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Author Topic: Bolton & Bury continuing fiasco.  (Read 25182 times)
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« Reply #30 on: Tuesday, August 27, 2019, 23:07:22 »

Only one relegation place for league 2 this season. Feel sorry for Bury fans.
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BambooToTheFuture

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« Reply #31 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 00:26:41 »

Absolutely no interest in this approach and if the thought is even entertained we may as well give up with the lower leagues. Citing American sport as an approach to follow is ludicrous, you support a club exactly for the sense of identity and history, becoming an ‘affiliate’ would throw away 100 plus years of history and you would just become part of a franchise.  I’d be out, you would effectively become the ‘B team’ what’s the point in that?

Let us be clear here. I'm not suggesting that this IS the approach I would follow. I'm saying it may be the ONLY way it can go in the future. As I said, we may not like it but the powers that be don't really care about that any more.

Either way you look at it Theakston, if you had to choose, would you prefer to have a club throw away 100+ yrs of history via poor mismanagement and thus liquidation or throw it away via controlled support chain, thus affiliation? The out come is the same - you lose your club. One may exist professionally in some form, the other may never exist professionally ever again.

I guess this is a conversation that is going to increase more and more as these circumstances arise. Something clearly needs to be done. We probably aren't the people to do it though.
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« Reply #32 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 05:08:19 »

I think the issues are prevalent across the sport as a whole (in the UK, can't speak for all other countries), the big factor is the higher up you go there seems to be more of a support network/a lot of cash masking the issues.

Now we may not like it but the only way I can see "small clubs" properly surviving in the future, is a bit like in Baseball - via affiliation. We've started it here with Prem Clubs having affiliation to foreign clubs. While the top down approach isn't the best, it may add some security for clubs further down the pecking order. Yes it sacrifices identity but I feel the sport and of course the suits don't really care about identity any more. As usual it is the fans who suffer, whether in receipt of liquidation (no club) or selling your souls to affiliation (club with no true identity).

I guess this brings around the whole "Red Bull Salzburg" conversation and such like. I do think that is the way the UK will go. As stated, football does have a few toes in that direction already.

Hypothetical but IF Town ever became an affiliate club, who would you prefer to be associated with?

A 50 + 1 German model would be a much better solution. It works really well.
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« Reply #33 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 05:47:25 »

I don’t understand why people complain about the premiership teams not helping, these teams have vastly overspent so why on earth should they effectively say “here have some more money to spend inappropriately”?
The fault is firstly with the clubs for going beyond their means but also that of the football league who allow such callous overspending to occur all throughout the leagues
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« Reply #34 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 06:26:52 »

I don’t understand why people complain about the premiership teams not helping, these teams have vastly overspent so why on earth should they effectively say “here have some more money to spend inappropriately”?
The fault is firstly with the clubs for going beyond their means but also that of the football league who allow such callous overspending to occur all throughout the leagues

I don’t see it as the clubs fault - they are not charities. The issue, as I see it, is more to do with the structure that has been created. PL clubs act in their own interests - not the interests of the 92, because of the split with the FL. That has created a huge financial divide, and means that clubs that can not afford to pursue “the dream” still chase it, part because fans demand it, part because some unsavoury owners see it as a short term quick win. If the divide was not as great, there would not be the same level of overspending to gamble to get there.
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The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey

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« Reply #35 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 06:41:09 »

You can’t put that particular genie back in the bottle. Smaller clubs, like ours, should be compelled to provide full and transparent financial information to an independent auditor to check how clubs are actually being run.

The problem is by the time it has become apparent a club is in the shit it’s already too late.

The paradox is that clubs and EFL need owners and, at the moment, it seems any old twat will suffice.
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suttonred

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« Reply #36 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 06:48:42 »

Could have easily been us, or a dozen other clubs. More will go for sure.
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« Reply #37 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 06:57:46 »

Whatever spin you put on it, the fact is that the transfer fee paid for just one top Premier League player would not only have saved Bury, but made them wealthy. That is the tragedy and scandal of modern football. And, in no way is Bolton a 'smaller' club. If Bolton goes, every club outside the top ten clubs in the PL is potentially at risk. There has to be action from the authorities.
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swindonmaniac

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« Reply #38 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 07:06:20 »

