenes stuff because it's not our club and we can't change anything, then Power managed a Div 3 Play Off Final, a further Div 3 Play Off finish and a L2 Championship alongside a record transfer fee received (I'm ignoring the two relegations to the bottom Division for the sake of making a stupid point).

[Mooneyraker]

“At least”. I could have worded that better to be honest but it’s a Friday night

Yeah, sorry, I’m not lawyering you! Just making the point that we are fresh off the back of Jed and Power, both of whom would have gladly seen the club wiped from the map.

I actually like Clem, which I could not say of those arseholes.

I’m undecided about his intentions. I suspect he simply can’t shake off the hangers on for reasons as yet unclear that we could speculate about, and is basically rather naive, not a details guy and in over his head.

[Mooneyraker]

You see, it could be.  Just very far to one side.  If we follow the advice of some, and ignore the behind the scenes stuff because it's not our club and we can't change anything, then Power managed a Div 3 Play Off Final, a further Div 3 Play Off finish and a L2 Championship alongside a record transfer fee received (I'm ignoring the two relegations to the bottom Division for the sake of making a stupid point).

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Lee Power would be a cracking lower league salaried Director of Football.

When it comes to business, he’s got the fecal touch, by design, and shouldn’t be allowed near another one again.

[UTR]

My opinion on it at this stage is that Clem has the right intentions but is doing a lot of things very wrong and bringing a lot of avoidable heat on himself.

But since the last ownership, I’ve been extremely guarded and sceptical of the new owners and I think fans are well within their rights to be. My point was more that I don’t like how fans who are justifiably sceptical of things are shut down so quickly by other fans without a reasonable response just as much as I don’t like how some fans are clearly making up shit to throw at Clem (the foundation park stuff etc).

At the end of the day, we’ve just come out of the last ownership where people were calling them out extremely early (way before they actually left) and got shut down by other fans instantly without much reasonable reverse argument and a lot of those early shouts ended up having some truth. You’d have hoped we’d have learnt from that. So I don’t blame anyone for asking questions.

I’ve seen very few debates on this that are a reasonable middle on both sides, it’s always at least one side is in the “he’s the devil” or the “he’s our saviour that can do no wrong” camp and it’s just mind numbing to read because there’s never going to to be a reasonable debate there when one half is like that.

[Batch]

What is clear is that there isn't really a coherent plan in play and it seems evident he is far removed from any details or the operation.  .

see putting aside the legit/stooge for shysters stuff, this is the most concerning.

one minute he's accepting that football clubs lost money, the next he sort of says he doesn't want to put more money in...

if we are losing 500k-1m* then I'm still none the wiser if he's intending to put the cash in it rack up the debts while flailing around.

* if..

not that there's is a thing we can do

[STFC_Manc]

see putting aside the legit/stooge for shysters stuff, this is the most concerning.

one minute he's accepting that football clubs lost money, the next he sort of says he doesn't want to put more money in...

if we are losing 500k-1m* then I'm still none the wiser if he's intending to put the cash in it rack up the debts while flailing around.

* if..

not that there's is a thing we can do

You seem a bit fixated on the £500k-£1m losses, while it's far from ideal.  It's part of being a league 2 team, in fact it's probably better than most.

The potential loss will be if we don't sell any players, no cup runs, on a certain level of attendance. If any of them come off, then it will start to eat into the loss.

[RobertT]

I think Batch is saying the worry is more the lack of clarity over what it means.  Is it that we accept such a loss and run with it or is Clem saying we have to make cuts, still?  The number hasn't changed either, so have previous Operational cost savings been matched by a loss in Revenue?

It's the detail and the implication that is missing.