Thetownend.com

Looks like there is a slight bit of light at the end of the tunnel for Bolton,   but not much,   Feel for Bury fans, they look doomed. Still 20 minutes for it all to turnaround but wouldn't  want to be a fan of either club at the moment.

Starting to sound like the Hereford scenario now:

https://www.burytimes.co.uk/news/17863510.bury-urge-fans-not-damage-gigg-lane-takeover-collapse/

http://thetownend.com/index.php?topic=57656.msg1510088

Ten minutes left and although things maybe going on behind the scenes it's not looking good for either team from this side of the fence.  

So presumably this Dale character is going to make a shedload of money selling off Gigg Lane and the land to property developers?

According to Sky reports neither team have reached a conclusion,   will they now follow through with their threat or will there be another extension ??.

EFL Deadline now passed.

EFL Say Bury discussion still going on and expect to make an announcement around 7.00pm.

Bolton say without any takeover bids winding up could start as early as tomorrow.

I think a lot of it is secured against loans.

It's where it gets murky and probably why people have been put off.  Day secured loans from his other businesses against the ground, those other businesses went under and claim they are owed the money.  Day seems to believe he has taken on the loans, as he put them in the CVA, which seems to have been to load the debt and ensure a CVA was entered.  I have no idea what that means in the liquidation scenario, but it's caused real issues in getting a buyer.  Either Dale has rolled a dice and lost, or gone dodgy as fuck and comes out smelling of roses from the disaster.  I have no idea!

Bury now saying in talks with EFL as more bids have come in

As much as I have nothing but sympathy for the fans of both clubs, this kind of situation shouldn’t be allowed to occur for the good of all clubs across the football league. At some point a deadline is going to have to stick and the clubs should be wound up, it can’t go on forever

^^^^ Agree. If they are expelled, I’d hope it’d be a wake up call for other clubs to get their shit together and not the trigger for others going to the wall.

According to twitter Jill Neville has now bid for Bury

Surely the same problem persists as C&N found - there just isn’t time to get a deal done in time?

Bury  now reporting they have 3 new offers on the table,   FFS,  could still be dragging on into next season !!!!!.

https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2019/august/statement-on-behalf-of-paul-appleton-joint-administrator-for-bolton-wanderers4/?fbclid=IwAR3ig9wJXmpGorIkVsAPzWhSQYcN6sVbEdoXcCRGwmV9kSp8ADvfptoMzDk

Whilst not wanting Bury to go under as a club, how can the EFL justify them remaining in the League now this deadline has passed? The credibility of the league has already taken a hit by allowing 5 games to be postponed, surely extending this further will mean even more postponement, which is fair to no-one.

To make matters worse, you just know McCrory is shuttling between Bolton and Bury to see where he can get the best deal.

Sorted it

It's very sad state of affairs...

I don't want to be in that position..

Yep, shouldn’t joke about it. There are obviously deeper issues that affect all clubs the lower down we go, but neither Anderson nor Dale appear to have covered themselves in glory.

I think the issues are prevalent across the sport as a whole (in the UK, can't speak for all other countries), the big factor is the higher up you go there seems to be more of a support network/a lot of cash masking the issues.

Now we may not like it but the only way I can see "small clubs" properly surviving in the future, is a bit like in Baseball - via affiliation. We've started it here with Prem Clubs having affiliation to foreign clubs. While the top down approach isn't the best, it may add some security for clubs further down the pecking order. Yes it sacrifices identity but I feel the sport and of course the suits don't really care about identity any more. As usual it is the fans who suffer, whether in receipt of liquidation (no club) or selling your souls to affiliation (club with no true identity).

I guess this brings around the whole "Red Bull Salzburg" conversation and such like. I do think that is the way the UK will go. As stated, football does have a few toes in that direction already.

Hypothetical but IF Town ever became an affiliate club, who would you prefer to be associated with?

Bury officially expelled.

