Georgia vs. South Ossetia & the Russians

[leefer]

Shocking Reg.....the russians eh,first ones to whinge when us brits and the yanks invade other countrys for the right or wrong reasons(wrong in my opinion) but its fine when they trangress,its about time the millions of people who hate war and brutality let the minority know its not on anymore,its always woman,children who take the brunt of war when a few fukin knobs rage war....after all when was the last time a politician died in the line of duty.

[wheretherealredsare]

Do you think I should putin for it?

 

Leave it to me ... I'll have a word with Vlad and his boy Dima

Department of Useless Information Newsflash - Here in Kazan the city's team are sitting at the top of the Russian Premier League. They are called Rubin! Makes STFC seem a little closer. Been a few times and always get a strange look when I start shouting "Coome ooon youuuuu reeeeds!" ... probably because they play in green.  

[wheretherealredsare]

Shocking Reg.....the russians eh,first ones to whinge when us brits and the yanks invade other countrys for the right or wrong reasons(wrong in my opinion) but its fine when they trangress,its about time the millions of people who hate war and brutality let the minority know its not on anymore,its always woman,children who take the brunt of war when a few fukin knobs rage war....after all when was the last time a politician died in the line of duty.

  not biting!

[sonic youth]

                    Then raise the scarlet standard high,
                    Within its shade we'll live and die,
                    Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,
                    We'll keep the red flag flying here.

[Rich Pullen]

                    Then raise the scarlet standard high,
                    Within its shade we'll live and die,
                    Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,
                    We'll keep the red flag flying here.

How cliche

[sonic youth]

who is your new avatar?

[Rich Pullen]

who is your new avatar?

Probably the most asked question of the day

Jenna Fischer from Blades of Glory, but more importantly the American version of The Office. She's by no means perfect but to quote Alan Partridge, "Ah [Jenna], lovely [Jenna], she's my favourite"

[url width=450 height=356]http://www.aolcdn.com/aolpolltool/jenna-fischer-sexy-time[/url]

[Leggett]

she's very purty indeed. i quite liked the american office...

[janaage]

WRRA can I just ask are you in Russia?  You tell us not to listen to what we are being told but are you not doing the same in Russia?  South Ossetia is part of Georgia isn't it, so Georgia obviously doesn't really want some military leader deciding that S.O. will soon become independent from Georgia.

Quite why the ruskies have come in heavy handed to "liberate" SO, and quite blatently on SO's side, I'm not sure.

(I am being devil's advocate here fella - just trying to understand what's going on really).

[SwindonTartanArmy]

Me and the missus are following this with interest as we were there not long ago. I had to laugh when the russians said the only way it would stop was if the georgians withdrew their troops. Erm, last I checked, South Ossetia was in Georgia, not Russia!

[Ironside]

Me and the missus are following this with interest as we were there not long ago. I had to laugh when the russians said the only way it would stop was if the georgians withdrew their troops. Erm, last I checked, South Ossetia was in Georgia, not Russia!

You should take into account that the borders of the current regions nations are from Lenin's time.

They do not reflect the pre-Russian Revolution(s) borders which were largely laid along ethnic lines.  Hence the two provinces of Georgia, populated by mainly ethnic Russians.

Interesting fact. When the USSR broke up, Russia lost 18% of its population because of Lenin's borders compared the pre-revolution.

[Ardiles]

I'm certainly not an expert on the area, but it does seem as if all sides are to blame in part.  It looks as if this is a part of a much wider power struggle between Russia, which is trying to maximise its influence in the area, and the US together with a number of states bordering Russia (Georgia, Azerbaijan etc.) which are trying to minimise it.  He started it, no she did...we'll never really know.  It doesn't really matter...it was going to flare up anyway some time soon.

wheretherealredsare's - promise I'm not having a pop, but your earlier posts sound very biased towards Russia.  I simply don't accept that a complex dispute like this can be as black & white as your posts suggest.

[Lumps]

None of this is black and white, and the idea that either of the major players in this conflict is playing to role of peace-keeper with no longer term strategic objectives is incredibly naive. The basics are these,

In the break up of the Soviet Union Georgia asserted it's independence on the basis of its established borders under soviet rule. This included two areas, South Ossetia and Abkhazia which were predominately ethnic Russian.

Back in the early 90's there was a minor civil war as these areas themselves attempted to establish independence from Georgia, a movement which the Georgian state moved to suppress. Things settled into some sort of balance when a multinational peacekeeping force, including Russians and Georgians was estblished to maintain order in these two areas which were given some autonomy, but remained formally a part of Georgia. Since there's been a simmering war between SO separatists and Georgia, with tacit, and some concrete Russian support being given to the separatists. Russia has in the intervening period been issuing Russian passports to a significant proportion of the ethnic Russians in the region, meaning that there are now thousands of Russian citizens in both enclaves.

On Friday, the day after agreeing a caesefire and to take part in peace talks the Georgians, thinking the attention of the world is on China and the Olympics tool up and steam into SO in an attempt to round up the separatist leadership (the sort of thing that Israel does in the West Bank and Gaza about every other month, steam in blow a lot of shit up, kill a few rebels, capture a few generals).

For some reason the Georgian leadership MASSIVELY underestimated the reaction this might provoke in Russia. Within a couple of days Russian ships, aircraft, troops and armour had flooded the area, taken control of the SO region and were attacking Georgian military bases in the border area.

This is the point at which Saakashvili declared a ceasefire and started whining about Russian aggression. In metaphoric terms it looks like a bullying 12 year old has just given a little 8 year old kid a good slap and is now crying because the kids 15 year old brother has come along and knocked the crap out of him.

However, what we all need to consider is to what extent the 15 year old has been encouraging his little brother to piss off the 12 year old in order to provoke just such a conflict.

None of the characters in this little drama are exactly attractive. All of them are looking to their own strategic and economic interests. None of them really give a shit about the local population.

[LucienSanchez]

After days of trying to understand it, Lumps has cleared it all up in that post. Cheers!

[axs]

This is the point at which Saakashvili declared a ceasefire and started whining about Russian aggression. In metaphoric terms it looks like a bullying 12 year old has just given a little 8 year old kid a good slap and is now crying because the kids 15 year old brother has come along and knocked the crap out of him.

However, what we all need to consider is to what extent the 15 year old has been encouraging his little brother to piss off the 12 year old in order to provoke just such a conflict.

that sums it up for me. thanks lumps.