I don’t understand why people complain about the premiership teams not helping, these teams have vastly overspent so why on earth should they effectively say “here have some more money to spend inappropriately”?
The fault is firstly with the clubs for going beyond their means but also that of the football league who allow such callous overspending to occur all throughout the leagues
Unfortunately the problem doesn't just lie with clubs overspending,  a clubs biggest bill surely lies with the players wages, massive wage demands,  weekly wages that many of us would be happy to earn in a year.    Players need to look at themselves,  however I suppose that is human nature,   we all aim for the most we can get in life.
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« Reply #39 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 07:27:05 »

Could have easily been us, or a dozen other clubs. More will go for sure.
Yep, there but for the grace of God etc etc...
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« Reply #40 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 08:17:22 »

Let us be clear here. I'm not suggesting that this IS the approach I would follow. I'm saying it may be the ONLY way it can go in the future. As I said, we may not like it but the powers that be don't really care about that any more.

Either way you look at it Theakston, if you had to choose, would you prefer to have a club throw away 100+ yrs of history via poor mismanagement and thus liquidation or throw it away via controlled support chain, thus affiliation? The out come is the same - you lose your club. One may exist professionally in some form, the other may never exist professionally ever again.

I guess this is a conversation that is going to increase more and more as these circumstances arise. Something clearly needs to be done. We probably aren't the people to do it though.
It's not the only option, you just operate within your means and if it means dropping down the pyramid then oh well shit happens.  Ultimately I can see the professional game reducing to 3 leagues.
Being an affiliate would make you a B team, Swindon Town wouldn't exist anymore apart from in name so it's effectively the same as getting liquidated. Not an option in my view and would also mean we'd have an artificial ceiling imposed on us as we wouldn't be allowed in the same league as the parent club.
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« Reply #41 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 08:29:38 »

Unfortunately the problem doesn't just lie with clubs overspending,  a clubs biggest bill surely lies with the players wages, massive wage demands,  weekly wages that many of us would be happy to earn in a year.    Players need to look at themselves,  however I suppose that is human nature,   we all aim for the most we can get in life.

Thing is wages are set by the 'market' and whilst there are these massive disparities in clubs budgets within the leagues its always going to be an issue.

The other issue is this idea that this is down to a lack of money filtering down the pyramid from top to bottom. I am not convinced that this would not make things worse for lower league teams in the long run as more money sloshing about could encourage the clever chancers to take an interest, at the moment we have the 'greedy dreamers' who see an opportunity to make a few quid but don't have the nous or ability to pull it off (see both here with Jed v. Power and also Dale at Bury who I suspect was hoping for the big payoff sale and ended up with very little for the hassle), if the possible returns became 10's milllions not 10's thousands you are going to get a different level of shyster on the scene.

Feel desperately sorry for Bury fans, hopefully a wake up call for all, needs root and branch reform at all levels from the FA down, sadly cannot see that happening.
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RWB Robin

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« Reply #42 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 08:30:04 »

Yep, there but for the grace of God etc etc...

 ....or even Lee Power? He has, in the face of enduring criticism from fans, brought some order to our affairs. The di Canio days may have been fun, the McCrory days the opposite....both would probably have ruined our club. Power has brought sustainability. No we haven't had the on-field success we long for. Yes he probably underestimated what it would take to get that  success. But we have a club. And now we have a football team that may bring us success too.
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« Reply #43 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 08:35:21 »

....or even Lee Power? He has, in the face of enduring criticism from fans, brought some order to our affairs. The di Canio days may have been fun, the McCrory days the opposite....both would probably have ruined our club. Power has brought sustainability. No we haven't had the on-field success we long for. Yes he probably underestimated what it would take to get that  success. But we have a club. And now we have a football team that may bring us success too.
Hundreds of Town fans would disagree but the majority of us agree with you.

Hes not the best owner but we are not in a life threatening position on life support like many clubs. We may not be ready to run marathons yet but we are lo longer waiting for a transplant, although we do visit the asthma clinic every now and again!
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« Reply #44 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 08:40:19 »

Unfortunately the problem doesn't just lie with clubs overspending,  a clubs biggest bill surely lies with the players wages, massive wage demands,  weekly wages that many of us would be happy to earn in a year.    Players need to look at themselves,  however I suppose that is human nature,   we all aim for the most we can get in life.

With the risk of being branded a commie.. It's not just football it's the way society is geared, reward the few at the expense of everyone else. It's driven by business not players. Look at Nike I read somewhere that Sterling was considering a £100 million boot deal. That's just utter craziness and drives everything else.
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