Absolutely no interest in this approach and if the thought is even entertained we may as well give up with the lower leagues. Citing American sport as an approach to follow is ludicrous, you support a club exactly for the sense of identity and history, becoming an ‘affiliate’ would throw away 100 plus years of history and you would just become part of a franchise.  I’d be out, you would effectively become the ‘B team’ what’s the point in that?

Sad news but not unexpected,  feel for the fans, Bolton must be shitting themselves now.

Before football can move forward some inherent conflicts need to be resolved.

The EFL needs to effectively regulate clubs. It needs teeth, so that it can impose effective sanctions on clubs that breach those regulations. But a conflict exists, because the EFL needs the owners that it is seeking to control to vote for more stringent regulation. They surely won’t.

Players want to be paid well. Clubs can not afford to pay them what they demand. Clubs overreach. If a salary cap applies, players will sit in reserve teams and lower league sides will loan not buy them. This keeps the clubs higher up the pyramid as the owners of the saleable assets in football, whilst the rest of us rent. This is already happening - creating a vicious circle where poorer clubs don’t get the windfalls that they used to.

Then there’s the separation of the PL and Football League and the fact that the success of one is detrimental to the other. The PL will never vote for any measures that look after the game as a whole, rather than its own members alone - so money will continue to be concentrated at the top.

I could go on for hours. This is desperate news. If any good comes of this, hopefully it is to correct some of the above. If that means less Sky money, lower wages, and even lower quality football - fine - football’s focus has to be sustainable success, not success for the PL at the expense of the game.

gone. sad for the history and the fans. clubs always get saved at the final hour...I didn't think this would actually happen

Bolton now been given 14 days to complete a takeover deal,  or go the same way as Bury.

Only one relegation place for league 2 this season. Feel sorry for Bury fans.

Let us be clear here. I'm not suggesting that this IS the approach I would follow. I'm saying it may be the ONLY way it can go in the future. As I said, we may not like it but the powers that be don't really care about that any more.

Either way you look at it Theakston, if you had to choose, would you prefer to have a club throw away 100+ yrs of history via poor mismanagement and thus liquidation or throw it away via controlled support chain, thus affiliation? The out come is the same - you lose your club. One may exist professionally in some form, the other may never exist professionally ever again.

I guess this is a conversation that is going to increase more and more as these circumstances arise. Something clearly needs to be done. We probably aren't the people to do it though.

A 50 + 1 German model would be a much better solution. It works really well.

I don’t understand why people complain about the premiership teams not helping, these teams have vastly overspent so why on earth should they effectively say “here have some more money to spend inappropriately”?
The fault is firstly with the clubs for going beyond their means but also that of the football league who allow such callous overspending to occur all throughout the leagues

I don’t see it as the clubs fault - they are not charities. The issue, as I see it, is more to do with the structure that has been created. PL clubs act in their own interests - not the interests of the 92, because of the split with the FL. That has created a huge financial divide, and means that clubs that can not afford to pursue “the dream” still chase it, part because fans demand it, part because some unsavoury owners see it as a short term quick win. If the divide was not as great, there would not be the same level of overspending to gamble to get there.

You can’t put that particular genie back in the bottle. Smaller clubs, like ours, should be compelled to provide full and transparent financial information to an independent auditor to check how clubs are actually being run.

The problem is by the time it has become apparent a club is in the shit it’s already too late.

The paradox is that clubs and EFL need owners and, at the moment, it seems any old twat will suffice.

Could have easily been us, or a dozen other clubs. More will go for sure.

Whatever spin you put on it, the fact is that the transfer fee paid for just one top Premier League player would not only have saved Bury, but made them wealthy. That is the tragedy and scandal of modern football. And, in no way is Bolton a 'smaller' club. If Bolton goes, every club outside the top ten clubs in the PL is potentially at risk. There has to be action from the authorities.

Unfortunately the problem doesn't just lie with clubs overspending,  a clubs biggest bill surely lies with the players wages, massive wage demands,  weekly wages that many of us would be happy to earn in a year.    Players need to look at themselves,  however I suppose that is human nature,   we all aim for the most we can get in life.

