England V Wales - Will You Be Working Or Watching?

[Abrahammer]

eh?

Le Tournoi https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Tournoi_de_France

Those were the days!

[Red Frog]

Le Tournoi https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Tournoi_de_France

Those were the days!

Ah, how could I forget?

(I was here, and I still have no recollection of that happening.)

[Bob's Orange]

This is true, pretty much everyone has struggled against well organised defended in this tournament

Spain are probably the only team that have managed to overcome this. Yes they left it late against the Czech Republic but they still managed to create that crucial opportunity to win the match.

[Bob's Orange]

So which of you cunts are going to be honest, and admit Wales deserved to the win the group?

Thought not.

Just catching up with the comments and I have to hold my hands up and say that Wales do deserve to win the group. Thrashed a woeful Russia side that we should have put away and also beat Slovakia, again a team we should have put away. We sneaked a win against you but by not getting what we should have done against Russia, we paid the price and Wales top the group. Well done by the way.

[Tails]

Think we're a better team than Wales but ultimately they finished their chances and we didn't. Would have been interesting had Russia and Slovakia lined up with the same 10-0-0 formation against Wales as they had done against us.

[RobertT]

Think we're a better team than Wales but ultimately they finished their chances and we didn't. Would have been interesting had Russia and Slovakia lined up with the same 10-0-0 formation against Wales as they had done against us.

But this is where we have failed for generations - no craft or ingenuity in the final third to unlock both types of defence at International level, the teams who put everyone behind the ball or the teams with top class defenders.

Our players generally look a bit clueless in how to generate those moments.  We don't readily bring players through who can beat multiple players by themselves or slot an eye of a needle ball through a packed defence several times in a game.

We created chances - but you should do when the other team sits on their 18 yard line.  It happens too often to be an issue of "luck".  We get through qualifying groups most of the time because only the really rank useless teams try to block it out, the average teams will open up more in the initial groups.  Once in a tournament it's a fight for every point, and we've done nothing as a country to focus on improving the English talent.  Nobody in our team is truly world class, and nobody has the potential to get there (maybe Dier, at a stretch Alli).  Rooney maybe should have been but never quite hit it for me.  Even our Golden Generation were still shy of having it.  I'm not saying we are bad, just not good enough (and with the money in our game and pool of people who take up the sport, we should do better).

[Bob's Orange]

My take on last night.

Barring an almost catacylsmic error by Cahill/Hart the defence had nothing to do last night.

I thought Clyne was a dangerous outlet at RB (where all our chances seem to be created in each game) and Lallana again played well. Its such a shame he can't finish as all our clearer cut chances keep falling for him. Eventually he'll scuff one into the corner rather than smashing it cleanly down the keeper's throat!

Vardy should have scored his golden chance and I think we would have ended up winning that more comfortably. Until we take these chances teams are going to sit in against us as we're easy to play against.

Wilshere was a waste of time, I still have no idea why he was picked ahead of more worthy players who had played well in the PL last season, but that is another discussion. Rooney came on and was a big improvement. Henderson probably wasn't as bad as I thought last night, but his delivery into the mixer was generally bobbins. Dier my man of the match, i know he hates the tag, but he really is an excellent utility player.

I would have liked to have seen Rashford come on instead of Kane. With the tightly packed Slovak defence, the movement and trickery of Rashford more likely to create an opportunity than Harry Kane who seems to be running in treacle at the moment.

Overall, frustrating, but a totally dominant performance but without the most important aspect, and that is putting the bloody thing in the net. Vardy and Alli's chances aside, I can't remember a clear cut chance. That has to change in the knock outs, I think it will.

[Red Frog]

Wilshere was a waste of time

I could swear someone in the bar called him Wheelchair last night.

Is that a thing? If it isn't, can we make it one?

[Bob's Orange]

I could swear someone in the bar called him Wheelchair last night.

Is that a thing? If it isn't, can we make it one?

Yeah its a thing. I generally try and avoid football nicknames, as they are generally shit and unfunny.

[Reg Smeeton]

But this is where we have failed for generations - no craft or ingenuity in the final third to unlock both types of defence at International level, the teams who put everyone behind the ball or the teams with top class defenders.

Our players generally look a bit clueless in how to generate those moments.  We don't readily bring players through who can beat multiple players by themselves or slot an eye of a needle ball through a packed defence several times in a game.

We created chances - but you should do when the other team sits on their 18 yard line.  It happens too often to be an issue of "luck".  We get through qualifying groups most of the time because only the really rank useless teams try to block it out, the average teams will open up more in the initial groups.  Once in a tournament it's a fight for every point, and we've done nothing as a country to focus on improving the English talent.  Nobody in our team is truly world class, and nobody has the potential to get there (maybe Dier, at a stretch Alli).  Rooney maybe should have been but never quite hit it for me.  Even our Golden Generation were still shy of having it.  I'm not saying we are bad, just not good enough (and with the money in our game and pool of people who take up the sport, we should do better).

Your analysis has a lot of validity, but the reality is that you can win tournaments without necessarily being that good, but rather getting things right like being able to take pens....that has been our single biggest flaw over the last recent years. There are now 12 England players who've missed a pen in either a WC or Euro shoot out....that's not luck.

[Don Rogers Sock]

Ah you may have a point Reg but how many have scored penaltys.

[Sippo]

Think we're a better team than Wales but ultimately they finished their chances and we didn't. Would have been interesting had Russia and Slovakia lined up with the same 10-0-0 formation against Wales as they had done against us.

Oh fuck off. Wales were superb last night. They could have played for the draw, but went for it.

If a team plays defensively, then it's the oppositions job to break them down.

Wales were the best team of the group and the stats show that.

[Reg Smeeton]

Ah you may have a point Reg but how many have scored penaltys.

18 in the 6 games we've gone out in.....so an average of 3 a shoot out, not good enough. We did beat Spain in 96.

[Bob's Orange]

18 in the 6 games we've gone out in.....so an average of 3 a shoot out, not good enough. We did beat Spain in 96.

Which is the only knock out game we have won in the history of the European Championships.

[Don Rogers Sock]

Oh fuck off. Wales were superb last night. They could have played for the draw, but went for it.

If a team plays defensively, then it's the oppositions job to break them down.

Wales were the best team of the group and the stats show that.

Of course you were but the constant need the Wales fans are showing for the pat on the back is making me sick. They won the group so fair play to them but i will judge who has done better on who goes further it's as simple as that. The first aim is to get out the group and both teams done that it really doesn't matter if that's 1st or 2nd