Yep, there but for the grace of God etc etc...

It's not the only option, you just operate within your means and if it means dropping down the pyramid then oh well shit happens.  Ultimately I can see the professional game reducing to 3 leagues.
Being an affiliate would make you a B team, Swindon Town wouldn't exist anymore apart from in name so it's effectively the same as getting liquidated. Not an option in my view and would also mean we'd have an artificial ceiling imposed on us as we wouldn't be allowed in the same league as the parent club.

Thing is wages are set by the 'market' and whilst there are these massive disparities in clubs budgets within the leagues its always going to be an issue.

The other issue is this idea that this is down to a lack of money filtering down the pyramid from top to bottom. I am not convinced that this would not make things worse for lower league teams in the long run as more money sloshing about could encourage the clever chancers to take an interest, at the moment we have the 'greedy dreamers' who see an opportunity to make a few quid but don't have the nous or ability to pull it off (see both here with Jed v. Power and also Dale at Bury who I suspect was hoping for the big payoff sale and ended up with very little for the hassle), if the possible returns became 10's milllions not 10's thousands you are going to get a different level of shyster on the scene.

Feel desperately sorry for Bury fans, hopefully a wake up call for all, needs root and branch reform at all levels from the FA down, sadly cannot see that happening.

 ....or even Lee Power? He has, in the face of enduring criticism from fans, brought some order to our affairs. The di Canio days may have been fun, the McCrory days the opposite....both would probably have ruined our club. Power has brought sustainability. No we haven't had the on-field success we long for. Yes he probably underestimated what it would take to get that  success. But we have a club. And now we have a football team that may bring us success too.

Hundreds of Town fans would disagree but the majority of us agree with you.

Hes not the best owner but we are not in a life threatening position on life support like many clubs. We may not be ready to run marathons yet but we are lo longer waiting for a transplant, although we do visit the asthma clinic every now and again!

With the risk of being branded a commie.. It's not just football it's the way society is geared, reward the few at the expense of everyone else. It's driven by business not players. Look at Nike I read somewhere that Sterling was considering a £100 million boot deal. That's just utter craziness and drives everything else.

Sums it up really

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDA4EmDWkAMmxAl?format=jpg&name=900x900)

As fans of a lower league club i am sure we can all identify with what all Bury fans must be going through this morning. A range of emotions including frustration, anger and disbelief, although mainly absolute devastation that the team you support is no longer in existence. Football is an institution, a religion, a community activity and most of all, for many of us, a family activity,  something that has passed through the generations, grandfather to father, to sons and daughters. It's what we do every Saturday, or at least every other Saturday and sometimes in midweek. It's something we think about, talk about, write about, even tweet about. It helps shape our lives, our values and who we are. So to have it taken away will, for many, be like the death of a loved one - in as much as their lives will continue, but with a massive void and feeling of emptiness.

The blame lies with many:

The 20 original members of the Premier League for breaking away from the Football League, creating a tier 2 system
Sky TV  for the obscene amount of money paid to the PL, thus fuelling similarly obscene player wage inflation
Premier League clubs for not recognising the importance of the football pyramid by agreeing to a more even distribution of funds through solidarity payments to the 72 EFL clubs
Excessive parachute payments to clubs relegated from the PL, thus creating a further divide in revenue between those clubs and the remainder of the Championship, causing further player wage inflation further down the pyramid
Championship clubs for chasing "the dream" of promotion to the PL,  by over stretching budgets to match the clubs benefitting from parachute payments
EFL governance is weak, the Fit and Proper Persons Test is a joke -Steve Dale is prime evidence of this - and FFP is not working as owners find ways to work around it
Fans wanting their clubs to chase the dream, demanding owners overspend
All of this encourages unfit, unscrupulous and frankly in some cases disinterested owners putting clubs at severe risk

Bury's demise is a disaster for Bury fans. I hope the legacy is one of change which prevents this happening to other clubs.
My fear is like Boris Johnson and his right wing agenda, that irrespective of the consequences on the masses, the self interest of the wealthy will always prevail. The rich, in this case the big 6, will get richer and the poor, leagues 1 & 2, will get poorer and many will cease to exist.

RIP Bury.

Spot on kirky. The League and FA should hang their heads in shame, the big 6 will be rubbing their hands at the continuing weakening of the lower leagues. Steve Dale and Ken Anderson should never be able to show their faces in public again.

A small glint of light for Bolton supporters...

http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/northwest/news/2047163-bolton-liquidation-put-on-hold#

really? very much doubt that.

The obvious rule would be sustainable caps but we have them in place


How did Bury spend so big year on year without this being scrutinised. its been flagged on here for years with the old experienced they kept signing. I understand that an owner can pump money into the club to increase turnover and help with wages but its obvious this wasn't happening?

edit * a bit more...

You can have all the rules you want, but when there's no transparency and no will to enforce them, they're just bits of paper. Same with the Fit and Proper Persons test, it's a joke, because it's designed to be. Bear in mind that it is clubs (and hence ultimately the owners of clubs) who vote for changes to the league rules, you're asking people, some of whom are trustworthy and some of whom are not to the extent of outright criminality, to vote for tighter regulation and scrutiny of how they do business. Never going to happen, needs an independent regulator with some actual teeth

UNder Di Canio we were placed under a transfer embargo.  He was angry with the board because we had voluntarily updated our % wages to turnover forecasts after signing some players and had breached the cap.

I often defend Power, because he plays within the rules provided, but one area of governance that could be toughened up easily is to enforce full account disclosure regardless of a clubs turnover (which is what dictates the need to produce full accounts for a business).  They should also have to provide half yearly updates going into January that are made public.

I honestly believe the PL is not even remotely scratched by this - the days of any sort of reliance on the pyramid have gone.  The reality is they could play in empty stadiums and absorb it.  They could play in a different country every week and absorb it.  We have to shift our reality - whether or not they fully separate, they don't need the game we watch anymore.  The football we watch probably needs to shift - we need to be in a place where any club could "survive" without a benefactor in charge, but how do you do that?  The best way is an equal distribution of funds from the central pool provided by the EFL, regardless of league position or league played.  The clubs won't vote for that, so someone has to take control at the top.  Next, we probably have to accept cutting the PL free and replacing promotion with some sort of cyclical bid system based on a combination of performance and ability to fund being in that division - if they outbid the bottom teams in the PL we have a swap occur.  Does it ruin the spirit of the game, yes, but it's ruining it already.  Not just for those almost in reach who never quite make it, but clubs this far down as well.  We will adjust to the PL almost being like a different sport, and then the PL clubs can split themselves up into a European League if they fancy.  Let them get on with it, we can have Division One back and get back to the sport we remember, just without some of the names that used to play it.

An overreaction maybe, but can football sustain 4 professional leagues long term?

It currently has 5 and a half - all bar a few of the teams in the Conference are professional now. And quite a few in Conference N/S

Yes, players at this level may not earn a fortune, but they earn above the national average.  It requires a complete reset of the game though - hence suggesting we cut the PL adrift.

Remember we are also adding more and more unsustainable women teams to the list

I'd like to see the premier league shipped out to the far east, three divisions here with the Championship being the top tier. Bring football back.

Bury Great Britain. Good summary of the last twelve hours.

Indeed, here are just 3 times I have mentioned about their precarious financial state so how the fuck did the FL/FA allow them to go on like it when everyone could see it.

And it did.

On that basis who do you think maybe next ?.

Christ you have turned into Reg!!!

To be fair to PV he was spot on and wasn't sitting on the fence one bit.

Yeovil, Notts County, Macclesfield, Hartlepool, Chesterfield and with clouds hanging over Coventry and Bristol Rovers, Morecambe, Oldham, Southend and Blackburn.

All have posted losses for operating years lately, some with massive losses like Blackburn and some like Rovers actively looking to sell asap without funding any playing replacements.

I think divisional wage caps might be the way to go as it was many years ago to try and save football from financial ruin. Although I know a lot of people on here wouldn't agree, I think clubs overspending on wages chasing the dream of promotion to the Premier eventually is what has taken a massive toll on clubs finances.

Absolutely, Sometimes even a blind man can see whats happening, also my view is of another club not just negativity aimed at our own club just for the sake of negativity.

If I truly thought we were in the shit then I would say we are in the shit, not go into details of how we MAY go in the shit, but it MAY get better.

FWIW I don't think we are in the shit :)

Bury appeal to the EFL

Dan Roan just mentioned Reading as another club having problems paying wages. Had anyone heard of financial problems there?

I doubt they appeal to anyone very much at the moment :)

https://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/reading-fc-players-not-paid-16207189

And that lot down the road. And several others.

Bolton deal finally completed

Makes it seem now as though Power has not done a bad job.  Never been a fan of the man but can't really complain when you look at the state of some of the other league clubs,  might be a penny pincher, and still may have alternative motives, but  things as they stand, maybe not the cunt I always thought he was.

Or maybe he is, but not as bad as some of the other cunts :)

Bolton saved....takeover done...

Takeover done maybe, Bolton saved might be too early to call. "Saved for now" might be more appropriate, the underlying issues haven't gone away, we're yet to see what kind of a mess they're still in

It's ok, uncle Jeremy has promised to sort out football. Political point scoring cunt!

Sounds like a lot of the finance is buy now pay later, could be a while before that ship rights itself, plus they'll have the further penalty at some point for missing a game last season.

Bolton saved....for now...

And one this season. TBH going down is the least of their worries, that's pretty much a given. They've only got 4-5 days left to sign pretty much a full squad. They may well have some lined up already, but let's face it, it's going to be barrel-scraping at best

so what actually happens with Bury now? If im correct in thinking all that's happened is they have been kicked out the football league and can't enter a new league until next season. The club it self still exists?

If a takeover went through next week would they keep any staff until 8 months time? or get rid of everyone and recruit again ready for next season. It is a strange scenario as its very different to a club being liquidated (unless of course that is the next step)

That's them doomed then if Roan has started showing an interest!

By a thread, yes. The most immediate thing is to find a buyer. But it would need to be a buyer who's prepared to sink in the money required to clear the debt, and keep the business at least ticking over (stadium rent, maintenance, minimum staff etc) until next season with no income at all this season and no guarantee of what level they'd be able to re-enter at (and hence what income they'd get) next season. Not going to be many takers for that proposition, I'd have thought

I think the best thing for Bury is for the fans, Council and community to get together and start afresh, any purchase of the company/club will just lead to some money ending up in Dales pockets via the CVA. I suppose the only issue is who actually owns Gigg Lane and whether that can be retrieved somehow?

I'd guess that's what underpins Dale's strategy - he thinks he can come out of all this with a valuable piece of real estate, unencumbered by inconveniences like football clubs traipsing all over it. Otherwise it just doesn't make any sense at all

Isn't it mortgaged up to the eyeballs though, better explained here https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/27/bury-historic-club-football-league-financial-ruins

So it appears some offshore companies now have a £3+m charge over the ground?

More here https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jun/18/bury-inside-story-financial-ruin-winding-up-petition-loans-car-park

and here https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/may/29/bury-financial-crisis-loan-former-owner-stewart-day-winding-up-petition-debt

Accrington Stanley chairman giving an open and honest play through of this last chance bidder

https://twitter.com/andyhholt/status/1167343570304589824?s=21

Sorry, yes I wasn't very clear. My assumption was that either he was looking to be able to come out of it all as the owner of the land or that if someone ultimately wanted to use the land for development (or indeed football) that he'd be able to benefit from some of those charges as some have (I think) been transferred to his companies. But tbh it's such a tangled mess it's impossible to really tell, I was just trying to fathom some sort of motive for what would appear to be a pretty random and ridiculous way to conduct a business.

According to today's Times, the Pink Floyd drummer is an investor in the consortium that has bought Bolton (cue Another Brick in The Wall jokes, Dark Side of the Reebok etc etc). The two main drivers in the consortium are apparently wealthy and experienced local business people so hopefully this is actually a rescue, not just a temporary reprieve.

Could bring back one of their old strikers so that Mason can See Emile Play?

Mason who lives in Corsham.  Why isnt he investing local!  Git.

Wish he was here?

Don't you mean Dark Side of the University of Bolton Stadium?

Get with the times granddad!  ;)

Sorry, but I'm feeling comfortably numb about the whole thing. Still only time will tell, if they have the money!

Pigs might fly!

Nick Mason is not a football fan, hes in it as an investment project, he was just friends with the main consortium member Sharon Brittan who used him to bankroll the takeover as she didn't have the funding.

Much like Jeremy Wray and Andrew Black with us a few years back. As soon as he sees that he won't get a quick return on his investment he will be out of there.

Next time I see him Nick Mason, I'll ask him. I'll check if the helicopter is on the lawn.

Still. at least we have the Division Bell!

Sounds like he's having a bit of a meddle.

Anyone know what happens to Bury's place in the FA Cup?

Sent from my Mi A1

A few days ago the FA were "now consulting with our stakeholders regarding the first round proper following their exit from the league. "

Not seen an update, could have missed it.

With our recent cup record I reckon we could get knocked out by "Bye"

You would guess 1 team will be given a free pass to round 2 - but then they lose out on revenue despite having an advantage of going to the next round

Give it the highest-ranked team last year, so whoever finished 22nd in the Champ.

Bolton kids are beating Bradford and Devitt has done his hamstring.

Soccer Am are after six town fans to appear on their prog this Saturday. Contact [email protected]

I’ll on reflection this morning put a caveat in as I saw this on my FB feed, seem genuine though but you never know.

Oh jesus, I can't wait to see the level of bellend we get representing us... :D

I can think of a few from that FB group that will be falling over themselves to attend

Is it live?

Until I read this I never even realised that Soccer AM was still on Sky, I haven't watched it in about 12 years, it went quickly downhill when Lovejoy left the programme I thought they took it off the air.

I get the feelings of bury fans who like us in the past/present have been well shafted. However if bury are allowed into league two next year presumably the club that finishes 23rd at the end of the season will then be relegated rather than getting a reprieve. Don't suppose the fans of that club would feel that great, as bury with their shenanigans stay in the league and their club that did nothing wrong are relegated?

And what about previous clubs who have been slung out and has to start at the bottom of the pyramid

Yeah, it doesn’t sit right with me that Bury be allowed into league two next season. They’ve been expelled from the football league, they should have to work their way back into it like everyone else

surely they can't allow Bury back in unless the EFL shouldn't have expelled them in the first place (i.e. breached their own rules somehow)

Quite.  Its the same case of bad management which has blighted many a club.  Just because they are old they should not be treated differently.

They have rules?  :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

I remember that when we were in our most recent deep shit the FL were quoted as saying/ruling that if we went into admin for a third time we would be ejected from the football league. We had paid our players and staff, had not been accused of illegal acts and had missed NO GAMES. The selective treatment of some teams in a much more aggressive manner by the FL seems to be confirmed by the Bury situation.

It shows a much more pro active approach. Don't know why this is the case can't have anything to do with us not being relegated two divisions on appeal! I was on the first not third March!

They didn't, it was a rumour/speculation that they would take that view.

I seriously doubt that any 'third strike' threat would still be in place so many years later.

I always reckoned if we went into admin a third time we should get to keep the judge's wig

Turns out Bury were deducting pensions from staff pay but not paying anything into the pension fund. A deficit of around £100,000!

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/bury-staff-missing-thousands-of-pounds-from-pension-pots-c7gjgtl3l

Ouch! Hence the visit from Inspector Knacker then....